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fusion_power

2014 growing season and varieties

fusion_power
9 years ago

Black Jungle Lima - Growing for seed to send to Sandhill. These vines are rampant and need a lot of room.

Carolina Red LIma - Growing for fresh seed. I love this variety, it is productive, healthy, and easy to shell.

Dr. Martin Lima - Growing for seed and if I get a crop will send to Sandhill.

Fortex - full row planted dense to get enough seed to send to Sandhill.

Fortex Cross - Growing these for Sandhill. I sent seed to them for 2014 and they sold out.

Gigandes - Growing in an effort to gradually develop a runner bean that can handle the heat. It is not working very well so far.

Grandma Roberts Tricolor beans - I am growing these for green beans to can. They have a delicious flavor.

Goose - need fresh seed and if I have a good crop, will send some to Glenn. My seed were 5 years old but germinated very well.

Sicitalian Black beans - These beans are large, round, very similar externally to nuna beans. The seed I have gave zero germination last year so I have them in a cell tray using a seed start method that so far looks like it will give about 30 percent viable plants.

Striped Bunch - Growing for Sandhill and to get fresh seed. These make excellent pickled beans.

Striped Hull Greasy Cutshort - Growing for Sandhill, this is my favorite greasy bean.

Sword Beans - growing for Sandhill and to get fresh seed. I've found that these beans don't germinate very well after 3 years so fresh seed are best.

Turkey Craw - Growing these to eat and to have fresh seed.

I also have a short 40 ft row of Fortex interplanted with Oaxacan 5-1 which I am hoping will cross and I have a short 25 ft row of various beans I collected during my vacation in 2012. These have various characteristics, some are highly disease tolerant blue lake bush beans, others are unusual pole beans from a farmers market in Olympia WA. I have about 10 hills of Woods Mountain Crazy Beans to increase my seed stock.

This post was edited by fusion_power on Thu, May 15, 14 at 9:17

Comments (52)

  • mav72
    9 years ago

    Here we go again. First post somehow screwed up writing on a tablet.

    That's A nice extensive list...

    These are the beans that I'm growing or trying to grow...

    Hyacinth Bean:
    Purple Moon shadow
    Greene pod with purple edging
    Green pod with white flowers and seeds

    Lima Bean: (favorite beans)
    Burpee's Big Momma
    Unknown cultivar looks similar to Florida speckled. Somebody in HI is also growing it but don't know it's name.

    Runner Bean:
    Golden Sunshine doesn't do well here but 2nd year trying...

    Winged Bean:
    Generic from neighbor
    Unknown not even sure but told was a winged bean. So far leaves match.

    Rice Bean:
    Unknown true rice bean.

    Long Bean:
    Unknown generic red seed long bean. Don't personally like the taste but my mom likes to eat them.

    Common Bean:
    Kentucky Wonder (favorite green bean)

    Cowpea:
    Black Eye Pea pole type

    Pigeon pea:
    Common variety

    Moth Bean:
    Common brown ones.. These are doing bad.. Everything's eating them... Even started them twice...

  • dlsm
    9 years ago

    fusion_power, thanks for the information on the Fortex cross.

    I would like to make a trade for some of the Fortex Cross. How about some bush " Bush Giant Red Tarka Shelly Bean" for some Fortex Cross. I like the pole varieties because my old back can't take much bending.

    Luther

  • fusion_power
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Old back Luther? I build bean trellises by taking an armful of 8 foot t-posts under one arm and walk down the rows shoving posts in the ground 2 feet deep with my strong right arm. I'm older than the hills Luther.

    I don't have your address handy so please send it to me and I'll put some seed in the mail. You can find my email address at my website. http://www.selectedplants.com

  • dlsm
    9 years ago

    fusion_power, now I understand your handle name. Got your seed today. Sent yours out today and you should get them this next week. Hope you enjoy bending over picking those beans.

    Luther

  • fusion_power
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    seed received Luther.

  • fusion_power
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I planted the last 2 rows of open space in my garden with cowpeas yesterday.

    Piggott Family Heirloom - I like these for peas and cornbread

    Yellow Ripper - very hard to find these, going to try to put them back in circulation.

    White Whipporwill - This is the original White Whipporwill, not the brown eyed version commonly seen

    Whipporwill - The speckled small seeded old Whipporwill which I have maintained since getting seed from Porter & sons in 1988.

    Hercules - These shell out a huge bowl of peas in minimum time, they are huge.

    Colossus - A crowder type with very large peas.

    I need fresh seed of all the above.

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    I had my first disappointment, the few 'Soissons Vert' seed I managed to germinate looked like they had a virus so I chucked them, I'll be coming a begging a few seeds in the fall as I really want to try this one.

    Growing 'Ryder's Best' for the first time, they have produced really sturdy, healthy seedlings, they're going in the ground this afternoon.

