I've only seen them referred to as 'ricebeans', rather than 'rice beans'. If what they have are really Vigna umbellata, they aren't doing anyone any favors by listing them as 'rice beans'. After all, if someone is looking for them and googles 'rice bean', all they're going to get is recipes for rice and beans.

If Baker Creek turns out to be a deadend, there are some listings at eBay for both green and brown ricebeans, see link.

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Two kinds ricebeans

The listings are found under both ricebean and rice bean, but it does complicate searches. Further complicating matters is that there is a P. vulgaris "Vining Rice Bean - (Phaseolus vulgaris)
Vining Rice Bean has small, slender, oblong white beans which are extremely popular in China, India and the Philippines. Resistant to pest attacks, it is edible in both its green and dried forms. The fragility of the dried pod makes for difficult commercial harvesting, which explains why so little reaches the market. 110 Days." and a Vigna unguiculata Rice Pea "Small white seeds are slightlyt larger than rice, and cook in 40 minutes. Very tasty. Bush plants yield well. A pre-1860 Southern cowpea"
Since Baker Creek list the Red Rice bean under Asian beans, it may be the elusive Vigna umbellata. The White Rice bean is listed with the P.vulgaris. I will be interested in their answer.

I saw both green and brown rice bean (Vigna umbellata) on ebay last night when looking for something else if this helps any.

I ordered 'Little White Rice' from Heritage Harvest Seeds, I'm thinking these are Phaseolus vulgaris correct me if I'm wrong.
Little White Rice - An old heirloom with very tiny white thin seed. Great for casseroles and other dishes where their rich taste can be appreciated. A very interesting variety that takes a long time to shell! (95 days for dry beans) Bush. They say they are extremely rare.

My question is, are they similar to 'Comtesse de Chambord'? I can't seem to find much information on them.

Annette

Sorry about the ebay thing, that's already been answered. I had read this but it had slipped my mind, well, that's the only excuse I can think of at the moment.

Farmerdilla, would the Little White Rice Beans I ordered be what you were referring to as 'Vining Rice Beans'?

Also can anyone recommend a good book on Beans, their history etc.

Annette

I have grown "Comtesse de Chambord" for several years. They are also often called rice beans and they are definitely P. vulgaris. They are very good tiny shellies but pretty labor intensive to shell. A good book on beans that I like is "Growing and Cooking Beans" by John Withee. It's about thirty years old but still good. (By the way, a really good site for buying old books is www.abebooks.com. You'll probably find this book for $1.)
Lou

a bit more upscale for books would be "Beans of New York" which is a 1931 publication with a lot of info about beans.

https://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=34&osCsid=156121f0e8183d522669c7ae27e6e7b0

DarJones

The problem with a general term like "rice bean" is that it can be - and is - applied to any bean which is small & narrow. I too was searching for Vigna umbellata for several years, and followed many false leads.

The "Red Rice Bean" carried by Baker Creek was one of them. While it is advertised as V. umbellata, it is in fact a red-seeded cowpea (V. unguiculata). A good short-season variety for the North, and a pretty high yielder... but a cowpea.

The green and brown rice beans in the link above - while identified as V. umbellata - are also misidentified. Judging by the hilum visible on the seeds, they are just small-seeded P. vulgaris varieties... common beans.

It's not (I hope) that other beans are being intentionally misrepresented. Even when a bean is specifically identified as V. umbellata, there is no guarantee... it is often misidentified by people unfamiliar with the taxonomy of the species. This page shows the characteristics of the "true" rice bean, V. umbellata. Note the length of the hilum (seed scar) - nearly half the length of the seed. The flowers resemble those of adzuki bean; yellow, and borne in large numbers on long spikes, as opposed to the paired flowers so common on cowpeas.

Oh, and even the real rice bean can be misrepresented. I've seen it offered as a "pole Adzuki".

I eventually found a commercial source for the real V. umbellata here, from the non-profit ECHO, out of Florida. It proved to be a rampant, fast-growing, heavily-branched pole bean that quickly covers everything within reach. It is, in fact, used as a cover crop in the Tropics, because it smothers weeds.

