Return to the Beans, Peas & Other Legumes Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Posted by aftermidnight Z8 V. Island B.C. (My Page) on
Wed, Apr 23, 14 at 13:54

This seed is quite old but the fellow I got them from did a germination test and got several to germinate so I'm going to give it a go.
It looks like there are several different varieties in the mix. The seed is 10 years old bought at a farmers market high in the Andes, in Ecuador.
I saved the germination instructions I think Darrel posted here on the forum, so will try this method. I think they're pole varieties but won't know for sure until they're growing, that is if I can get some of them to germinate. Wish me luck I'm going to need it :). Annette


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Don't be surprised if they turn out to be runner beans, which are very typical in the Andes. Those look like some runner beans I have seen in Chile. If those don't make it, I can send you some from Chile that are fresher.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Thanks Shuffles, he called them runner beans but I wondered as I've never seen runners the size of pinto beans before. Just in case I am successful I'll not grow the runner I was planning on growing this year. This is going to be a fun project... she says hopefully :).

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

  • Posted by drloyd 7B Western WA (My Page) on
    Thu, Apr 24, 14 at 9:43

Interesting project Annette. If you have enough seed you could sprout a couple and see if the cotyledons emerge from the soil or if the cotyledons stay in the soil and send up a sprout like a runner bean. - Dick


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

"Just in case I am successful I'll not grow the runner I was planning on growing this year"

if the plan is SGL, I'll send you some fresh seed to free up a space :)
Tatiana


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Interesting beans. I'm having trouble trying to classify the species by the appearance of the seed. The Pinto-like markings are atypical of any runner beans I've seen, as is the cut short appearance of some of the larger solid colored beans. But then, some of the seeds are fat enough to be runners... and if they are runners, that color is unusual, even after you account for aging.

The results of the germination test (hypogeal vice epigeal) will be interesting. Should be a fun project regardless... I'm looking forward to your results. Given their origins, I would not be surprised if the beans turn out to be epigeal, in which case they could be nunas. There is also a fair chance that they will be daylength sensitive, regardless of the species.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Before I get into this in earnest I'm trying to germinate a few my way. Damp paper towel in a plastic sandwich container in the greenhouse, on a heating mat at night, turned off during the day. if this works I'll do the rest the same way, if not I'll try the other way. Here's another picture with a penny to give a better idea of their size. There was also a couple of corn kernels in the mix top left.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Maybe this could help with the search...

The photo of P. vulgaris land races from Nueva Granada (which corresponds to modern Colombia, Ecuador, Panama, and Venezuela) has at least 2-3 that look similar to some in your mix.

I'm wondering if your friend called it a "runner bean" in the sense that P.vulgaris "pole beans" are commonly called runner beans in spanish and french.

The photo is from this paper: 1991. Singh SP, Gepts P, Debouck DG. Races of common bean (Phaseolus vulgaris L., Fabaceae). Econ Bot 45: 379-396. Abstract @ http://www.springerlink.com/content/672536w206135416/

Here is a link that might be useful: Abstract: Landraces of Latin American common beans


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Tatiana, thanks for posting this, some of them do look alike. I'm really hoping I can get some of them to germinate, fingers crossed.
So in South America pole beans are referred to as runners, I've come across this in other places too.
I have enough SGL's to keep me going but thanks for the offer :).

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Nice link, Tatiana. At least superficially, this info increases the odds that the beans are P. vulgaris.

It is interesting to see how the beans within a region tend to share traits. The contrast between Peru & Nueva Granada is striking. I find the near-spherical beans from Peru to be fascinating, especially since many of them are Nunas (popping beans). Sure wish I could grow them here. :-(

It's possible that I grow the Chilean bean on the far right in the photo, the bean I have looks similar & is from that region. It barely begins to mature here before frost... which is really too bad, because the seed is a deep reddish purple & is wonderful as a shelly.

