Yo! This is Jimbo,
I've just posted a couple pond pics in the general GardenWeb gallery. The pruning and clean-up needs to be tightened up a bit, but these are spur-of-the-moment shots (taken a couple days ago) and obviously aren't meant for professional publication. I haven't had a lot of free time lately anyway, which is the real reason :-).

I echo the comments about George's wonderful garden, always a pleasure to look at!
Jim

Hi:

I posted some pictures here earlier, here's a link to them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Here are the Pictures

Here's a picture of a pond I built with a bulldozer over 20 years ago. I like to get the feeling of a japanese garden but without all the 'contrivances'.
{{gwi:1008813}}
The bamboo needs trimming....as always. ;-)

Botann, very nice pic. Is that great bamboo grove growing beside the pond in moist soil? I live in the pacific northwest also, and would like a bamboo that can take some wet feet.

adoptedbygreyhounds, have you tried putting "Japanese gardens" in Google image search or at Flickr? I find this is the best way to see lots of photos on the subject. I agree it's a shame so many of the old photo links don't work anymore.

Thank you George.
I spent almost a month in England the summer of 2000. Wish I had known of your garden then.

Barrelhead, the bamboo is growing next to, but above the winter water table. Bamboo likes it wet with drainage as do most SE Asian plants. They are genetically set up for summer monsoons. They do not grow in water.

{{gwi:1008815}}

Is part of the bad history of this forum because people like botann assume everyone who isn't one of his regular posters is a complete moronic idiot?

Botann: we have known one another through the gardenweb for a number of years and I have always found your contribution quietly humble and pictures of your garden inspirational. Please ignore barrelhead who is on a mission fueled by totally opposite considerations.

Hi,
As Incognito has also remarked on barrelheads reply and also after reading his post in "do you have to be an expert" I think his only mission is to cause ill feeling.

George.

George: I also know you through these forums and you are 'super modest' about your accomplishments I also know that you don't like talking about esoteric issues. Would you be prepared to take just one part of your garden and talk about it beyond what is on your website. I am only asking this in a attempt to get this forum back on solid ground. Did you do all this work on your own? What was there before?

You'll find a lot on my site

I guess I have to take that as a 'no' George, hey? I thought it might increase the interest over here that's all. Do you have an alternative suggestion?

In my garden, path and gates

Here is a link that might be useful: Some japaneese stock

I look forward to it George. (Didn't mean to be pushy, sorry.)

George-I think that it would be great to have you break down part(s) of your gardens. I struggle with the complexity of your garden. As a whole, it all feels and looks right but the combinations and shapes and textures on a smaller scale (in views of various areas) leave me confused.
That type of information is why I keep checking this forum. That the way people learn and stay interested.

Thankyou George and Ink. Ignoring as suggested.

Are we done with the gang mentality? I guess I should have put a smiley face after my comment to botann :) ... Admittedly, a mischievous sense of humour did not translate in that post. My point being that I am aware bamboo doesn't grow "in" water and was struck (again) by how some regular members assume most non-regular posters are novice beginners.

But since some took the time to formally announce that I will henceforth be ignored, let me ask the following. Why is anyone who is perceived as challenging or disrupting the "regulars" (even on only one or two occasions) immediately labelled a troll or accused of being "fueled by totally opposite considerations"? I have made dozens of posts on this and other forums because of a genuine shared interest I have in those subjects matters. I have on occasion agreed with the oft-expressed opinion that there is a sense of exclusivity among certain regular posters on this forum, and yet this single post is cited as evidence by George and Ink of an enemy in your midst. Actually my goal is more on promoting Japanese Gardens, and encouraging that interest in others - which is why I suggested Flickr to "adopted". It is inspirational to look through the photos on that site. My original post was nothing but complimentary, supportive and encouraging.

That said, I do happen to believe that all should be welcome, that this is not the place for a private social club and I believe I am entitled to that opinion. Isn't this is a public space were people of all stages of interest share information? I don't think it's solely a place were a handful of regular posters should have private debates intended for their own amusement. That leads to the gang mentality witnessed above, whereupon internet cliques form and occasional posters, lurkers or "drop-ins" are made to feel like unwelcome outsiders. Just because someone is not a member of the frequent posters club, why under-estimate their knowledge level? Maybe if all queries are answered as though the posters experience is similar to yours, and not 'talked down' to or ignored, it will be a more enjoyable and educational forum for all.

So if some of you have hopes of driving me (like others before me) off the forum, so be it. The fact that you attempt to do this, only speaks to the kind of power/control issues at work here (I disagreed with Inkognito on one single occasion, and he now vocally labels me a troublemaker - fragile ego indeed). No single group owns this forum. Anyone is entitled to visit and occasionally I will post - usually in a supportive and encouraging role. I have learned from some of you, and will continue to do so. However, I promise not to ask any more questions of botann for fear I will get another introductory lesson on the rudimentary basics of bamboo. But as I said, it was a very nice pic. He (or she) has got a lovely garden.

I agree with "barrelhead", there are several cliques on here, something probably to be expected on any chat group but completely out of place for a group of folks supposedly "passionate" about gardening...the snotty attitude just doesn't fit.

