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Stone spirit
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Posted by DonPylant z8TX (My Page) on Sat, Jul 2, 05 at 18:24
| This is kind of "out there" but should prove interesting. In placing stones in a Japanese style garden, 7 stones were selected and reserved for a lawn area arrangement. After they were arranged and set, two residents said they saw a spirit in the main stone of the largest grouping, and requested the stones be moved into an arrangement that was much less pleasing to me. They showed me the face of a very old man in the stone. I really studied these stones and never saw this before it was placed, so I did what they asked.
Along with everyone's comments, my questions are: Should the stones have been moved based on the residents' request? If there is a spirit in the stone, was it there all along? |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Stone spirit
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- Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
Sat, Jul 2, 05 at 19:31
| I think there could be a lot of factors here. At first I suspected that the stones were in your garden & that the two residents were a pair of nutty neighbours - & in that case my inclination, unless I was on especially friendly terms with them, would be to ignore them. One the other hand if you were doing commercial landscaping work in, say, the garden of an apartment building, I'd be inclined to ask the landlord what outcome he wanted. In any case, even after you'd moved the stone, presumably the face & the spirit were still there: so what really bothered them was the direction it was facing? It sounds like some sort of fung seui situation. It reminds me (a bit) of some friends of ours who employed a Filipina girl to house clean once a week. One day our friends bought a rather curiously carved wooden statuue as a decoration for their living room. When the girl arrived and saw it for the first time she was terror-struck. She said there was an outpouring of evil from it. She was so frightened that she refused to even come into their apartment. They were very fond of her, so after that, on cleaning days, they made sure it was out of sight, in a locked closet. |
RE: Stone spirit
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There is no doubt that you did the right thing by moving the offending rock.
It is not uncommon for rock arrangements with a deep meaning in one culture to be used elsewhere merely for ornament: I offer the innukshuk as an example. Consequently it is arrogant to assume that those with different sensibilities from your own are nuts.
May I ask a question in return? What was it that made the seven rock arrangement pleasing to you in the first place, did you arrange them just like a photograph you saw somewhere or was there an emotional input ( a feeling) telling you that the positions etc, were just right? |
RE: Stone spirit
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- Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
Mon, Jul 4, 05 at 23:34
| People with different sensibilities from our own can certainly be nuts. Some ancient peoples had sensibilities so different from our own that for them, human sacrifice had a 'deep cultural meaning'. Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo doubtless had sensibilities different from (most of) us too. Doubtless political correctness wants to compel us respect all 'sensibilities', no matter how nutty, but I should have thought that it merely demonstrates that political correctness is both arrogant and nuts? |
RE: Stone spirit
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| It is certainly worth considering the unconscious associations a stone evokes. In a garden we are trying to evoke a sense of tranquility. If a stone suggests unpleasant shapes then it can destroy the desired feeling. What is unpleasant is open to debate though. Your 'old man' stone could look right if placed in an arrangement designed to remind us of fortitude - say with a very horizontal 'wind blown' pine it becomes a hermit battling the elements with bhuddha-like tenacity. Or maybe not - the stone decides at the end of the day ;-) |
RE: Stone spirit
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Your "unconscious associations" is an excellent phrase because it may well be the instability of a stone (not enough in the ground) that is disturbing, yet we don't know why and we call it something else.
This is a point of view or, shall we say 'opinion', that is meant to further this enquiry and if I am called to justify it, as if I were making a statement to a judge (name withheld) then I shall participate no further.
I believe that it is possible to make a valuable contribution to a discussion such as this, one that invokes such notions as "the stone decides", without paying so much attention to dotting the "i's". Remember Ricky?