    'BJBB's' are happily climbing their strings in the greenhouse.

    Took a chance and planted 'Chinese Red Noodle' outside, I planted them where I last grew 'Gigandes', fingers crossed on that one.

    So far so good 'Andean/Ecuador' are starting to climb their strings.

    I finally got a few of the 'Little White Ice' (pole) beans I bought to germinate, I could only find one vender still selling this one, looks like another heading for extinction.

    I grew a sample of 'Little White Ice' from Seed Dreams, they have it listed as a bush but it looks like it's a half runner. Maybe these two are the same, time will tell.

    Others I have in are 'Emilia's Italian Pole', 'Barksdale', 'Berta Talaska', 'Grandpa Gerono's' and 'Tennessee Cut-shorts'. 'Mr. Tung's', 'Royal City Cannery' 'Purple Italian Marconi Stringless' and 'Selma Star', Russ's 'Comtesse de Chambord SSE 226', Taiwan Pole' and 'Crystal Wax/Ice'.

    All the ones in baskets have beans on them 'CdeC's', 'DdeC's' and 'Little White Rice', we'll be have some for dinner tomorrow, the rest I'll leave for seed.

    Still in the greenhouse waiting for me to get the lead out, 'Flamingo', 'Grandma Robert's Purple Pole' and 'John's Polish Purple Pole'. 'Major' Cook's', 'Mrs. Fortune's', North Carolina Speckled Long Greasy Cut-short' and 'Poletschka'. 'Selma Zebra', 'Tennessee Greasy Mix' and 'White Hull Pink Tips'.

    I'm only growing 4-8 plants of a lot of these and will only be bagging a few flowers of each, taking my chances with the rest.

    The sample of 'Carouby de Maussane' peas I'm growing are climbing but haven't produced any flowers yet.

    Lastly, if I can find a bit of bare earth I'll throw in a few 'Wood's Mountain Crazy Beans' for much needed seed as I have given much of what I had away.

    O.K. so not my last :), growing a sample of the purple runner 'Aeron Purple Star' I just received from Wales. I'm only growing 4 plants this year in case they don't have enough time to make seed, but at least we'll get a taste.

    This is the most varieties I have grown in one season, needless to say I had to clear out another flower bed LOL.

    Annette

    This post was edited by aftermidnight on Sun, Jun 1, 14 at 18:24

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    "...Old back Luther? I build bean trellises by taking an armful of 8 foot t-posts under one arm and walk down the rows shoving posts in the ground 2 feet deep with my strong right arm."

    Who says the age of tall tales is dead? ;-)

    My own list finally stabilized:

    Beans
    Bert Goodwin (semi-bush snap/shelly)
    * Cascade Giant (pole snap)
    Flamingo (pole wax)
    Fortex (pole snap)
    Garafal Oro (pole snap)
    Giant Red Tarka (bush shelly/dry)
    Grandma Robert's (pole, purple snap)
    * Herrenbohnli (pole dry)
    Jembo Polish (pole snap/shelly)
    * Sargas (pole dry)
    Scotia (pole snap)
    Serbian pole (pole, trial for usage)
    Sangre de Toro (pole dry)
    Solwezi (bush dry)
    (Those marked * are from the collection of the late SSE member Richard Schoolmaster.)
    Runner
    Gigandes
    Insuk's Wang Kong
    Limas
    1880's Butterbean
    North Star
    Cowpeas/Yardlongs
    21 peas
    CES-18-6
    Green Dixie
    Pink Eye Purple Hull
    Thailand Pole (trial as snap)
    Yardlong, Black Seed
    Yardlong, Purple Pod
    Peas
    Cera Sierra (soup)
    Gruno Rosyn (Capucijner-type soup)
    Opal Creek Golden Snap
    Limestone (snow)
    Nadja (soup)
    Sugar Magnolia (purple snap)
    Misc. Legume
    Adzuki, Takara Early
    Garbanzo, PI 359241
    Hyacinth Bean, India Bush
    Rice bean, Bush
    Yellow Mungo
    Soybeans ("E" = edamame cultivar)
    Besarabka 724, Black Pearl (E), Blackeye, Cha Kura Kake (E), Fledderjohn (E), Gardensoy 12 (E), Grignon 18, Jaune de Desme, Jewel, Kharkovskaya Zernokomrmovaya, Oosodefuri (E), PI 89056-3, PI 194626, PI 194635, PI 291281, PI 437524, Rouest 117, Sapporo Midori (E), Selection No. 505, Soja Brun Hatif U486, SY 9514014, Tokio Vert, Ugra Saja

    More info on these varieties will follow as the season progresses.

