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linnea2

'Framing' a view, in Japanese

linnea2
18 years ago

Is there an all-encompassing word or name for deliberately framing a view

weather with trees, stones or structures?

Or would it be a different word or name for each case?

I was hoping someone on this forum knows

and would be very grateful for an answer.

I'd like to research this particular garden arrangement

and a name always helps.

Comments (15)

  • asuka
    18 years ago

    Shakkei is the term which literally means: borrowed scenery - the art of incorporating a near/distant view of mountains/river/trees or buildings into the garden composition

    ..not to be confused with Shakei which means: a style of topknot worn in the shape of a flower - nor shukkei which means: concentrated view, as in landscaping rockwork

    Jack

    Here is a link that might be useful: JAANUS

  • linnea2
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Why, THANK YOU Jack!
    I'm off in the pursuit of Shakkei AND Shukkei, theory and practice.
    Very effective stuff, concentrated view.
    The mere act of walking slowly, setting off small visual explosions.

    I may even consider Shakei, since it's really too hot for unbridled hair!
    Again, thanks!

  • asuka
    18 years ago

    LOL - you're welcome....you know, I can never get my Jpn pronunciation straight, nor my Jpn etiquette .. as soon as I start to strip down to my speedo's ,I invariably get ejected from the chashitsu! - what's THAT about ??!!

    Jack

  • linnea2
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Gesundheit! Sounds like allergies to me.
    I grow Shiso (excuse ME!)
    I mean Perilla.
    Otherwise strictly Japanese movies, and the delightful web site "Engrish.com"
    I can feel an ejection coming on...

  • edzard
    18 years ago

    If I may refine the definitions somewhat:
    Shukkei: imitation of a famous location through miniaturization or shrinken version of the spot.

    Shakkukei: compression or concentration of spatial elements

    Shakkei: the device or means by which a view or object is incorporated, of which there are four different designations-
    rinshaku/adjacent,
    enshaku/distant,
    gyoushaku/upward
    and fushaku/downward borrowing.
    edzard

  • linnea2
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Yes, I looked up "Shakkei" on the JAANUS link Jack provided.

    Possibly what I'm looking for is more of a Chinese method? Using a "window"
    formed by a structure, or by pruning a pine "around" a certain view
    to cast it in focus?

    This could apply to one small plant or a distant view.
    I'd like to find pictures of such "framing" methods.
    I have one I took at Stonecrop Gardens in NY that would illustrate,
    but I'd have to post in the gallery, not having a web album.
    Thanks for the further details.

  • edzard
    18 years ago

    perhaps I am confused in what you are searching for or why as it may affect the response.

    Shakkei originated from China. The aspect of which you are thinking in terms of 'windows' is called 'leaky windows'.
    However this is (later) further developed in Japan, by separating the implements of 'capturing alive' of the view.
    Reading Teiji Itoh, Space and Illusion may give more insights as he uses the terms mentioned above and references by technique, ie: to frame by roof, to frame with trunks, etc.
    Garden as Architecture may also provide insight.

    Pine is normally not used to frame a view, and I suspect it was just an easy example, since the foliage matters not, yet the trunk does, which would be framing by trunks.

    I also suspect that these 'window' applications can not be catalogued, since the variations are absolutely endless.

  • inkognito
    18 years ago

    Wasn't this the question?
    "Is there an all-encompassing word or name for deliberately framing a view
    weather with trees, stones or structures?
    Or would it be a different word or name for each case?"
    see edzards posts above for the answer.
    The question then takes off at a tangent disregarding this erudite answer, so, will the real question please stand up?

  • asuka
    18 years ago

    Linnea2, I think I understand what you mean with regards to pruning branches (from above and below) to frame a view..that's how I would also prune a tree to create an assymetrical opening to create a 'window' effect (depending on it's proximity to the viewing platform)

    The trunks, will create the vertical framing - but the term I believe, is the same: Shakkei. The sub-headings are merely confirming the direction from which the view is 'borrowed', as you already saw listed at that site. I don't think it matters whether the view is framed using (typically) stones, trees, or part of a building including the eaves

    If you're also interested in Chinese Gardens, then Maggie Keswick's 'The Chinese garden' is a good place to start.. and in addition to Itoh, Kazuhiko Fukuda, is also a 'must read', particularly if you're interested in stone setting and so on

    Jack

  • linnea2
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Edzard, I think and live my gardens constantly, obsessively you might say.
    I've noticed what happens when a portion is framed, in the way I'm trying to describe,
    it's a visual feast! Wherever I can, I want to incorporate this concept,
    so I'm interested in any precedents that might apply, Japanese or otherwise.
    That's the what and why as well as I can put it.

    The phrase "Leaky windows" goes in the book, thank you!
    Along with "Capturing alive"
    Some words are like pictures and help as much.

    Is "Gardens as Architecture" a book? I searched under Teiji Itoh.
    That's another liberating set of words! Gardens being by nature un-natural.
    Thus all the work!
    "Space and Illusion" appears, in the limited peek you get on Amazon,
    to address Japanese art and history generally?

    You're already giving me new vocabulary, which breeds the imagery I'm looking for.
    That's better than a catalogue, thanks!

    Yes Jack, "Shakkei" definitely merits study, the whole concept is fascinating!
    I will look up your book recommendations as well.
    Thanks for all you help!

    Here's the picture I was talking about. "Shakkei"?