As I said, it is arrogant to assume that those with a different view from our own are nuts, which, m'lud, is not the same as saying that we should not discriminate against criminals or dangerous psychopaths be they Canadian or Dr Crippin. |
RE: Stone spirit
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| Don, What you are asking about is highly personal in nature. If your clients wanted a new arrangement, then of course you must give them what they want. How do the stones of the world end up where they do? Is there some deeper, cosmic intent that put them that way? Someone told me once that the manner in which you set up a garden (or anything else in your life) is a complete relfection of the spirit or intent that you have inside you. I think that's a pretty fair assessment. Garden design is as much an innate feeling as it is technique. PF |
RE: Stone spirit
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| INKognito, this placement was originally based on the "islands in the sea" theory for this style of kare-sansui, but with the idea that it should also look as if it naturally occurred in actual scale. The main group of 3 was placed in a scalene triangle. The group now features the "spirit" more prominent with the attending stones almost equally spaced from its base. Thanks for causing me to review the reasoning behind the design. This should happen more often! Herb, I looked up Karla and Paul to see if I should know who they are. I promise to try not to murder any landscapes!!! Agreed, we must not judge all sensibilities by our own ideals, yet the goal here was to create a kare-sansui arrangement in the Japanese style. That was the driving concept behind the placements. PlantFreak, the stones were rearranged, although not very aesthetically. Still, do you think the spirit was there all along, or did it arrive after it was placed? (ps: send some more Japan photos!) |
RE: Stone spirit
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| Don, I wish I could answer that last question, but it is beyond my mind and delves into the supernatural/religious experience. Perhaps I would offend to say more on this forum since this is decidedly a secular place. Still, gardening is a spiritual pursuit for me, and Japanese gardens are all firmly based in ideas beyond the mundane. I would say that everything contains its own intent (spirit) and that intent combined with the intent of the gardener creates the overall aesthetic. The unfortunate thing is that in a consumer driven society, such ideas are trivialized by the mass marketing of the likes of feng shui and the endless array of new age self-help-isms. Getting back to gardens, I've seen some that were laid out in mindless patterns (go to any new development and witness the "landscaping" contractors install), and others that were so perfect I didn't ever want to leave them! In the end, the product of a garden is the process of technique and knowledge about a place and the plants that will live there, all interwoven with the invisible intent of the gardener and everything they garden with. More photos coming soon. PF |
RE: Stone spirit
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PF,
how absolutely refreshing to hear the depth of your gardening pursuit and your perceptions. I can only hope that people will read this over and over, - and again before they begin the days gardening.
thank you
edzard |
RE: Stone spirit
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| plantfreak, you wrote: I've seen some that were laid out in mindless patterns (go to any new development and witness the "landscaping" contractors install), and others that were so perfect I didn't ever want to leave them! Since Im a newbie myself, I would love to hear more about the "mindless" patterns, and also about the other stonegroupings that are soo perfect :) Perhaps u even got photos? Is this karensansui, or just any stone grouping? /Henrik |
RE: Stone spirit
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| Henrik, I guess I went and opened up my mouth again and said more than I intended. Please don't read too much into what I say. The reference to "mindless patterns" mainly comes from my experience in the USA, not Japan. When I lived in Florida I was appalled at the endless new developments popping up everywhere (often in my favorite woods and fields), and the stupid landscapes that contractors put in after building a house. That's all I meant. Time willing I will send some shots of gardens I like here in Japan. "My" own is just getting started, and since it's a rental house (who would be crazy enough to buy a house in Japan?) it's not really "mine". To wit, I have to work around what already exists, good or bad! PF |
RE: Stone spirit
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| Henrik, your garden is going so well. Keep sending updates on what you have done. PlantFreak, Henrik is one of us who is making exceptional use of this forum. Don't look now, but the system is working! Inspiring, desu ne? To echo edzard's comments on your perception, you are one of the philosopher poets of this forum. I am ignorant, why would one not want to buy a house in Japan? |
RE: Stone spirit
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| Don, thanks for the kind comments. The reason not to buy a house here is that after the bubble burst in the 90's the real estate market took a dive. Today a house depreciates the minute you set foot in it, not unlike a when you buy a car in the states. The land maintains its value, but the house doesn't. So unless you're staying the long term, it's not an investment, it's a loss! That's a pretty tough reality. PF |
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