annette

similar story, similar bean here.

i have pole beans given to me by my great uncle steve. he was born in sicily and came here in the early 1900s. i have been growing them for over 35 years. your pictures look VERY similar to my bean. learning the true name may be very difficult at this point in time. i would be willing to swap some seeds with you so we could compare them if you have any to spare. let me know.

keith

Does the pod turn mostly red, then dark purple over buff when dried? It might be Lingua di Fuoco (tongue of fire) I got mine from Thompson and Morgan but you can buy from Seeds From Italy, the US distributor of Seeds Of Italy.

See quick pictures here

Actually there are several named varieties that it could be related to originally. Since it left Italy so long ago, it could now be considered a separate variety. Maybe you could name it and offer to trade it? I'd trade you some Ma Williams or Lingua Di Fuoco for it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Seeds from Italy

Keith, I sent you an email.

Happy, I don't think so the pods are definitely not as red as the pictures I've seen of Tongue of Fire, too late to have a good look this year as they are long gone but will certainly have a close look next year. I didn't leave that many for seed this year so supply is short but will definitely have more seed to share next year. I've kind of committed what extra seed I have this year but will definitely let more go to seed next year.

Annette

I should also have mentioned most pods have 8 beans but some had nine, next year I'll pay more attention.

Annette

Annette, new bean grower here. I grew Dragons Tongue this year, its a bush bean, so not the same as yours but very similarly colored and I was wondering if when you cook yours they go a pale yellow or do yours keep some purple after cooking? Thanks. Kat

Kat, I've only used them as a snap bean, when steamed they lose their purple markings but stay green.

Annette

my uncle steve beans have between 5 and 7 seeds usually. they may be slightly wider with maybe a bit more of a curve. hard to tell from the picture.
other people have said mine are an excellent snap bean, an ok shelly bean, and a pretty good dry bean. i have only used them as snaps.
seeds from italy has a 2 or 3 beans with red coloring on them. i have one of those from my uncle steve too. haven't seen any with purple on them yet. i check the catalog every year, hoping to see something similar.

keith

I came across a jar of these beans that must be about 15 or so years old. I had them on my kitchen counter for some of that time then they got shoved in a cupboard and forgotten about. They've been in fluctuating temps all that time. I was going to toss them then thought I'd test a few just for the heck of it. Two of them went moldy but of the remaining 18 10 have sprouted so far. Not bad for seed kept in the worst of conditions. I plan to plant some of these next year and see how they do. I'll sprout them first tho :o).

Annette

I was given some seed, very similar (look identical) which produced pods which appear identical to the ones Annette posted. These came from James B. Smith Jr who received them from Owen Cooper of Morven Georgia. Owen's mother had the beans for years. Her name was Mrs Lula Belle Cooper.

Jame thought that this bean was very similar to Rattlesnake. Anyone grown Rattlesnake and have input?

By the way, Cooper's Running Snap proved itself VERY heat resistant. It produced like gangbusters through weeks of extreme heat and right up until frost. I've tasted snaps which I like more, but it's not bad, and it's exceedingly productive, making a nice large seed, in quantity.

George
Tahlequah, OK

Update on my old seed, I had a 70% germination after 15 or so years of neglect. I also found the notation I wrote down when first given this seed in 1965. This bean is said to have been brought here from Italy in 1910 by a Mr. Medves. For the time being I'm referring to them as Auntie Vi :).

They do look very much like the pictures of rattlesnake beans I've seen, do the seed of rattlesnakes have beige streaks turning darker as they age or do they have reddish purple streaks which turn dark purple as they age? In any case I just ordered rattlesnake so I can compare the seed and will grow a few next year, see if they match up.

Annette

They look very much like the Uncle Steve's pole beans I grew this year. Of course that doesn't mean that's what they are.

Jim

Jim, would you mind terribly starting a thread devoted to "Uncle Steve's pole," and let us know how this bean did for you in MA, pro and con on taste as snap, shellie, dry, frozen; yield; insect & disease tolerance; etc.

I like those threads devoted to one variety; they make good reference material (so long as people stay on topic).

I don't ask for much, as you can see....

Thanks for the information.....

Annette, Rattlenakes have a thinner pod and smaller bean than your Aunti Vi/Italians. Rattlesnakes dried are 3/8 to 1/2 inch long, about a third the size of my dried Borlotto Lingua di Fuoco, which look very much like your Italian photos above.

Dried, Rattlesnakes have darkpurple/blackish streaks on a mottled beige. All my Rattlesnakes are dried so can't compare to a fresh shellie but I did find some immature dried Rattlesnakes and they were a darker tan streaks against the beige.

The Borlotto Lingua di Fuoco shellies had reddish streaks drying to red/purple against a cream background. They were at least 1 to 1 1/4 inch long as shellies and are now 3/4 inch long and easily twice as thick/plump as the Rattlesnakes.

So Rattlesnakes are a good choice as a snap. They like heat but did very well for me this cool half-summer (regrown vines from July 24 hailstorm) In fact they produced more than the Borlotto Lingua di Fuoco. I haven't shelled all the Rattlesnakes and already I've got 1pound 12 oz of dry Rattlesnakes vs 1pound 4 oz of dry Borlotto Lingua di Fuoco.

