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cprice_gw

have hps, need mh?

cprice
19 years ago

I am in my first year of business growing heirloom vegetable & herb starts and selling them at Farmers Markets in California. I did not get to setting up my greenhouse for getting my seeds started so I am using my basement. I built a box that holds a waterbed mattress heated 24/7 at about 75-78F. I purchased a 400W HPS on Ebay without fully understanding the light spectrum I would achieve with this type of bulb. After finding this group, I better understand that I really should be using a Metal Halide MH lamp since there is no other light in the area I have my box set up in. For all you really smart growers...will this create a negative effect to the point of unhealthy or stunted plants? So far I have germinated lettuce and tomatoes with good success. The tomatoes are leggy but sturdy. I have just started my germination and have many more trays to go but would like to avoid the expense of another light system if possible. Thanks!

Comments (4)

  • shrubs_n_bulbs
    19 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi there, I just finished a rambling essay about plant growth and spectrum. Rather than repeat it you can read it, or not, at the link.

    The simple answer is that it is possible to grow many vegetables from start to finish under only HPS lights. Growth under a metal halide may in some cases be faster some growers claim a better quality crop from HPS light. In any case, HPS lighting is generally used for flowering, fruiting, and general finishing of commercial crops. HPS is about 10% more efficient. HPS light is a weird colour. There are HPS lamps available now that have a bulb coating to produce some blue light, and this may turn out to be the best of all worlds. Look for word like "enhanced coating". There is an enhanced HPS lamp called Son Agro (I think) but of course with the name comes more dollars.

    The simplest answer to etiolation is always a higher light intensity. Move the lamp a little closer. Or maybe you could put in a shop light with a couple of 40W cool lamps, which would give a little more light and a good boost to the blue. Then you'd actually be able to see what colour your plants are :)

    One last hint, using the lights for more hours each day generally produces more growth, but there is a limit to this. In tomatoes, there is nothing to be gained from more than about 14 hours of light each day. Too many hours of light can actually damage the plants.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Photosynthesis and photomorphogenesis

  • cprice
    Original Author
    19 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks again shrubs n bulbs, I will read your link.

  • paulemar
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can get a Metal Halide bulb for your HPS set-up. It is called a Metal Halide conversion bulb and meant to be used with the HPS Ballast. Make sure that you get the same 400 watt size and that the base of the bulb matches. Also be aware that the reverse MH to HPS conversion bulbs are also available.

    Paul

  • lermer
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Ceramic Metal Halide lamp will fit into your 400w
    HPS ballast. This is called "retro-white" and is way
    more efficient than other retrofits that use the old-
    style quartz arc tube technology.

    HPS is about 33% more efficient than standard Metal Halide
    for plant growth, particularly if you use enhanced HPS
    like Hortilux. The Hortilux is more efficient, producing
    more light in general. The blue spectrum is not
    signficantly enhanced, proportionately, and HPS produces
    very little besides yellow-orange.

    I read the article "Shrubs" self-references. Unfortunately,
    he does not provide links to the data he describes, so
    there is no easy way to verify his interpretations.
    I googled an article title, and received only a summary of
    another article. Perhaps the journals he references are
    available by subscription only. Thanks for the references,
    perhaps I will get the public library of Seattle to mail
    me xerox copies.

    Here are a couple of Shrubs' statements:
    "In particular the relative levels of red and far red
    (or near infrared) light are most important for
    controlling etiolation, but by far the most important
    factor is the intensity of the light."

    (Lermer) Perhaps here, "Shrubs" is referring to the
    excessive stem elongation that typically occurs with
    insufficient light. In nature, this typically occurs at
    the bottom of a forest canopy; and light toward the red
    end of the visible spectrum penetrates the canopy much
    better because it bends easier. This can be observed when
    the earth is in between the sun and the moon; the moon
    will appear red, because sunlight passing through the
    earth's atmosphere will bend, some hitting the moon. So in
    nature, low light levels are associated particularly with
    low levels of blue spectrum.

    Although high intensity of even red light can counter this
    excessive stem elongation, his article talks about his
    experiences with fluorescent lights, not a good idea
    beyond the seedling stage. The low intensity is good for
    only a few inches (assuming you don't have a whole bank of
    them). The leaves grow differently and maybe shocked when
    later placed under more intense light. (The flourescent
    reflector often blocks more natural sunlight than it
    artificially produces, so not recommended generally for
    greenhouses.) While it is true that infra-red and near
    infra-red can cause stretching, typically grow-lights do
    not produce excessive quantities in this region.

    What is more relevant, is the presence of blue light,
    which does reduce stem elongation. Ceramic Metal Halide
    produces more blue than a normal MH, and more red than an
    HPS. Blue induces growth hormones, red induces flowering
    hormones; each has other functions as well. See:
    Artificial Lighting in Horticulture by Philips.

    (Shrubs) "A few experiments comparing gro-lux lamps, that
    concentrate most of the light emission in narrow red and
    blue bands, with standard cool white tubes, which have a
    spread of wavelengths in the red and blue and also some in
    the green, have shown no worthwhile difference."

    (Lermer) Dr. Norton of the Mount Vernon Ag station found
    that the sylvania gro-lux did worse than the standard cool
    white. The grow-lux spectrum was good, but obtained by
    filtering out the less efficient parts of the spectrum,
    resulting in low over-all intensity. But why even talk
    about "Gro-Lux"; I thought this bulb was discontinued.

    What you want generally is full spectrum light,
    efficiently produced to achieve sufficiently high
    intensity (i.e. about 4300 foot candles). Different stages
    prefer different parts of the spectrum, this can be fine
    tuned by using PSMH bulbs by Life Lights (that come in
    four different average color temperatures).

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