    Due to all of the flooding problems on my rural plot in recent years, I increased the square footage of my suburban gardens by around 50% this year (up to 1485). While it too is on low-laying ground, it is better drained & dries out faster, so I can get more things in on time if the weather starts out wet (as it has again this year). Thanks to the expanded home plots, about 1/4 of the planned vegetables have been planted so far. I turned over my rural plot today, but drenching thunderstorms were hot on my heals (it's pouring as I type this), so I'll need to wait for that ground to dry again before I can start planting. Until then, I will be starting most of the beans intended for the rural garden in pots, so the late planting won't have too much impact on the DTM's.

  • sea_kangaroo
    9 years ago

    This year I was able to recruit a chunk of my parents' yard and a bit of a friend's yard, so am able to grow more than the usual one variety per year of lima, runner, & yardlong. Also trying to utilize the front yard (we rent and aren't allowed to rip up the lawn like I would dearly love to) by growing beans in containers for the first time, which if it works out will let me squeeze another few varieties onto the list.

    Peas (spring; fall crop yet to be determined)
    Crown
    Flour
    Gastro
    Lancashire Lad
    Opal Creek
    Orange Delight
    Tom Thumb
    Triple Treat

    Beans
    Alice Sunshine
    Anellino (presumably the same as Anellino Giallo?)
    Aunt Jean's
    Blooming Prairie
    Brazilian Carioca
    Cacahuatle Putla, Oaxaca
    Doyce Chambers Greasy Cut-short
    Heavenly Gold
    Isla
    Jembo Pole
    Lilaschecke
    Lohrey's Special
    Maggie's Crescent
    Mountain Pima Burro & Caballito (hopefully as a summer planting)
    Ohio Pole
    Stevenson Blue Eye
    suspected outcross of Flagg
    Tarahumara Burro & Caballito (trying as a fall bean, since it seems day length sensitive)
    Tarahumara Purple Ojos
    Zona Upchurch Goose

    Lima
    Hereboontjie
    Hopi Pole
    Mottled Sieva

    Runner
    (Tarahumara) Tekomari
    Tucomares Chocolate
    mystery seed reported to be a hybrid between regular bean Blue Shackamaxon and 2 kinds of runner beans (Corona and Scarlet). big solid-black seeds that are growing exactly like runner beans so far.

    Soy
    Gaia
    Mooncalf
    Natsu Kurakake

    Misc
    adzuki Black (may actually be Vigna mungo)
    probably another adzuki also (this year I discovered that they're delicious! taste like boiled peanuts)
    Apios americana Simon-1972
    chickpea Magic Carpet
    fava Habas Jergonas
    hyacinth bean
    hyacinth bean Beh Pien
    tepary Paiute Mixed
    yard-long Chinese Mosaic
    yard-long Thai Purple Podded

    Went a little nuts this year... every last thing in the garden is either beans or tall/vining plants to help isolate the bean varieties.

  • fusion_power
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    looks to me like you went a little "beans" this year. :) lol

  • fusion_power
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    about 1/3 of my peas have germinated which is not bad for seed that is from 3 to 5 years old. I planted 4 to 5 seed per hill so it won't take many more plants to fill in the area. I have an electric fence all the way around the peas, the deer won't get them.

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    "about 1/3 of my peas have germinated which is not bad for seed that is from 3 to 5 years old."

    Seed longevity can be surprising. My seed for the pea Gruno Rosyn is from 2005, so I expected poor germination, and planted them in pots using the protocols for old/weak seed. So far, 30 of 32 have germinated. Hate to waste healthy plants, so I'm re-arranging the garden a bit to make room for all of them.

    Sea-kangaroo, I suspect that you & I have exchanged seeds, perhaps under a different handle? I will be interested to hear how (Tarahumara) Tekomari does for you. I grew it last year (from an exchange) and it appeared to be very unstable, with some white flowered & seeded, and some purple-seeded crosses. I may attempt to stabilize the gray in future years, especially since one gray-seeded plant had especially large, lima-like seeds.

    ..."adzuki Black (may actually be Vigna mungo)"

    That would be my first suspicion also. The urds I've grown or seen have a flat or powdery-black appearance, while the adzuki tend to be glossy.

  • sea_kangaroo
    9 years ago

    fusion_power, that reminds me that I didn't put peanuts on my legume list, but I'm trying "Jungle" peanuts and Texas Red & White Striped this year also. So a little nuts, but a lot beans. :)

    zeedman, we have indeed! I'm CA CL C/megatherium also. Did the Isla tip you off?

