Jim, here is a link saying 150 to 300 foot isolation distance (without crop barriers) for lima beans, and also that that isnt enough if you have beekeeping neighbors.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:HTGKouH0caoJ:www.savingourseed.org/pdf/IsolationDistancesVer_1pt5.pdf+lima+isolation+distance&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us(p)
http://www.savingourseed.org/pdf/IsolationDistancesVer_1pt5.pdf(p)

In "Seed to Seed", Suzanne Ashworth recommends one mile between varieties. Given that limas flower freely & produce a high-quality nectar, they are very attractive for bees... so this may not be unreasonable, if there were few other food sources available. But that is for _pure_ seed. If some crossing is acceptable, or if other flowering crops are planted between them as barriers (such as runner beans, or trellised squash) this could probably be reduced significantly.

I interplant limas, runner beans, common beans, asparagus beans, and gourds (bitter melon) with great success... but I only plant one variety of lima & one runner bean each year.

Bees have been very active on my limas. Only once did I grow more than one variety, many years ago, when I first began saving seeds. I grew both "King of the Garden" and "Christmas", separated by 50 feet. Upon planting the KOG the following year, I had some crossing, perhaps 10%. At the time, I was not using barrier crops, so I don't know how much that could have affected the outcome.

Thanks for that clarification Zeedman.

After reading this I believe I will pull up my Hendersons and Christmas limas so that the beautiful white and raised black patterned Lynches Butter Bean is the only lima for this year.
I'd like it to breed true so I'll have something to swap this fall. A lima can't cross with a cowpea, can it?

I just can't plan my garden in terms of miles.

I have Ashworth's book, which is a compilation of published information, all based on commercial seed production. That doesn't help me on my scale of gardening and seed saving.

Carol Deppes book is more realistic for the home gardener. She has some practical strategies for gardeners like us. Even her's is a bit discouraging in my situation.

I hope against hope that I can maintain a semblance of pure lima seed within 20 to 40 feet of another gardener's planting of a different variety.

Jim

Last year there were statements made about how many bean plants were needed to save seed from, so as not to lose genetic vigor.

Found this 1987 article(p) today, by Nancy Bubel, which states that "Self-pollinators don't lose vigor from their natural inbreeding, so you can safely save only one plant's (or a single fruit's) seed from them if you wish."

In other words, Jim, if this is correct, we should be able to save seed from bagged lima branches without worrying about loss of genetic diversity. Branches can be bagged with remay fabric. Check the cloth in case bees chew through it, then mark the pods with yarn.

If this is not correct, it would be educational to see links to studies that demonstrate that self fertile plants such as beans actually require cross pollination, or seed saved from several plants, to prevent the loss of vigor. It may be that this is a common misconception, based on what happens with most cross-pollinated crops.

When I get a larger place I plan to select and plant one single bean in an isolated bee proof cage, or maybe in a window indoors, and save seed from it every year, then plant one single bean of the saved seed, and see how long that continues with healthy fertile plants.

Here is a link that might be useful: Saving seed

That's encouraging, happyday. Looks like it is the answer for me. I'll study up on it so I will understand it.

Jim

I have always believed, based upon observation of pollinators in my garden, that limas required tripping to set seed. When I see bumblebees working the blossoms, I get pod set - and not before. If so, blossom bagging would not be effective without manual tripping. But to be honest, I have never tried it... an experiment for another year (I am growing out two rare varieties this year).

If someone on this forum has tried it (or will) I would be very interested to hear the results. Should bagged lima blossoms produce seed, I would be able to maintain many more varieties.

However, it would require bagging a lot of clusters, since each pod only produces a few seeds. It would be very labor-intensive to produce even modest quantities... even more so with multiple varieties.

Often gardeners have strong feelings one way or another on these issues. Hopefully no one will take offense, as it certainly isn't intended. If I had the acreage or the years, I'd much prefer to plant 100 seeds of single variety per year and let the bees have at them. But we got to do the best with what we have.

So I ordered 50 ft of Summerweight row cover, and will completely enclose several cylindrical wire tomato cages, and set over one or two seedlings of a variety, and leave it there all summer, completely excluding pollinators. Will probably fertilize with low-no N, high PK fert to encourage flowering, and jiggle the cage when I'm out there. It will be interesting to compare pod set with the open air plants of the same variety. This link(p) lists several studies with conflicting results.