This post was edited by zeedman on Mon, Apr 28, 14 at 16:39


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

They're starting to germinate, so far two of the light solid colored ones, hopefully some of the others will too. I've potted these up, soon we'll know if they're hypogeal or epigeal.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

So far epigeal.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

When you have time, look up P. Dumosus (aka P. Polyanthus) and read about them.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

What have I got myself in to :), I just did a quick look at the link below. Most of the seed in the mix I have are yellow and orange so maybe... Picture of the first one that germinated just before planting, looks yellowish to me.
So far about 20 are potted up, what's the chances of them growing here in my climate? They're going in a raised bed that has a framework I can cover over if need be to extend the season. By the by the 2 corn kernels in the mix were viable, what the heck am I going to do with just 2 corn plants LOL. Annette

Here is a link that might be useful: P. polyanthus


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Good catch, Fusion, it looks highly probable. GRIN lists it under a synonym, Phaseolus dumosus Macfad., and has quite a few listed... couldn't find one with the pinto-like markings, though. Many are listed as being day length sensitive, no surprise there.

Fusion, have you ever grown any of these? To your knowledge, are there any day neutral cultivars? They sound like interesting beans, which makes me suspect that they are probably not adapted to our latitude, or they might be more widely grown. Doubly so, since GRIN lists many of them as being anthracnose resistant.

And primarily used as a shelly??? "You had me at hello" ;-)


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

If I can get these to grow here and if they turn out to be day light sensitive, what ratio of light/dark do they need. A little bigger project then getting the bracts on my poinsettia to color up, but you never know :).

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

My guess is that this is a mix of P. Vulgaris and P. Dumosus seed. No way to tell until the plants are big enough to check some traits.

I have not grown P. Dumosus, but Jim Myers at Corvallis has a few lines that he has used for breeding better adapted beans.

If you want to grow a really unusual bean, may I suggest PI 207373 which is a small black bean from Central America. It readily matures beans here in Alabama. It is resistant to races 1, 4, and 5 of fusarium plus highly resistant to rust. It is also the most heat tolerant bean I've yet grown.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Out of 60 seeds I worked with I still have a few left, I discarded a couple that looked like they'd already had it. Of the ones I put in the damp paper towel method 37 germinated the rest were duds so I tossed them. I had a little better than 50% germinate, these are now planted up in 4 packs, they germinated at the rate of one or two a day.
I've been planting them out when they get their first pair of true leaves. Now it's a wait and see how they will grow. I'm keeping a record of which seeds do what, might not come to anything but it's a fun project, not expecting great results but if one or two of them produce something, bonus:).

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

"... might not come to anything but it's a fun project, not expecting great results but if one or two of them produce something, bonus:)."

Agreed. I've grown quite a few tropical plants here which turned out to be day length sensitive, and didn't do much... like rice beans & sword beans. It's still fun & educational just getting to observe them. And who knows, you might find something which unexpectedly succeeds.

Annette, if you can prove P. dumosus will bloom & bear outside of the tropics, that would be a noteworthy achievement. I'm growing a bush hyacinth bean this year which the sender claims will produce seed in Wisconsin... if it does, that would be the highlight of my garden year. Should be a fun year for both of us. ;-)

Fusion, I think you referred me to Jim Myers once before, but my attempts to contact him via email went unanswered. I'll have to try again re: P. dumosus. Hopefully, if there is a day neutral cultivar, there is no MTA involved.

Oh, and Fusion, a comment you made above caught my eye:
"PI 207373 ...
It is also the most heat tolerant bean I've yet grown."

Even more heat tolerant than Woods Mountain Crazy Bean?


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

zeedman, WMCB is not even in the ballpark. This bean is so much more heat and disease tolerant than Rattlesnake that it is hard to describe. It makes small beans that are not much good as snaps and too small to be good shellies. I would love to have a bean with the size and flavor of Fortex that is also highly heat and disease tolerant. This is why I am working on a cross with Fortex. I planted a 40 ft long row of Fortex alternating with Oaxacan 5-1 seed and hope that a bee made cross will give me something to grow next year.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

zeedman, I finally got my thinking cap on and realized that there is a very easy comparison for the heat tolerance of the Oaxacan 5-1 beans. Woods Mtn Crazy Beans shut down in the intense heat and humidity of mid-summer here in NorthWest Alabama. Cowpeas go into high gear in the same conditions. Oaxacan 5-1 is comparable to cowpeas. I have a few hundred seed if you would like to grow them, just don't expect a commercial bean, they are valuable for breeding, not so much for eating.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Wow, that is impressive. Hopefully those traits can be carried across into something more useful. Such heat tolerance is probably not of much use to a Wisconsin gardener though... I tend to select for tolerance at the other end of the thermometer. ;-)