    This is actually my second year growing Tarahumara Tekomari. I received it as "Tekomari" from Seed Dreams, which I think is MO GO T's company. The packet I got had a mixture of solid white, solid black, "grey" frosted, and pink/purple with scattered black speckles. Interestingly the "frost" seems to be a sort of top coat that can go over different patterns: there were some that were clearly frost over pink with scattered specks, or frost over black with pink specks, or frost over solid black. I planted only the grey ones since they were the most interesting, and with the exception of one white-flowered white-seeded non-pigmented-stem plant, got in return all red-flowered plants with grey seeds. I think the white-flowered white-seeded thing is a pretty common mutation in runner beans, kind of like how grey squirrels and eastern quolls pretty commonly have black (melanistic) kits in a litter of greys. I remember reading through the SSE historical database at one point and lots of people having all-whites turn up in their varieties.

    I planted in mid-April and they bloomed in mid-May but didn't actually set pods until July 27th. Fortunately frost isn't until after Halloween even on an "early" frost year like 2013, so I still got a quart jar of seed out of Anyway, here are some photos to illustrate:



  • dlsm
    9 years ago

    Good luck to all you guys planting your gardens in the cold climates. All my beans are matured and pulled up due to the hot summer weather. Saved enough seed for my fall planting. Have replaced them with assorted cowpeas that will take the summer heat. Plus a few other vegetables that will take the heat.

    Luther

  • fusion_power
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Zeedman, it was not just the fact they germinated that was surprising, but that they germinated in 2 to 3 days. I've had 8 year old cowpeas germinate 80% or better in 7 days. I planted 11 year old okra seed at 8 seed per hill this year. They gave 70% germination and I had to thin the plants. That is not bad for seed I last grew in 2003.

    Sea kangaroo, at least you are megatherium, not megachirops, and not oontatherium.

    I'll let you dig out the description of oont. Sadly, you will have to search for "oont kipling" to find the correct reference. Google once gave the right link from a search for "oont" with no other qualifiers, but has modified their search criteria so much that it no longer shows up in the first 100 results.

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    "... Did the Isla tip you off?"

    That, Hopi Pole, and Natsu Kurakake. It was just too much of a coincidence.

    Interesting photos. The Tekomari seed I received was all "gray" (black frosted over a light background), very similar to the seed you grew. There was no visible variation such as there was in the seed you received... possibly the seed sent to me had been sorted by seed coat color after harvest.

    I always wonder when I receive such a mixture, whether the variations are inherent in the strain (such as a regional land race) or whether crosses were introduced as the seed went through a string of exchanges. The question is whether to preserve it as is - with all variations - or to select for something more stable. My natural inclination is to eliminate crosses where they appear to have been unintentional, and to select back toward the original description (where one can be found). The source that sent me seed for the Tekomari said that it was from NS/SEARCH, so I have sent them an email requesting any historical info they might still have. I'll forward any reply I receive.

    I must admit, though... regardless of their reply, the thought of stabilizing the gray is tempting. While your seed had a lot of color variation, the size & shape were very consistent. One of the gray-seeded plants that I grew had seeds that were much larger than the others, more like large limas than runner beans. It would really be something if it can be made to breed true.

    When I received Insuk's Wang Kong, I thought that the white flower/seed was a recent cross, and considering that I was able to (apparently) eliminate that variation in one generation, it probably was. But I wonder if I created a new strain by doing so. I will be re-growing Insuk's for fresh seed, if the white is still present as a recessive, I should see some sign of that this year.

    Your "black adzuki" got me wondering, because I have heard that mentioned several times over the years. Personally, I think that most of those sightings were mis-identifications of V. mungo... but I went through GRIN last night to see if they had a black-seeded adzuki. They had "grays" that were like a miniature version of the Tarahumara Tekomari, and a few with black spots or saddles, but no solid black. The black saddle, though, seems to imply that a solid black is possible.

  • sea_kangaroo
    9 years ago

    fusion_power, belated thanks for furthering my literary education. :) Re-skimming this thread, your Yellow Ripper cowpea caught my eye. Is that a yellow-seeded version of Red Ripper?

    zeedman, did NS/S ever get back to you about Tekomari? My "black adzuki" trade seed did indeed turn out to be Vigna mungo. I grew some from an Indian grocery store near to it and the plants were identical (and very hairy).

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    Sea-kangaroo, yes, NS/S did respond to my email. The reply follows:

    "I'm glad to hear you and others are growing this bean, as we don't have any in distribution currently.
    I looked at the data we have on Tarahumara Tekomari, and it does indeed look like there is a lot of variation in the strain. I'm attaching photos from a few of the original seed collections, so that you can see the variation. A picture is worth a thousand words, right? Sounds as though it may be fairly similar to what you are seeing. Hope this helps!
    Sheryl"

    Three photos are attached, but I don't know how to transfer them. Suffice to say that there was a lot of variability in their original sample, even more than in the seed you received. The black frost over several base colors is dominant, but there are also solid white, solid black, and purple in several patterns, as well as a few with really interesting coloration. You could most likely isolate several interesting lines from that land race, which is probably what will happen within the seed saving community. I too will probably attempt to isolate the gray into a pure line, but I sure wish I had access to NS/S's original sample

    I'm forced to wonder, though, at what point the separate strains become so different from the original, that the name no longer applies... unless followed with the "(your name here) strain" modifier. There appears to be too much diversity to preserve in totality via small grow outs.