The plants will be stressed, which ought to encourage seeding more than not. The question that concerns me most is, will seed from only one or two caged plants be enough to assure enough diversity. This link(p) says that breeders fix desireable traits via generations of self pollination.

If it really does take 50 seeds of one variety grown out and cross pollinated with one another to reproduce seed vigorous and diverse enough to be worth saving and trading, then we might as well all just buy our seed from catalogs, two packs at a time, cos who has the room, otherwise?

Happy & Jimster, for the most part, I tend to agree with you.

For breeders & preservationists, maintaining genetic diversity ensures the _long term_ survival of the line. It means that the variety will be better able to cope with new diseases over time, and with the challenges brought on by changing environment & cultivation in different regions. For in-breeding plants (those that are self-fertile) this is recommended... for most out-breeders (those requiring external pollination) it is necessary.

Larger populations are also good practice for those who share seed frequently. I generally try (within reason) to preserve the original diversity of any seeds that I receive, so that others I trade with can select for the traits that matter to them. But for most gardeners, this philosophy is unnecessary for their purposes.

And the truth is, many (if not most) varieties may be descended from a single original seed. Mutation gradually re-introduces diversity over time.

Two bean varieties that I maintain are from plants that were sole survivors, and both are healthy. So for in-crossing plants (including beans & tomatoes) one plant may be adequate for home seed savers.

One final word on "diversity". Most seed saving references, when they speak of the advantages of saving your own seed, mention adaptation to your soil & conditions. The theory is that as you select for the strongest plants, you increase the vigor of successive generations.

But remember... selection is the process of _eliminating_ diversity. So for plants to adapt to local conditions, the genetic diversity required to do so needed to be there in the first place. Without such diversity in the original seed, selection as a means of improvement is meaningless.

