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Dobei wall

Posted by azpatriot66 8b AZ (My Page) on
Mon, Aug 8, 05 at 13:12

Herb,

I like the idea in the picture you linked for me. In thinking of this type of wall should I look at removing a course or two of brick currently in place and setting tiles (probably half/tiles. Or just painting the wall itself a color typical with the period.

Regards

Erik


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Dobei wall

  • Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 8, 05 at 14:59

Eric - If I were doing it, I'd try paint. I'd use the sort of outdoor paint that we have on the floor of our front porch - it has a rough surface because it's formulated to be walked on, but I think it would look O.K. on a wall too.

Here's another picture of a wall. I like the way the strip of wall at the bottom appears to have been left unpainted (if paint is what was used).

Click here


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RE: Dobei wall

I like the picture Herb, I like also the fact if I go this route it saves alot of money, leaving me only the dividing fence to put up across the yard. A light earth-tone color as in the picture and perhaps the bottom and cap painted black would do the trick (right now the caps are light red and of course the block itself is grey. I am stripping the yard over the next 2 weeks with the wall and the dividing fence being the projects following. Here is a good question for the forum to ponder and is the one that has been driving me nuts, the material for the dividing wall. Block is out, which leaves cedar, bamboo, or a 3rd option that I am seriously thinking about. There is avalible high quality plastic lumber (I think when I typed plastic lumber some long ago monk rolled over in his grave). This stuff is alot more expensive then wood, however it can be worked the same as cedar, has any color built into it, and comes with a 50 year warrenty never to fade, rot etc. Cedar is a great water bearing wood, but here in Southern Arizona we can have 20F wet winters and 110F no rain summers, so wood really get's pushed to the limit here. What are everyone's thought's... would using this material be innovative and adaptive to the conditions here or down right blasphemy. My concern is I want it to look right most importantly; not having to change a fence every 7-8 years is just a bonus

Here is a link that might be useful: Plastic wood Fence


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RE: Dobei wall

  • Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 8, 05 at 16:26

I wonder if anybody can tell us how the wall that I posted above was constructed - i.e. what it's made of? The unpainted strip at the bottom of the wall looks (to me) rather like plain concrete blocks.


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RE: Dobei wall

Herb,

The more I look at the wall it looks to me like block that has been stuccoed and then painted. If it was all brick and just painted I would suspect grout lines would be visible. Now if this is an original wall from centuries past I think we would have to assume mud or another material; however if this is newer or a restoration project it sure has the look of plaster or stucco on block and then painted.


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RE: Dobei wall

This is at Daitokuji -stone base, clay wall with a mud slip coat and tile.
did you wish for the construction blueprint?


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RE: Dobei wall

No thanks Edzard,

Appreciate the offer but I don't like that one enough to tear down the wall that I currently have. Just from the picture I could use a texture over the blocks and then paint. What is your opinion of the materials for the dividing yard fence.

Erik


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RE: Dobei wall

  • Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 8, 05 at 19:16

Erik - The picture on the Plastic Wood Fence site shows, behind the fence sample, a wall of very similar colour to the Dobei examples that we've been looking at.

The material sounds very durable and that's a good thing, but I can't say that I like the colour of the fence sample in that picture: it seems (to me) to clash with the wall colour. I think I'd prefer a more earthy colour.


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RE: Dobei wall

The plus on that plastic lumber is is comes in 7 colors, I put a link to the color pallate below. I was thinking perhaps a Cedar or Tan paneling with black 2x4 for frame?..What are your thoughts

Here is a link that might be useful: Lumber Colors


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RE: Dobei wall

chuckling,... Erik
I wouldn't take down your wall but add to it at the height it is, with a single inner roof piece at an overhanging length to be determined based on how much shade and restful atmosphere your eyes need when viewing the garden.

I havn't nor will for the moment look at the materials for dividing the yard, since in the Japanese design process you are placing too many carts before any horses you may have.

It is enough for the moment to say, "A wall or divider is needed there" and going beyond that is taking up time.
When you decide what the atmosphere is (fuzei) needed or desired in the yard, and have decided on the tree types, then the texture of the trunks, foliage combined with stone -color etc. will indicate the color and material choices.

The Japanese garden is a process, much as Aikido, with the process here often being of elimination of options,... which is why I asked you for patience (ossu), however, if you wish a hakujin garden, you are very welcome to the joys it brings.

Your costs, if the process is followed would also be vastly decreased if mitate mono were followed, etc.
with kind regards,
edzard


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RE: Dobei wall

  • Posted by Herb Victoria, B.C. (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 8, 05 at 22:00

I take it, from looking at your lumber colors link, that the fence sample that I didn't like was the Redwood.

Maybe you should base your choice on whether it looks O.K. with the color you decide on for your wall - & the Cedar or Tan both seem to look as though they match the wall colors we were looking at. Of the two I incline towards the Cedar, simply because it's the darker of the two. I quite like your Black Frame idea.


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RE: Dobei wall

Edzard,

Unfortunatly I cannot go any higher on my fence, 6ft is as high as city codes allow. If I go with the dobei wall I will have to texture and paint only. Another issue is that wall in the picture is infinatly deeper than the 4# deep slump blocks used in my wall making a cap of tile next to impossible.

Regards

Erik


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RE: Dobei wall

Erik,
the height issue was well understood, you can't add to it, and, I am not suggesting you add to the height.
I am suggesting that an inner roof be added _ under the current height, with a veneer of 'capping' _at the current height. - I see no point in building a roof for the back alley.
This way there are no alterations needed, which constitutes lost labour cost/ time and materials cost.
The depth of the wall is immaterial, from my perspective and understanding of your site. The angle though, may be changed, though again, it is probably not needed.
On the other hand, if you chose to add stone veneer on the bottom, then a marginal angle to the wall might be useful to hold 'texturing' much better. This depends on your least expensive stone for the bottom, if that is what is needed when adding the right atmosphere to the composition.
edzard


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RE: Dobei wall

I missunderstood Edzard,

Ok an overhanging angled wood frame attached to the inside of the wall. Tile over the wood verically with a horizontal cap in the back, just high enough to cover the cuurent top of the wall from eye leval.

Great Idea.

Erik


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RE: Dobei wall

You have the general idea Erik, however, not necessarily in tile either. Why not wood, bark, or split bamboo? (or other material per your imagination, budget and locality may provide? --that specifically suits the garden)
-how much money do you have by the time you get to this stage?

I'm at a loss, how this is important at the moment, since nothing has been addressed of 'needs'... considering that,
If heavily shaped and strongly barked pine are used, then perhaps tile (now what color? how deep? How many rows of caps?? the number depends on who the financier of the temple is, 5 rows is funded by the Emperor),

--what then is the garden relating to? temples? religion? is this a secular garden or a religious garden?

if it is perhaps a tea garden and if redbud tree is used, then perhaps use bark or wood roofing, if juniper -torulosa pruned to a sugi forest, then perhaps split bamboo.
(forgive me my directness, yet from where I sit you are caught up in stereotypical applications of the tired same old same old.)

If my fuzei post did not suit you, then continue organizing the typology of garden into the applicable period, yet remember, mixing periods leads to a confusing message to the viewer, and a period garden may not suit your family living needs.
--at the least in choosing a period, you could specify a range of needs. This would narrow the 'needs' field considerably.

curiousity and sympathy for the vastness of possible design choices causes me to ask, are you not starting backwards?
edzard


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RE: Dobei wall

Does anybody know the name for the wall cap that appears in Herb's picture. I am looking for that material and possibly a supplier in the U.S. for those japanese wall caps. Have not had luck yet.


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