    Not surprised to hear about your "black adzuki". I requested a sample of "gray adzuki" from SSE (which they graciously sent) only to discover it was in reality a cowpea. True rice beans are also sometimes confused with adzuki, which may have led to the rumors about a "pole adzuki". I'm still not 100% convinced, though, that both a black adzuki & a pole adzuki might not exist out there somewhere.

    I grow a strain of Vigna mungo as well, so I assume when you mention "very hairy" that you are referring to the foliage? The pods on mine are variable, some smooth, some hairy... but when shelled out, the seeds from both look identical.

    As an update, not much of my original list above was planted due to bad June weather, and there were even quite a few failures in what I got in. Still, I have been able to save seed from 4 beans, 2 runner beans, 1 lima (one more might still beat the frost), 3 cowpeas, 7 soybeans, and a hyacinth bean (details appear on another thread). More importantly, I have been able to replenish much of my old heirloom pepper & tomato seed... hard to believe, I know, but I don't just grow beans. ;-)

  • sea_kangaroo
    9 years ago

    Zeedman, perhaps you could forward NS/S's email to me? Forwarded emails usually bring their attachments along with them, and then I could see if I can attach them here. I'm megatherium on gmail.

    My Vigna mungos had middling hairy foliage and very hairy pods. I've only grown a couple of adzukis, Murasaki and one from the grocery store, but they both had smooth, cowpea-like pods, so I thought that might possibly be a helpful species-differentiator, but I guess not. I wonder if the cotyledons might help differentiate, though? My mungos all sprouted with theirs held above the soil, and I think I recall the adzuki ones remaining below but am not sure. Is that right?

    I found a Japanese genebank that has a lot of photos online and is in English, and they have a wonderful array of adzuki varieties that I hope to get my hands on at some point: Adzuki Overview

    Interestingly, they split V. angularis up into domesticated and wild (V. angularis var. nipponensis), and the wild ones all have a "frost" pattern like Tekomari or your adzuki Murasaki. This page has a bunch of photo links to wild-type accessions (at the bottom).

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    " My mungos all sprouted with theirs held above the soil, and I think I recall the adzuki ones remaining below but am not sure. Is that right?"

    Yes, adzuki seedlings are hypogeal, with the cotyledons remaining underground.

    Thanks for the links, I can see I'll be having fun with them this weekend. GRIN also has a lot of photos of adzuki seed, I already went through those looking for the solid black seed. They have quite a few with the speckled pattern you mention.

    I am forwarding the email from NS/S.

  • sea_kangaroo
    9 years ago

    Here are the photos from NS/S, courtesy of Zeedman:



    That's cool... I can see at least four patterns that weren't in my sample. The "partial frost" ones with the grey just around the hilum are interesting. And I guess I should be spelling Tekomari with a C instead of a K!

  • fitzefatz
    9 years ago

    Season is over here in Germany for this year. A crazy year weather wise: 2nd mildest winter on record, dry winter and spring, Warm (98ðF on Pentecost sunday). Came July, rain. August more rain and cold. September the same. October warm so far, now raining (4 inches in the last 24 hours). No frost this autumn yet.
    After two not so good bean years (last year I missed my goal of 200 metric pounds by 3), this year was better (a good garden year except the tomatos = complete blight wreck).
    I planted my usual Amethyst, Roc d'Or and Blauhilde. Yields this year between Amethyst and Roc d'Or varied quite significantly. The yellow surpassed 3 kg per square meter on 2 patches, probably the best yield I ever saw!. Amethyst was 20% less, except my latest patch (4 RD, 3 Am). Pole beans were yielding well this year, in bad (= cold) weather they get slightly stringy, not a huge deal, just more work when cleaning them. Quality of the bush beans was good to excellent.

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    Fascinating thread, which I somehow missed until today. I need to frequent this forum more often.

    In regards to Tarahumara Tekomari, I would say that almost every indigenous seed I ever saw in Mexico had HUGE variability built in. They were almost all landraces unless they had gone through a commercial "pipeline" before going on sale. The closest we could hope to maintain these landraces, would be to do large plantings and select very little.

    Fusion, I have a jar of Georgia Long Cowpea seed, from 1996 which still germinates. Cowpeas sure do last!

    Our years of drought and plague have worked havoc with my seed production and rotation. This summer was the best season I've seen since coming to Oklahoma.

    Unfortunately, we still had more grasshoppers than some varieties could stand, and still produce. My Calico Willow Leaf Pole Limas are only just now flowering. That seed is getting old. I need to dig some up today for Sea Kangaroo.