This is a very good conversation on isolation distances. Andy I hope you got your e-mail on the correction of the loudermilk BB vice lynch's BB. I have grown several lima,pea and common bean varieties in close proximity for years and in the limas especially there is some small crossing, I have seen very little if any crossing in peas and common beans but this varies from season and I'm sure across the country due to pollinators. I also maintain honey bees and have several hives around my garden. But it is not only the honey bees I see pollinating it is mainly the bumble bees.
I have tried several methods to maintain seed purity and depending on how rare the seed is depends on my method. First method is to plant two or three varieties each having different seed, bloom or leaf types. For example on one end of garden plant a white seeded lima or bean in the middle of garden plant a black seed bean on other end plant a red seeded bean.Can plant a willow leaf variety and a regular leaf or can plant a purple flower and a white flower the ideal is if you have to plant more than one and can't get good isolation plant two types with total distinct traites so that these can be weeded out in the next generation. When harvest seed each year cull out off color types. Unlike corn you will not see the crossing in the first year so any of the seed could be crossed and each year you must cull out any off types to maintain pure seed. If planting different leaf types or bloom types pull the plants that are not like the beans traits. This methods allows maintaining a relatively pure source of seed for home use. and can be easily cleaned up if allowed to grow out in isolation for a season.
Another method that is discussed in the above link from Jeff McCormick who by the way is the founder of Southern Exposure Seeds in Va. is to use a buffer crop. I frequently use this and this method is used by Clemson Univ. in there Heirloom garden. There is still some small crossing but seed purity is at an acceptable level for sale. To maintain seed purity with a buffer crop. Plant three parralell rows of beans, limas or peas. each row is about 15ft long and about 6ft apart.The total row lenght could be several hundred feet the ideal is plant about 15ft of peas then 15ft limas then 15ft beans So there is three rows of pinkeyed limas then three rows of white beans then three rows of red peas then back to three rows of limas etc etc. The peas and beans each give a barrier for the limas and visa versa. And only the seed in the center row of the three is saved for seed.
I play on this method in my garden by planting three 125ft rows of one type of bean that is my main crop and in the center row I plant three different limas each about 25ft from the ends and about 25ft apart and around 6-10ft of each. As the bees progress done the row beans pollen is introduced to the limas and therfore no crossing and the lima pollen that is picked up is lost in the beans before reaching the next section of limas. On a smaller scale this could be acomplished by planting one teepee of limas in the center and encircle it with beans or peas. then do the same thing in another spot. You can also use another crop altogether such as italian sunflowers surrounding a hill of limas the bees prefer the sunflowers and loose any lima pollen before getting to the next group of limas.The key is the buffer cropp has to bloom at the same time and should provide loads of pollen to prevent cross pollination.
I am experimanting this year by growing three limas side by side one willow leaf one black seeded one red seeded using no barriers and will grow them out next year and check percentage of crossing.
Another and the best to ensure absolute pure seed in a close enviroment is isolation cages. I have insect netting that I use to cover hills of plants to prevent crossing. All beans peas and limas are self fertile they do not cross between families and they do not need pollinators to set seed. I have read many articles on Limas and Runner beans needing pollinators and in case studies yield was increased when pollinators were used but not enough to warrent using pollinators. See the link below for a good article on this. So for pure seed cover the entire plant when blooms are ready to open. Not before because it cuts back on the sun and is not needed until plants start to bloom and keep covered until dry seed harvested. I have seen mosquito netting for camping that covers one persons bed for around $20 this would adequately cover a teepee of beans and prevent cross pollination. I will post a picture in a couple of weeks of a 125ft row of beans and limas that has 6 different beans and six different limas planted in it. The beans/limas are alternated and staked with bamboo poles I will place a rebar rod in the ground on each side of the row every 6ft down the lenght of the row and 2ft outfrom the plants. Over this rebar I put a 12ft piece of 1/2 pvc pipe. This forms a hoop over this hoop I run a solid sheet of insect netting. I will close each end up with clothes pins and I will use rocks/ boards on the bottom. This is the first time for me using nets for such a large area. But I had several variety of beans and limas I needed to grow out this year.
Another good method is time isolation. I used this when I first started planted different varieties and learned about crossing and seed purity. The variety I wanted to save for seed I planted first. about a month later I planted my main crop. The first variety bloomed and set pods before the main crop bloomed. I saved those seed. once the others started to bloom the remaining pods where eaten. this allowed me to grow a new variety each year plus still have a main crop for eating. I also use this method still for peas. I plant several variety of field peas ech year I plant the first crop in may a secound in june third in july 4th in aug. After each planting produces its first crop I till the plants under this adds organic matter to the soil and adds nitrogen and I can get pure seed from several plantings of peas.
I would also like to add another method. Volunteer your time and seed to plant period garden at a historical place or and educational garden at a school. Use this new garde to grow varieties in isolation while giving something to the community. I grow an heirloom garden at Rose Hill Plantation up the road from me in SC. It is rewarding and allows me to harvest pure seed.
I hope this was helpful. It sure was long and I apologize for that. Rodger

Here is a link that might be useful: lima pollination

Good points Zeedman and Rodger. Maybe it would be better to bag one branch of each plant than completely isolate just one plant, thereby preserving more genetics. The sleeve wouldnt have to stay on all summer, just till pods begin, then the tip of each pod could be dipped in latex or acrylic paint to stop anyone from eating it. The sleeve could be duct taped to the stem where it closes. Inspect the branch before bagging it and remove any opened flowers or pods that might already be pollinated.

One final note regarding caging of bean plants. I tried it one year with bush beans, using Agribon floating row cover over a frame. This system has been highly successful with me for peppers, since it not only excludes pollinators, but raises heat & humidity within the cage.

The extra heat was not a problem... the extra humidity, however, was a different story.

I have never had problems with bean diseases except in the coolest, wettest summers. That summer was a good year, and all of my other beans were healthy. The beans within the cages were yellowed & diseased, so I was forced to terminate the experiment, and removed the covers. The plants recovered, and I was able to get seed from them.

My conclusion is that if bean plants are to be caged, a more breathable material (such as screen) should be used, to avoid increased humidity.

That is a good point zeedman. I have tried the remay cloth and have had similiar problems. I use insect netting it is a uv protected polypropalene netting like you would see on a screen porch. Allows good light transmission washable durable and breathes well.

Thanks everyone for the great information. Rodger, your post was not too long at all, it was loaded with stuff for me to ponder, study and learn from.

I really appreciate everyone's generosity with their time and knowledge.

We're in a streak of great growing weather here as our gardening season gets under way. I hope yours is the same.

Jim

BTW, I should add that the personal knowledge I get here is seldom, if ever, found in books. For the most part, authors seem comfortable only with passing along conventional wisdom, which in the case of isolation distances comes from large scale seed production. That's worthless to most home gardeners.