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

I culled out a couple more plants that looked iffy, the ones planted out (32) are now starting to climb. I also have a couple of late starters growing in the greenhouse. Now it's going to be a wait and see what happens.....

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

I'm down two more, found them pulled out on top of the soil. The rest are climbing at different rates, the tallest is now 4' and still climbing.
We know that they are epigeal and now we know at least some of them aren't day length sensitive as flowers are starting to form on a few of them. Here's a picture of a flower bud and the bean (#19) it came from. This particular bean produced a plant that starts forming flowers right from the bottom of the plant. Annette

This post was edited by aftermidnight on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 11:34


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

So far the flowers on the five plants that have them are dropping without setting beans, I wonder if they need a specific pollinator or maybe day length and temperature have something to do with it. Not a sign of flowers on the others, still it's going to be an interesting experiment. I planted the last two plants in the greenhouse with my BJBB's one has started to flower the other hasn't.

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Of the plants that are flowering, only one (from seed #2) is producing beans, minuscule at the moment but they're there. The leaves on these vines are not big by any means but some of the vines have topped 8 ft. So it looks like I'll be able to collect seed from one of the plants, hopefully more :).

Seed #2


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

One of the seeds #37 planted in the greenhouse is flowering and I can see one or two beans forming, the seed coat has a slightly different pattern :) it has turned into quite a vigorous vine, the heat in the greenhouse, even with the door open might have something to do with it, some afternoons it's in the 100+ degree range. So far this has been a fun project.

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

This is what #2 bean pod looks not #19, 4" long at present with purple mottling. I have a few bean pods forming on several vines but most of the vines aren't producing flowers, at least not yet. Annette

This post was edited by aftermidnight on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 18:33


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

I took a picture this morning of where I'm growing these beans, I think it might be possible to enclose this frame in plastic if need be to prolong the growing season. Half of them are flowering and most are producing a few beans but nary a flower on the other ones yet. The ones in the greenhouse dropped their flowers but now that it has cooled down I'm hopeful.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

First dried on the vine seed from the pods above, taken with a flash, the second pod had 6 beans in it. Lots more pods forming on some of the vines but think the seed will turn out to be the same as this one. Still no sign of flowers on the rest.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

....definitely not a snap bean, I picked one sacrificial lamb, I steamed it along with some WMCB's for dinner tonight, the beans were just forming in the pod, they were still very small but were sweet and tasty compared to the tough as leather pod. The WMCB's on the other hand were tender and flavorful although I had to string about half of them.
I think these Andean beans must be grown for dry beans, I might try another further along as a shelly see if it keeps that sweet taste, almost the same flavor as green peas.

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

A bit OT, I planted the two corn seeds that were mixed in with the Andean beans. They didn't grow that tall and each plant only produced one cob, here's a picture does anyone know what kind of corn this is?
Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

That is a typical Andean corn type. Suggest you post a pic of it on Bishops forum and see if someone can give you a better ID. It is typical of one of the highly pigmented morado corns that is used to make chicha, a type of corn beer.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Darrel, I haven't joined that forum, so no can do :(. But thanks for the ID.
I grew it out of curiosity to see what it would produce, if anything. It's certainly is a rich color.

Annette


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

Annette, I'm curious about the DTM to dry seed that you observed with that corn. Your description makes it sound like a very short-season cultivar. It might be worth growing here if it can beat the (GM) field corn to tassel.


 o
RE: Bean Seed from a farmers market in Ecuador

The picture below was taken May 5th, I picked the cob yesterday Sept 6, 124 days?, my math might be wrong LOL. It probably wants a bit more drying but if your interested let me know :).


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Beans, Peas & Other Legumes Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here