    Our lives are also, still, in upheaval, after a sudden, unexpected change in employment, back in 2009. It's been hard to keep things "level" so to speak. Between that, the drought and the grasshoppers, I about lost Barksdale Wax Pole bean, which is my wife's family's heirloom. Richard Lloyd sent me seed this spring and, I took a gamble, planting more than 16' of it. Normally Barksdale struggles in our Oklahoma heat. Well, we had a "cool," moist summer and it did fantastic! I have my seed stocks renewed! This is a good example of why we should distribute what we have.

    I put in two plantings of Woods Mountain Crazy Beans and am so glad I did! They have surpassed my expectations, producing a bumper crop. The first planting, true to the variety's description, produced a large crop, including much seed, and seemed to peter out. I left it where it is. Last week I pushed back the leaves and, BINGO! The plants are putting on even more pods! Here's a picture of pods from the first picking of my July planting.

    George
    Tahlequah, OK

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    Nice looking beans George, as far as 'Barksdale' goes, I grow these every year so if there is ever a need for seed just drop me a line. I also grew WMCB's again, we actually got to eat a few this year, lovely. I had given most of my seed from past growings away but this year I grew a bigger patch. The seed I collected this year has all the same seed coat pattern, black speckled on light background.

    In another thread I was thinking I'd had a cross in my Mr. Tung's but found out it was just a bean that had dropped out of my pocket beside my Mr. Tung's pole. It turned out to be a 'North Carolina Speckled Long Greasy Cutshort'. I had a pole of these elsewhere where I had to replant a couple of beans, so that mystery was solved. The thing is this particular bean vine out produced any other bean vine I grew this year, the base or I should say trunk where it came out of the ground was thicker than my thumb, it branched heavily and was loaded with pods, outdid any of the other NCSLGC's on the other pole. I kept a lot of seed from this one vine so will grow a few next year hoping for a repeat performance.

    I did manage to get a few pods far enough along to pick and finish drying off the "Flamingo's" I grew this year, had several feeds off these, I found I preferred them frenched (shoestringed) then any other way when cooking them.

    I still have some 'Cherokee Trail of Tears' in the garden had a few as full beans for dinner last night. Most were either turning purple or were dark purple, several of them kept their color after steaming for 20 or minutes, the texture was firm but not as tough as some of the store bought, flavor was pretty good too. The ones left for seed the pods are almost black, much darker than any other year I've grown them.

    Another thing I noticed when shelling my 'Tennessee Cutshorts' this year the beans were not crowed in their pods, had lost the cutshort appearance. Is it just this particular growing season or are they mutating?

    Everything else I grew other than the 'Andean' (I want to see what they day length sensitive ones produce they're tented under plastic) has been pulled, seed drying in wicker baskets until time to store sometime in the new year. We still haven't had a frost, but the rain has finally arrived after a very dry summer. I'm still picking cucumbers and Cherokee Green Grape cherry tomatoes but any day now......Zap.

    Annette

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    Annette,
    Tennessee Cutshort is not a true cutshort. Gardenlad, whom I truly miss, once explained to me that it probably started out as a true cutshort and, sometime in the past, a person who maintained the seed, selected for a less crowded pod. I sometimes grow Frank Barnett Cutshort, which is very much like Tennessee Cutshort, and the seeds are true cutshorts, being crammed into the pods.

    In recent years I started selecting for longer pods with more seeds in each. It's amazing how quickly such selection affects the overall population.

    Is that North Carolina Speckled Long Greasy Cutshort plant growing by itself? I've noticed when a pole bean plant is completely alone, on its own pole or with all the room it could possibly want on the trellis, that the plant will grow as if on steroids. This year, for instance, I planted Frank Barnett on a cattle panel...twice. The grasshoppers killed most of the plants. I think I have between four and six plants on that panel and I never planted any more. Those plants are amazing in their extreme vigor and productivity. Seems to me that I once read Zeedman make a similar observation.

    George

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    George, not growing by itself, it got mixed in with the 8 strings of Mr. Tung's growing on a plant pole, this is why at first I thought it was a mutation then I shelled one and recognized the bean inside. The Mr. Tung's vines had finished and were dying down, this one was still going strong and producing but as there'll probably be frost in the near future I picked all the dried pods for seed and the rest we had as full beans a couple of nights ago, growing on steroids, right :).

    I was just wondering about the Tennessee Cutshorts as this is the first year they haven't been crowded in their pods.

    Annette

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    That's strange. Here are two photos of beans in their dry pods. This is what Tennessee Cutshort usually looks like when I shell the seed. Notice some seed comes close to crowding together, but not quite.