Carol Deppe is an exception. She writes from personal experience as a gardener and small scale vegetable breeder. And, as someone said (her I think and also zeedman) all seed saving is breeding.

Jim

I would like to know where I can find some of that insect netting Rodger mentions. I've been searching for it on the web, and finding just alot of links to manufacturers who dont sell to home gardeners.

Rodger, I'm with Happy... I would love to know a source for the insect netting that you mentioned. It would allow me to cage beans & tomatoes without increasing the humidity (and the risk of disease) within the cages.

What size(s) does it come in?

The link below will give you some sources for netting. Be sure to check out the ads along the right hand side of the screen.

I've bought this stuff locally from a tent and camping store.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Mosquito Netting Sources

Last year I used mosquito netting that I bought on line from a camping supply store it was $20 and covers 6ft area and 6ft high perfect for a tomato cage or bean pole. I just draped it over and had not ill effects. This year I purchased a full 200yd roll of material from the below company. So this will be the first year trying it on a large scale. The material was not cheap but buying the full roll is significantly cheaper than buying the premade netting covers at $20 each. I grow and sell heirloom vegetable plants and produce and am getting into the seed aspect so I need large covers, so the cost is part of my side hobby/buisiness. I will keep y'all posted on how it works this year. Rodger

Here is a link that might be useful: [netting](http://www.pakunlimited.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=94&mode=thread()

Thanks, Rodger, that is exactly what I have been searching for! Most of the other netting available does not have the light transmission or UV stability required for caging plants. The screen is, as you said, a bit pricey. But with me as with you, it's just the price I pay for doing something I love... in my case, heirloom preservation.

here is an update on caging beans. My green beans are blooming and limas are setting buds. The bumble bees have been very active on the beans and tomatoes this year. This row is 125ft long there is 6 common beans and 6 limas planted in the row alternating one bean then followed by a lima. This first picture shows a black seeded cornfield bean I recieved this spring at the Southern Legacy seed swap in Crawford Ga. It is the first group uncovered in the row.It is a very prolific climber, purple viens and stems dark green leaves and purple flowers. You can see the approximate lenght of each group. The first cover bean is a red saba Lima.

This next pixture shows a side view. You can see the beans on poles inside. Each group is contained in its own cover. I covered the Limas first them I covered the common beans sharing the end poles of the limas to save on material. Also the beans will be done in another 4weeks and I can remove this cover to harvest seed with out compromising the limas which will stay covered till fall.

This last picture just shows part of the row. I used clothes pins to seal the ends rolling the fabric then pinning it shut with the clothes pin and I used bricks on the base I wil also heavily mulch the path with straw to keep down weeds. I also mulched the beans with straw and have a drip irrigation system installed that I can turn on each individual row that needs watering.

Thanks for the pics, Rodger. I hope to do something similar next year, since I can only grow 2 limas a year at present (on widely separated plots), and have been accumulating new ones faster than I can grow them out.

Is this your first year caging limas? I have read many differences of opinion, even among "experts", as to whether or not limas require mechanical pollination (insects or tripping) to set seed. In my own experience, I don't get pod set until bumblebees start to work the flowers. Do you get many pods on your caged limas?

Rodger that looks fine. Hope it works and you get plenty of pod set. Please let us know in the fall if the beans did set pods.

I got the remay cloth I ordered and was disappointed that it is so easy to tear. So I went to the Walmart fabric department and bought some sheer, see through cloth. It looks like nylon, but it is very tough, you can't tear it. It is so fine that I doubt even a thrip could get through it. I'm sure it will let in more light than the remay. I'll make some anti-pollination sleeves with that.