Of course I did eat some of the Borlotto Lingua di Fuoco but not that many. I microwaved a bowl of them as shellies, they were very creamy. What are your Italians like as shellies?

Happy, I have Borlotto Lingua di Fuco bush bean seed, my Italian seed have the same colored markings but they are a slimmer seed, also the beans themselves were different, mine were definitely longer, more seeds per pod and the streaks were purple not the reddish color of the Borlottos I grew.
I'm hoping to grow my Italians, Uncle Steve's and Rattlesnake next year so I can compare them, I'll take pictures of both the beans and the seed and post the pictures.

The pictures of my seed above were fresh shelled they have shrunk some and are a darker color now they are completely dry, I've never eaten shellies just snaps so can't help there, something new to try next year :).

Annette

I just compared my Italian (Auntie Vi) to the Rattlesnake bean seed I received today. Rule that one out the Rattlesnake seed is only half the size of my Italian. My seed more resembles the picture of Uncle Steve's but I think mine has a longer pod, more purple streaks, more seed per pod. I hope to compare my Auntie Vi to Uncle Steve's seed in the next few days.
This is fast becoming addictive, I love reading the history and stories behind the beans talked about here. They all have special qualities in their own right.
I will keep on growing my oldies but will be trying one or two new to me each year. Before I forget is there a 12 step program for bean growers :).

Annette

Keith and I will have to wait till next year to be sure if Uncle Steve's and Auntie Vi's are the same or a different bean but, comparing the seed side by side this morning my seed looks slightly longer and slimmer than Keith's Uncle Steve's seed. We should know for sure after the next growing season.

Annette

Don't want to count my chickens before they're hatched but I may just may found the history on my italian beans. I was talking to a fella today who said my beans could very well be the bean a relative of his brought over from Italy in 1911 from the town of San Pietro in the provence of Udine in Italy. Two beans were brought over, a little brown/tan bean used for making pork and beans and another that could very well be my italian. Once he sees my seed he should be able to tell me if this is the same bean. Fingers crossed it's the same one, if so I'll come back with more details for those that have them.

Annette

Small world, Annette! Did he give you a name?

Happy, no he didn't give me a name. The funny thing is I've known this fellow for years, he worked at the same mill as my DH. He specializes in Dahlia, Glads and Chrysanthemums, the subject of beans has never come up. I was at a local plant sale and several people were wanting to talk to him so didn't want to hold him up.
If I've got the story right his grandfather came here in 1908, his wife and aunt followed in 1911 bringing these beans with them. His grandparents lived on the same street as I do now only in the first block, I'm in the last block, same street about a mile and a half away down the road. This italian bean was passed around the neighborhood and finally in 1965 a neighbor gave them to me. I've got my fingers crossed, as soon as mine are ready to pick I'll take him some of the beans plus some seed hopefully confirming it is the same bean. when I was given the seed in 65 I was told they came here in or around 1910 the rest of the story that was told me I think was incorrect if this is the same bean. If they are the same I'll resurrect this thread when or if I have more information.

Annette

I have grown that bean for ten years...Burpee sells it as Italian Rose.....Its an italian flat bean i eat mainly as a green bean and blanch alot of them for freezing....

I grow a bean for drying called cranberry...Both the Italian rose and cranberry give that exact same color dry bean....

Burpee probably has a picture on website....

That bean dried was my grandfathers favorite for stewing...I had some from last years garden sunday...

Baygrower, although the seed of my italians look very similar to Italian Rose, mine are pole beans Italian Rose is a bush bean, also my beans aren't as flat as Italian Rose.
I haven't been able to match my beans to anything so far, Uncle Steve's is the closest but there is slight differences in the size and shape of the bean seed. I've tried matching mine to quite a few different beans in my search to find out which one they might be, some have come close but no match so far.

Annette

Tell me a difference from my cranberry bean i grow and yours...The dried bean is the same...

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Baygrower, I couldn't possibly tell you the differences between your cranberry and my italian unless I had the seed side by side and then grow yours out and compare the green beans, this I'm doing with Uncle Steve's this year just to be sure in my own mind they are not the same. Mine as far as I know has always been grown to use as a green bean not used dry. I take it your cranberries are a pole bean, if you're interested in the results you could send me a few of your cranberries and I'd be more than willing to plant a few for a better comparison.

Annette

Sorry...didnt know it was a quest...Not interested in any kind of contact....I grow my italian flat-for green style bean- that produces the same dried bean bean as you showed green bean(bush)...Obviously you have some other interest in beans,,,,Cranberry produces smae bean i use for stewing..

Not interested then just trying to eat the chit myself.....

I would try not to romanticize food...

Baygrower,

Calm down. Annette isn't romanticizing. She's speaking rather objectively about the subtle difference between some similar varieties. Her offer was a generous one, to try growing some of yours beside her's to compare. That might resolve the question of whether they are the same bean or not.

I'm not positive that even that would resolve the issue. I grow two beans, which appear identical. It will be years before I'm comfortable in declaring them the same. Perhaps only a DNA study could resolve that question.

George
Tahlequah, OK

Unfortunately, it looks as though the rude people have discovered the bean forum.

Maybe if we ignore them, they will go away.