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    I don't have a picture of the beans in their pods this year just the seed but this is what they usually look like, crowded in their pods. This year they look more like the ones in your picture. Could be just the type of growing season we had this year. Here's a picture of what mine usually look like but not this year. We did have an awfully dry summer, I had to water more than usual.
    Annette

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    Hmmm... If I didn't know better, I'd say I was looking at Frank Barnett. Tennessee Cutshort always looks the way it does in my photos, here, when I grow it.

    It might be something to do with conditions. According to Gardenlad, your picture is what the original probably looked like, way back before my wife's grandparents received the seed.

    George

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    I originally got my seed from Happy Day, they have always looked like the ones in my picture until this year.

    Annette

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    I found a picture of them growing this year. Most of the beans looked like the middle pod.
    Annette

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    Well Annette,
    It's hard to say. I do suspect it could be another bean. On the other hand, Frank Barnett is the closest thing I have to Tennessee Cutshort, which isn't. I would have a hard time telling them apart on the dinner plate. They are both superior beans. Here's a picture of Tennessee Cutshort production in my garden. You can see how they are knobby, but perhaps not as knobby as yours.

    {{gwi:1023938}}

    I would be happy to mail you a sample and you could do a side by side grow out next year, if you would like. That would be a delicious experiment!

    George

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    Sounds like a plan, I'd love to try a few George, anything else I have you might like to try, do you want a few of the 'Tennessee Cutshorts' I grew this year? Do you have my mailing addy, if not I will email it to you.

    I just went through my seed stash and found some TC's I got from you. So maybe I planted the seed I got from you not Happy this year.

    Annette

    This post was edited by aftermidnight on Mon, Oct 27, 14 at 17:37

  • drloyd
    9 years ago

    Annette I have grown Tennessee Cutshort from George for years and it is not a cutshort here either.

    In fact I have never grown anything that looks like your photo. I would like to though. What a full bean that would be! Maybe Happy Day would tell us what they are.

    Tonight I managed to get enough Granny, White Simpson Greasy, North Carolina Speckled Long Greasy Cutshort and Lazy Wife Greasy for supper/dinner. The main ones that are still in good condition are NT Half Runner and Snowball Greasy. - Dick

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    Dick, Happyday hasn't posted on the forum for a long time, so don't think he will chime in. When I went through my seed stash earlier I found some Tennessee Cutshort seed from 2011 these I think are from the TC's I got from Happyday in 2010, this seed looks the same but a little smaller and you can see the squared off ends on some of the seed ( far right in picture).
    The ones in the middle are some of the original TC's I got from George, the ones on the left are what I harvested this year. I'll plant the ones from Happyday next year, see how they turn out. They did make a really nice full bean.
    Annette

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    Annette, I will send you some seed real soon. I still have your address.
    I checked, and found that I didn't even grow Frank Barnett, until 2010. So, I couldn't have sent you that seed. I have grown Childers Cutshort, which is identical to Tennessee Cutshort. But such a mix up wouldn't account for the squared seed. When I get a chance I will take some pictures of Frank Barnett, out in the garden.

    George

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    Thanks George, I went through my records and photos last night and found I still had a few TC's from the ones I got from Happyday in 2010, these I grew both in 2010 & 11. I found a picture of what the bean from Happyday produced, if you compare them to what I grew this year you can just make out the beans are closer together in the picture on the right. I'll try growing them next year and if successful I'll send some to both you and Dick.
    Annette

  • drloyd
    9 years ago

    Annette I sent the photo of your cutshorts to Frank to see if he has any ideas.

    Dick

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    Last night we were expecting a freeze, the first killing freeze of this season. It did. I got up to 26 F.! Was up late picking and covering things. I remembered that I did not take any pictures of Frank Barnett Cutshort. So, by flashlight, and with an iPhone, I took two pictures. I was quite gratified with the amount of beans on these plants. They produced quite late because they were repeated eaten by grasshoppers. Yet they did not quit. I have most of a 5 gallon bucket of beans to process, today, just from Frank Barnett. That's from about 10 plants which survived. I have everything from dry pods to tiny snaps.

    I was too tired to do much for dinner at 10 PM. My wife was in worse shape than me. But I did snap and cook a plate of these beans. They were quite good. My assessment is that Frank Barnett is right up there with Tennessee Cutshort. Except for some structural differences: ie. shape of seed and placement of the seed in the pod, I could not tell these two apart. The flavor is great and production excellent.

    George
    Tahlequah,, OK

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    George what about the bean count per pod? how do the two compare?

    Annette

  • drloyd
    9 years ago

    Great photo George.

    I did send a copy of Annette's photo to Frank Barnett and I did hear back from him. According to Bill Best it was a mutant from River Bean first grown by Frank Barnett and Frank told me that Bill Best named it Frank Barnett Cut-Short. Both Frank's and Bill's pictures show that some of the mature pods have a pink blush.