This is my third year caging limas. First year was with remay cloth worked okay. I just draped it over a section of limas till I had the first crop of dry seed. Then I removed the cloth. vines were tangled and matted and the plant didn't look great but really took of with new growth and a bigger fall crop for eating. Last year I tried the netting again and just drapped it over with similiar compacted vines but better looking plants since the netting allows more light and airflow. I am familiar with the talk about BB needing pollinators but everything I have read on the subject suggest increased yield. I have not done side by side comparisons to see if I get a higher yield with no caging vice with caging. and there is also differences in yield between varieties so I would need to use the same variety and leave one uncaged as a control. I typically start with 20-25 seeds of each bean and plant half of them reserving the other half incase of some unexpected failure. From those 10-12 plants which is a 6ft row I can get a pint of seed from the first flush of blooms which even in uncovered plants the first flush is always small . It is the secound flush that I can get a half gallon of seed and there is always a third flush that produces another half gallon of seed. So I am not that interested in whether I can get 50% increase in yield If use pollinators. I can get a pint of pure seed from covered plants which is about 300 seed when I started with 15 seed so I met my purpose of saving pure seed. Then I can remove the covers if I desire and eat the remaining pods. The net goes on just before first blooms open and stay on for about three to four weeks when the first pods are turning yellow and secound flush is starting to bloom.This year I plan on leaving the covers in place for the first and secound flushes of bloom to maximize my seed then remove for final flush and eat these.But how long they stay on will depend on how healthy the plants are since any cover will block some light.I am really encouraged this year with the netting and using pvc arches. I visited SSE last Aug and spoke with them about their caging system. They use cages on BB but I didn't see any common beans in cages and they plant their common beans about 25ft apart.I have yet to see any crossing in my common beans and I plant no less than 50ft apart. So far the row of beans I have covered are doing great I took temperature readings inside and outside the cage. The temperature inside was a couple of degrees cooler due to shading. And with the extra room to grow plants are growing fine and I shouldn't have the tangled mess I had before when I just drapped the fabric over the plants vice creating a roomy enclosure. It was breezy the other night and covers stayed in place. The pvc arches shifted some so next year I will invest a little more and instead of the single arch I will make an arched frame by installing a tee in the top of the arch and running a piece of pvc between the two arches. I will be placing the netting over some watermelons in the next week or two. I have one patch of melons that I am not keeping seed from consisting of 6 varieties and 48 plants these were planted last week of March in peat pots in the greenhouse and transplanted outside in mid April. They all have melons on them now from the size of a nerf football down to a few inches. The secound group of melons is Stone mountain a large melon similar to black diamond. I am growing 36 plants they are about 6weeks behind the others and are now showing male blooms. As soon as the first female flowers appear and I have pollination( melons will typically abort the first few melons till the plant is ready) I will then remove any pollinated fruit and cover the first patch of melons with my netting to allow bees to pollinate the stone mountain. I have not had lots of success with hand pollinating melons (Here is a picture of some lynches BB this is two 125ft rows the row on the left also has about 20ft of a red vining field pea and a red seeded common bean both SC Heirlooms given to me.

this pictures is the same beans only from the side. The stuff coming up in the tilled area is Buckwheat to be used as a summer cover crop. I am also going to plant some winter squash in that patch next week. The Buckwheat is a great plant for attracting benificial insects especially a wasp which only feeds on squash bugs. I took a picture last year of the wasp with a squash bug nymph in its mouth but it was with my cell phone and it came out blurry.

Have to get back to work. Rodger

Thanks, Rodger. My plans for this year are set, just the two BB's with full isolation... but I'll try caging next year. In recent years, I have been given better access to SSE's collection. If I can increase the number of limas I grow each year - and give some rare varieties greater public exposure - I certainly intend to do so.

I am very interested in your observation regarding temperature within the cages, using netting as a cover... you may have discovered an unexpected (but welcome) side effect. I would have expected a _higher_ temp, which is what I get with spun polyester row cover.

The cooler temps may encourage better blossom set for beans. It may be that using a screen with even more shading (and even cooler temps) would aid pollination of runner beans; I am experimenting with the use of light shade this year, in hopes that it will give me better warm-weather blossom set. But it will be open shade, with pollinators permitted.

Very nice looking vines, by the way. I wish that I had enough room to garden in straight rows, as you & SSE have done. The majority of my garden is in a 100-foot square, so I use a "maze" of cross-hatched rows, barrier crops & flowers to minimize crossing... a system very similar to Jeff McCormick's. I try for at least 30 feet of distance between beans & tomatoes, with 4-5 other crops (at least one trellised) between. It has been effective so far... but it's a lot of work, and takes considerable planning. I long for an easier way! ;-)

Thought I would bring this back up, since I am thinking about growing more legumes for seed this year, and I may use some screen cages.

Rodger, could you provide an update of your results with screened beans, especially limas? And have you found a more economical source of screen than the one linked above?