As it turns out, there is a very good reason for the scarcity of seed for the true rice bean in the U.S. Like many tropical beans, V. umbellata is photo-period sensitive, and will not bloom until the daylength approaches 12 hours. That is mid-September... which for most gardeners, does not leave enough time for the beans to develop before frost. There may be cultivars out there that are day-neutral, but I have yet to find any information supporting this.

For the few fortunate enough to live in warm sub-tropical areas, rice beans could be an interesting crop. Before eating them, however, be sure to research their toxicity, and to use proper methods of preparation.

Thanks, Zeedman for once again enlightening us. Your vast bean knowledge is truly impressive and very welcome here. Any plans on a book?

Lou

Hey Zeedman, that Echo bookstore has a Pima Orange Lima that looks like the Dollof bean mentioned in the other thread!

They have the Nuna/Popping bean too, though you may have to be a member to get it.

Zeedman, thank you for explaining the differences between these beans, since joining this forum I've discovered I know next to nothing about beans but I'm slowly learning. I've been searching for a source for "Comtesse de Chambord" which seems to be commercially unavailable. The Little White Rice Beans I mentioned above looks similar to them from photos I've seen. Does anyone know who carries C de C or where one could buy them? Any help would be much appreciated.
This is another old heirloom bean that was quite popular in eastern Canada but now is very hard to find.

Annette

Hi, Annette,
I got my original Comtesse de Chambord online from either lebiaugerme.com or Kokopelli (terredesemences.com). Both of these are in France, but they don't seem to have a problem shipping to the US. I just checked and Kokopelli is sold out but Le Biau Germe's site says it's available. The problem is that the shipping is very expensive. I justified it as a one time expense and then save the seeds.
I think they are very tasty as tiny shellies, but like I said, time consuming to get enough to make a meal. Here's an old article from a few years back about them in Mother Earth News by William Woys Weaver: www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/2006-04-01/Three-Rare-Beans.aspx.

Lou

This post will be a little OT, but to reply to some previous comments...

I earlier missed the question about bean books. I agree with Llaz's recommendation of "Growing and Cooking Beans" by John Withee. It has been recently reprinted, and is available from the Seed Savers exchange... to whom he gave his bean collection.

Another good book is "The Bean Bible, A Legumaniac's Guide to Lentils, Peas, and Every Edible Bean on the Planet!" by Aliza Green. A rather pompous title... especially given that it does not cover beans of the tropics, such as the one we are discussing. It does a great job, however, of covering legumes common to the Temperate zones. Tons of bean recipes.

While not strictly about beans, I highly recommend William Weaver's book "Heirloom Vegetable Gardening". He devotes considerable time to the history of many heirloom beans... and then goes on to discuss all common vegetables, and many uncommon ones. One of the most enjoyable & educational garden books I have ever read.

No intention of writing a book of my own. ;-)

Happy, ECHO is a source for quite a few hard-to-find seeds including pigeon peas (another short-day legume). I buy Winged Bean & Moringa from them each year.

The photo of ECHO's Nunas is especially intriguing, showing such rich diversity. The various beans might have been combined for the photo, but I've seen more than one photo of Andean crops (usually of root crops) with different types & colors planted & harvested together. We, on the other hand, are really obsessed with separating things by their differences. Strikes me as a commentary on our culture... a topic for another place.

Lou thanks for the seed sources, be they far away I'll file them away in case I can't find a closer local source.

Zeedman thanks for the additional book title hopefully I can find one of the books mentioned above. Looks like some interesting reading.

Annette

I got a response to my email from Pam at Bakers Creek today. The red rice beans in their catalog are in fact Vigna uumbellata - very interesting!

Lou

Annette,
I've got Comtesse de Chambord rice beans if you want them. Email me.
Remy

Remy, email on it's way :o)

Annette

Zeedman, Re: 12-hr day-length...

Have you ever heard of anyone artificially changing the day-length with heavy black fabric or anything? Yes, it would have to be for a fairly small crop.

Just curious.

Sue

Interesting ... this may be a bean that can thrive in Phoenix summers, which resemble Pakistan summers.

We don't get frost until late November, or later, which gives it plenty of time to grow.

I only have a few 'Little White Rice' beans which I want to grow in pots for seed, how many can I plant in something the size of a 10-12 in. hanging basket? This way I can take them into the greenhouse if the weather is not cooperating.

Annette