    I am glad that it grows in this part of the world and it will be a priority for this next year. Let's see, I have 22 trellises and how many beans to try?? - Dick

    Here is a link that might be useful: Frank Barnett Cut-Short

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    Darn, now that's another one I want to try, does it ever end LOL.

    Annette

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    I'm sitting here, looking at the table, eating Frank Barnett Cutshorts, home grown sweet potatoes and duck, which I butchered today. There is hardly room for my plate, as I also have several containers of Frank Barnett on the table: one for seed, one for beans which need to be sorted, another for snapped and strung, which are ready to can. On the other end of the table I have a good sized pile of Tennessee Cutshort pods, in the same range of maturity. I see that Tennesse Cutshort does not have a pink blush when at mature shelly stage, and most of the Frank Barnett do. I occasionally find a Tennesse Cutshort with eight seeds in a pod. But five are more common. Frank Barnett very often has eight seeds to the pod. Sometimes it'll "shoot blanks," so to speak and only have five or six seed. But generally speaking, Frank Barnett has more seeds to the pod. I've begun selecting Tennessee Cutshort for more seeds to the pods (longer pods). But so far Frank Barnett is more cosistent in that.

    Annette, I dropped some of my Tennessee Cutshort seed in the mail, to you, this week.

    I'm working to organize a frozen seed bank for my collection. It's hard for me to grow out many different varieties, and I want to relieve the pressure of keeping them from expiring. For me the ideal is to grow enough of whatever I do grow that I can truly experience it on a fairly large scale. I'm the same way with livestock, poultry in particular. I have a pretty large flock of ONE heritage breed. I love to raise things the way their originators did.

    George

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    Thanks George, I'm looking forward to doing a comparison grow next year, every time I think I've got my list made out for next year it changes :).
    I finally broke down and bought a small freezer just for my bean collection. Each variety I grow from now on will end up with a decent sized sample frozen. I plan on using small canning jars, the ones used for jams and jellies and small prepared hot mustard jars (we go through a lot) for smaller beans, I don't have to store huge amounts of anything as I don't grow any one variety in large numbers.

    Annette

  • drloyd
    9 years ago

    Annette and George, Tennessee Cutshort is an early bean here with the first dry pods in mid-September. How does Frank Barnett Cutshort compare in days to maturity?

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    Richard, I can't find my notes from 2011 and it appears that I only grew Frank Barnett this year and in 2010. I know I wanted to renew the seed. Anyway, I neglected to write down days to maturity in 2010 and this year I would estimate 100 days. However, there are extenuating circumstances. As with all my pole beans, Frank Barnett was eaten down quite a bit before the grasshoppers subsided. This changes days to maturity. So, I can't say for sure. I've thought it was similar to Tennessee Cutshort.

    George

  • drloyd
    9 years ago

    Thank you George. It grows fine for Annette so it will probably do fine here. I will ask Frank if he has any packets of it. He did not have it on his list this year. He is my main source of new Appalachian full beans to try. A lot of them thrive here. Dick

  • Macmex
    9 years ago

    I can believe it about Frank or about Sustainable Mountain Agriculture. Going through their web site finally drove home, to me, that I will NEVER be able to grow everything that I might wish! I dare say, they don't have a bean I wouldn't like! I sent them a sample of Tennessee Cutshort, so, someday, that too, will show up on their site.

    If they are out, by all means let me know. I should have a healthy supply.

    George

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    9 years ago

    My beans are all finished for the year, vines pulled, seed collected with the exception of the Andean/Ecuador beans, the frame they're growing on is now covered with plastic, these last few (with the white flowers) are still flowering and producing beans, I'm thinking these ones are day length sensitive the rest have been finished for awhile. This has been a fun experiment but doubt if I will grow them again. I have a fair amount of seed from them so if anyone wants to play with them :), I would think they are one used as a dry bean, the pods are as tough as shoe leather.

    I had trouble with two varieties, North Carolina Speckled Long Greasy Cutshort' and 'Soissons Vert' started in pots, they looked sickly so tossed them and started more seed. I finally got a few 'NCSLGC' going up a pole and we manages a few snaps from them but it was the one accidentally dropped beside the 'Mr. Tung's' pole, this one grew like it was on steroids. We had several meals off it and I harvested a fair amount of seed.
    'Soissons Vert', I ended up with one healthy vine so I have enough seed to try again next year.

    The 'Chinese Red Noodle' did just OK, not great but we did get a couple of meals and the 'BJBB's', planted in the greenhouse gave me enough for a couple of meals and enough seed to grow again, they are so tasty.

    Everything else did great, I still had a few seed left of 'Poletschka' so planted those, from 15 plants I got 2.85 lbs of seed, I didn't try them as a snap or shelly so can't comment on how they taste. I'll keep a sample in the freezer but the rest I'll give to my neighbor, he uses a lot of dry beans we don't.

    Annette