Thanks for bumping up this thread, zeedman. I had forgotten it. There certainly is a wealth of valuable information buried in these old threads.

Jim

Last year was the last time I will be able to use the sceened netting I have been using. It has finally worn out. I did get about 5 years wear out of it. It worked very well for me but it is too expensive for me to make another purchase. I tried the agribon 15 last year on one row of beans. Again I just drapped it over the vines. The poles tore it in a couple f spots so this year I will use it only on the cattle panels or use the pvc hoops. I bought one of those hoop benders to bend conduit pipe but I have yet to use it maybe that will happen this year. On the Agribon 15 insect barrier, I read a discussion at SSE on using this as an insect excluder and Baker Creek did their melon and squash grows outs using this and Bumble bees as polinators. I spoke with them and they had good results. My only experience was with the one row and last year the beans covered and uncovered did poorly due to the heat. So I can not make any claim but I went ahead and ordered a 1500 foot roll to use exclusively this year. I will try to post pictures this year like I did several years ago. I find it hard to balance working in the garden running a greenhouse and seed growouts for companies plus the preservation work and handle a full time job working 12hr rotating shifts and posting pictures. But my wife no longer works away from home she is keeping the grandkids, yes I have too grandchildren now a Granddaughter who loves her vegetables and a grandson that is 2months old. This has allowed my wife to take over a lot of the administrative aspects of the garden and picking things too so wth her help last year I caught up on a lot of my notes and paperwork so maybe this year she can do some picture posting as well. Rodger

Congratulations on the grandchildren Rodger!

Very smart of the kids to have a girl first too, shouldn't be any time at all before she is a big help to mom and grandma!

i am very interest for discusing, i just want to share about distance isolation, This outcross effect I've ever experienced in my area (Indonesia) when I planted several varieties of which only separated 1 meter going out cross, but this outcross occur in a variety ..

Bumping... there's a lot of good information here. :^)

A colleague of Bill Best by the name of Frank Barnett has been kind enough to answer questions several times over the last year. Frank is serious collector and grower of Appalachian beans.

He once told me that he will not trade beans with anyone who grows Goose or Maw Williams (the southern spelling) in a garden with other beans as these varieties are way to free with their DNA. I had already noticed that and have stopped growing them. :-( He would likely have said the same thing about Jeminez/Jiminez/Jimenez had he grown it.

Last night he wrote the following: "On bean crossings I have taken the word of my grandmother and other old time gardeners which were always suspicious of large brown bean varieties. When I raise those beans I raise them on the land I own 45 miles from my house.

Here at the house I never plant similar looking bean varieties in adjacent or in joining rows. For example, I do not plant two white varieties in adjacent rows. I will plant a white variety and a brown or striped variety in adjacent rows. When I split a row (my rows are 50 ft long) , the joining varieties will be a white to a red or to a brown.
And when I pick beans to eat I pick beans at the joins first.

A couple of years ago I acquired a blue cornfield bean which I decided to plant on the land in the country in isolation. Mature the bean had a red pod with blue seeds, beautiful. However, within the row were some green pods with white seeds so I am glad I didn't plant that variety here at the house.

With my attempts to plant two bean crops a season and my staggered plantings I don't really think I have crossings. However, I do notice mutations which could be keepers. In 2012 I planted the Granny bean which matured in mid July.
I noticed one vine had beans which were all white cut-shorts. I saved those for seeds with the exception of a few pods which I shelled out and planted back into the same row I had just picked and torn out. Those beans matured in October and came back true. I ate a few and named the bean the Granny Cut-short.

My bean rows are spaced 5 feet apart here at the house. Once my beans are planted I do not plow between the rows but I use a hoe or even a grass trimmer to control the weeds or grass between the rows. This allows the center bulk to firm up which allows me to get in the garden and pick beans after a hard rain or even in the rain.

The Maw Williams I planted in the country last year was the only row of beans, planted in dog kennel, in a two acre field." - Dick

Uh Oh!

I knew that limas would cross. So I spaced mine about 20' apart.

My seed all look the same as the originals of each variety, but I probably still got some crosses!

Bill's book Saving Seeds Preserving Taste, is in depth not only about beans but tomatoes and corn as well. I really enjoyed reading the stories associated with the seed origins.