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • edzard
    18 years ago

    Linnea2,
    I would strongly suggest that the word 'capture alive' not be used as it is very derogatory for many reasons and was used only in an etymological sense. 'For me' this would be a leaky window, that leaks in a view.

    (all)
    When one is pruning above, below, wherever, to hide a particular part of a view the terminology is mikiri. There are other parameters and this view (eventually) needs pruning.
    When one is allowing a view to be revealed, it is meigakure. Again other parameters need to be considered, though this is 'revealed' and partially hidden.

    This picture, however, for me is not a form of shakkei, as I see no device akin to the view which 'brings in' the view. This does not even approximate the 4km to 8km average for what a 'distant' view term has been applied to. Not to be contentious, rather informative, trunks also 'bring in' horizontal elements. On the 'stretching to see what others see' side, shakkei 'from above' is used as indicated by the darkness that allows the mind to be emptied (in part the objective of the 'from above').

    Perhaps someone could review the photo and indicate how and/or where, what, the shakkei 'device' of borrowing the view is?

    and apologies to Jack, as the references for the 4 types of shakkei were only reprinted and released on April 8th (if I remember correctly) and I rarely go back to see what new updates have been placed on Jaanus. However the point behind listing the references on this board, were to emphasize with kindness that devices are needed in the midplane of view, that 'enable' the view borrowed to be incorporated. iow's, it is not just a view or a view that is 'framed' in the western sense by drawing a line around an object.

    the picture presented has a mid-plane of water and some floating pieces... once again I apologize if I can not see the connection to shakkei beyond the English wording of 'to frame'... I still do not see with what device akin to the view of 'tree', by which the view is brought in. Unless it is the wood planking, being wood?
    uncontentiously,
    edzard

  • inkognito
    18 years ago

    Perhaps someone could review the photo and indicate how and/or where, what, the shakkei 'device' of borrowing the view is?
    In spite of the foregoing: the notion of borrowing a distant view to bring it into the more immediate scene is difficult to understand. I guess it is a device to add the illusion of more to a confined space. The picture above (the reality may have a different effect) does the opposite by transporting the viewer out through the window to the distant tree. This could also work as an illusion but perhaps it has a different name as it doesn't seem to fit the descriptions offered.

  • linnea2
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Edzard, you're going now where I can't follow, my interest being rather crude
    and utilitarian, not scholarly. I'm afraid some of this is wasted on me.

    I think I grasp the "view to bring in the view" concept, if it means "echoing"
    a distant view with a smaller, close-up arrangement that resembles the former
    in shape or outlines.
    The "enabling" devices in the midplane have so far eluded me.
    I'd have to have those pointed out to me in a picture or a real view
    and don't wish to tax your forbearance that far.

    This picture wasn't intended as an example of the above, (assuming I got that),
    but of, yes, simply "framing a view".
    Shakkei may be a bit beyond my comprehension and ambition.

    "Leaky windows" are probably right up my alley, though there is a spot where
    a true "distant view" could be brought in if I could pull it off.

    Does "Leaky window" convey the same note of levity in Japanese
    as it does in English, or is that a result of literal translation?

    I'll refrain from "capturing alive" but would like to explore Garden as Architecture
    if it's a book and available in English.

    Thank you for deigning to instruct though this student can't really absorb the lesson.

  • edzard
    18 years ago

    Frightening, then we have utilitarian in common... as my use and knowledge is entirely utilitarian, needing the information for building gardens, which from a practical sense needs to stay utilitarian. Any semblance of instruction or lessoning is entirely unintended and certainly not by intent, nor am I seeking students or otherwise.

    However, you are researching and authoring a book by all accounts, and I felt I should extend the short version of a long road of searching which has already been partly done to share what has been found so far.

    Inaji wrote The Garden as Architecture and is a Kodansha press. Itoh's Space and Illusion is specifically about shakkei. Also by Kodansha I believe.

    Leaky windows is a phrase translated from the Chinese, not Japanese, I would leave it to your instruction to impart me with enough knowledge to comprehend what 'levity' is implied or related from the English.

    and chuckling, there was no lesson as there can be no instruction as people only accept information when they are ready of their own accord.
    Though I notice that if you understand 'echo' then you understand well enough what enabling devices are..... etc. etc. -sorry to waste your time on things you are not ready to absorb yet, however, only my 2 first sentences were specifically directed to you, while the rest would have you included if you so chose..
    manus manum lavat.........

  • linnea2
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Edzard, we both share "utilitarian" with rice farmers, no fear warranted.
    I always thought a touch of crudity a good thing lest things get too serious.
    And you can always go wash your hands...

    Heaven forbid! No "book", I should have said "note-book", again, no fear!
    My note-book translates directly into plying spade and rake.

    English is my second language, I find "leaky window" in this context
    mildly funny, connoting perhaps a rickety structure or, at least, something
    that doesn't quite perform the purpose for which it was built.
    My house is 150 years old, all the windows leak, the ventilation
    is refreshing and prevents mold.
    It is fitting that my gardens should match.

    Inaji's The garden as Architecture IS available in Eglish, though out of print.
    I will try to hunt it down, it looks fascinating, Thank you!

    Willy nilly, we all aquire students, if briefly and unintentionally.
    Again, i see no cause for real alarm, though it does give one pause
    to consider the rings in the water where our little stone fell.

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