I've pretty much given up on meaningful discussions on this group. We've got a few so-called "professionals" who want elitist discussions but can't even provide a (customary) portfolio of their own work, which is highly suspicious.

What's even more amusing is, the "pros" can't even agree with each other. I see one in here spouting new-age sentiments about Japan continually and another saying Japanese concepts are useless for results. It's comical.
Yet both will tag-team up against others.

Then there are others who post some pics and say they want "discussion", but do not. Evidently the slightest comment beyond a generic praise arouses resentment, and no communication follows. That's not a discussion group, folks, it's more like a waste of everybody's time. Maybe people should post their pics with the caption, "no comments but wow, please".

Posts here tend to hang for weeks.
I've tried to continue discussions on several, but it ends up with me having the last post and nobody following. If I just wanted to see my words in print with no exchange, I'd type myself notes and not join a garden list :-)

There's something seriously wrong with this group. For gardeners, we've got some serious attitude problems.
I'm afraid the good old days are gone where intelligent discussion was the usual. Check out the 1995 posts and you'll see what I mean. And I don't buy the cop-out used often here now, that "outsiders" ruined the group. Outsiders weren't needed to do that, the truth is, this group disintegrated from within.
I will continue to browse this group from time to time for one reason only- I garden and enjoy talking to fellow gardeners. But if posts continue to hang and people don't want to discuss ideas when they post their pics, I'll be gone like so many others have left already. What reason is there to stick around?
Jim

And you two don't see ANY connection between your posts and the dynamic?

No, I do not Ink. But, let's talk about the dynamic of your posts. I took the time to search your username. One is better able to draw conclusions about your character from the 1299 post results (65 pages) than of my character from the 12 results (one page) that show when my username is searched. Wouldn't you agree? After reading only a fraction of your abundant words on the gardenweb site, it is glaringly evident that, with all respect, you are a hypocrite of astonishing proportions. I had no trouble at all finding a plethora of your posts on a variety of forums to be consistently provocative and oftentimes, critical in nature. I could make links to specific posts (in the landscape design forum and the garden writers forum to name only two) but I have neither the time nor the inclination to formally challenge your apparent need to intellectually dominate the forums to which you subscribe. I'll let others do their own due diligence with regard to your extensive posting history. Suffice to say, the facts indicate that it is you who is motivated by personal "considerations" and seem consistently unhappy with what you find on these forums. In contrast, I have complained only about the subject I address above. No other posts by me have been in the slightest negative or contradictory. The limited scale of my posts over the past several years indicate that if I am "fueled" by anything, it is a modest interest in Japanese gardens and not an emotional compulsion to try and participate in self-serving debate or to provoke others. And interestingly, in respect to the one subject that motivated me to speak up, it is mostly you who have objected, perhaps because you know that you are guilty of being the very type of individual I am referring to. You clearly have an emotional fixation with intellectual debate, and you are entitled to it. Enjoy that. But perhaps before you go slinging your judgements at those you see as a threat to your elitist forum domination or implying that it is the attitude of others that has made this forum less than it could be, you should remember that your posts are archived on this site. It is not hard for us to uncover the consistent and true signifying traits of your character. 'Nuff said. My point is made. I'll leave the final word to you.

Oh, for Pete's sake, here we go again. Most un-zen-like.

Can you guys please take this endless p***ing contest somewhere else? (Your personal emails, for example, would be more appropriate.) Where are your manners and your civility? You wouldn't say theses things at someone's dinner table, would you?

I am the original poster and this was meant to be a thread about seeing other people's work and for enjoying Japanese gardens. Please confine your posts to that subject matter.

Ink writes: "And you two don't see ANY connection between your posts and the dynamic?"

Sure, I'm guilty when clowns like you try to provoke me. How's that for an admission :-))).
You know, Ink, for a guy supposedly wanting elite "landscaping"(tm) discussions on this forum, I did some backtracking on your history of posting as Barrelhead suggested, and sure enough, your public posting sure has plenty of naive thoughts about Japan and Japanese culture. Have you really any exposure to Japanese people or is your faithful guide a couple of Alan Watts's books on zen?
You amuse me with your posturing.

Adoptedbygreyhounds writes:
"I am the original poster and this was meant to be a thread about seeing other people's work and for enjoying Japanese gardens. Please confine your posts to that subject matter."

Ah, therein lies one of the problems I mentioned earlier. People may post pics, but they really don't want any feedback other than high praise. I guess suspicion is the rule here. It's almost impossible to get any discussion going on garden techniques and ideas. I've tried myself and it's like I enter a black hole. So the fault isn't folks not trying, it's a prevailing lack of good will.
The biggest problem I see isn't the public p***ing here, which is typical of internet groups anyway, it's more problematic than that. It's simply a lack of ANY content.

And strangely enough, all the sentiments about zen and shinto through the years aren't helping anyone either. That ought to be revealing in itself. I always try to poke a bit at the ones who spout the most about zen, buddhism, shinto, spirituality, etc, to see what they really have. Invariably, one's true character comes out very quickly, and it's not very attractive :-). Zen indeed.
I'm sure these comments will be very popular with the group, but something needs to be said.

Since I'm not obeying adoptedbygreyhounds's wishes here, I'll quit. Those who understand the situation will be in sync with what I said above.
Those who are posturing, if the shoe fits, it must be yours.