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ballplayer10123

Please help me get my tomato seeds off to a good start

ballplayer10123
13 years ago

Hi all. I am having serious trouble getting ANY of my tomato seedlings off to a good start. I have killed probably 100 tomato seedlings over the past 2 months.

I am attempting to grow them indoors. I have two separate grow areas. One area is 4x4 and has 2 400 W MH lights, circulation fans, and 265 cfm exhaust fan for air exchange. The other area is about 2x5 and has a 4 ft 4 bulb HO T5 fixture, circulation fans, and 265 cfm exhaust.

I am attempting to grow small Sungold tomatoes because my parents love them. I would like nothing more than to bring some Sungolds fresh from the indoor setup over to them.

I have tried literally everything I can think of to be successful at growing tomatoes indoors. (I actually was successful in growing a monster cherry tomato indoors this past winter, but I believe it was more luck than anything). I am ot the point of wondering if I am getting some toxic gases, herbicide leaching sabotaging my indoor gardens via my sump pump. Is that possible?

I have tried starting my tomato seedlings in every medium you could possibly think of. Sunshine Mix, prepared Rockwool, Fox Farm Light Warrior (plain seed starting mix), and Rapid Rooter plugs. I have accurate pH and EC meters at my disposal. I have tried starting the seeds at varying distances from my light bulbs. I have started seeds anywhere from 1.5 to 5 feet below my 400 W lights, and at every increment of 6" in between. Under the T5 lights I have started the seeds as far away as 15" and as close as 3 or 4".

I currently have about 15 tomato seedlings growing, NONE of which I would consider vibrant and healthy. The crazy thing is the ones I have in Rapid Rooters have INCREDIBLE healthy, hairy root growth.

The thing that really ticks me off is that symptoms are the SAME every single time I fail. Quite depressing. The seedlings emerge, cotyledon leaves appear to have decent health. However, the first true leaves become slow to emerge. They are typically smaller than they should be. The true leaves are light green, not yellow, but not even close to vibrant green like they should be. The cotyledons develop purple undersides, which spreads to the true leaves. The true leaves are small, an odd yellow green color, with red veins and lack any sort of vigor. They occasionally get random yellow streaks on the top of the leaves. I could share some pictures if that would help.

I see pictures of Phosphorus deficiency, and the problems look similar to mine. However, I cannot see how P could be my problem. My grow mediums are watered with lukewarm water. My grow areas are plenty warm enough to avoid P deficiency (typically 76-81 during day and 69-71 at night).

I have tried using General Hydroponics 3 part to cure the problems. I have tried Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow, and Bloom formulas to correct the problem. I have tried Earth Juice Microblast to try to figure out if is a micronutrient deficiency. I have tried using only plain water all the way through the seedling stage. I am using a mixture of calcium rich tapwater and RO water to achieve a starting EC of 0.1-0.2. I have tried high pH (6.8-6.9), low pH (5.8-6.0) and everything in between. I have tried waterng my mediums until 10-15 % runoff every irrigation. I have tried only watering the minimum with a friggin shot glass. I've tried fertilizing with each irrigation (0.5-1.1 EC). I've tried using only water for the first 1-2 weeks. I've done the water-feed-water-feed alternating schedule with EC strength of 0.5-1.1 and everywhere in between. Nothing seems to work.

Ladies and Guys I am at my wits end. I cannot believe a living things as resilient as plants can be so difficult to get correct. If someone would be willing to hold my hand through this process, and I provide pictures I would really be grateful.

I have tried anything and everything, that's what makes me think I may be having problems due to my sump pump being within a semi close proximity to my garden areas (within 15-20 ft).

All help will be very appreciated.

Comments (4)

  • wordwiz
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ballplayer,

    Sure looks like you keep trying. I'm not sure what the problem is but I can tell you how I do mine. I usually start 500-600 seeds a year, FWIW.

    First, I get one of those plastic to-go trays with a lid from a restaurant. Drill small holes in the bottom of it. I like Ferti-lome Ultimate Potting Mix though every once in a while, I find a small piece of bark or a twig that needs to be remove. I add about 1.5" of this, then use a tweezers to place each seed individually, just barely in the mix. Cover that with a thin layer of potting mix, maybe 1/4". Set the entire thing in a tub of either rain water or aerated (for 24 hours or more) tap water. Let it sit until the mix is sopping wet. Remove it, put the lid on the tray and either place it on a heat mat set to 85 degrees or during summer, just on a bench. I do not water it again, at least not for a week or more.

    Usually within 3-5 days, the first seeds germinate. As soon as they do, I put them under CFL bulbs, as close as I can after removing the lid.

    When the mix is almost dry, I set the container back in the tub but usually add a very small amount or Tomato-tone fertilizer. This is lower in nitrogen but high in other ferts plants need to develop good roots. Put it back under the lights, then repeat as necessary.

    Once the seedlings develop at least one good set of leaves but usually two, I prepare nursery trays. Fill with potting mix, set in that tub of water and compact the mix, then refill and compact again. Let it sit, usually for an hour or more - however long it takes to throughly soak the mix. Remove it from the tub, set it aside for the evening. By the next day, excess moisture has drained off.

    Using my finger, I poke a hole in the mix. I gently remove the seedling (it helps to have that mix damp, but not wet) and place it in the hole until just the leaves are showing, then tamp the mix around it. When I finish a tray (6-36 plants) I put it under lights, again as close as I can.

    Then, I let the plants grow, watering them only when the mix gets dry (usually the plants will start to wilt a bit).

    Once the plants get 8-10" tall, I transplant them into 5-7 gallon pots.

    That's for my dirt plants. Next is the hydro ones.

    HTH,

    Mike

  • wordwiz
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Until recently, I was having quite a struggle getting seedling to either germinate or the ones that did survive more than a week or two. I'm getting better at it, except with Trust tomato seeds. Those things, despite costing more than 60 each, are poor at germinating, in both dirt and rockwool.

    I like the 2" rockwool cubes, the ones with pre-punched holes in the top. I cut them apart and place them in a tray. Use a tweezer to add two seeds per cube, placing them about 1/4" deep. After I'm finished, I add enough water to the tray for the cubes to wick-up until more than 3/4 of them are wet. Put the tray on a heat mat or in summer, on a bench in a place where it does not receive sunlight.

    Once I see a seedling emerge, the tray goes under lights - again as close to them as possible. I only add water, and then rain water or tap water, when the cubes start to dry out, at least until the seedling has two or more sets of leaves. Then I may add a small amount of fert to the water.

    My solution:

    I use Eco-Grow in a DWC system. The ppm is about 900 and the pH 6.5. I set the rockwool cube in the net pot and add just enough water so that it reaches the very bottom of the cube. Fill the net pot with lava rocks or hydroton. Once roots start showing through the net pot, I let the water level drop a bit but always make sure some of the roots are in the solution.

    My latest plants are not to the blooming stage yet (only a bit over four weeks old) so I don't know if I'll switch to a bloom nuit or not - I will not if it doesn't have a decent amount of calcium, as BER seems to dog me. I keep the MH light close enough to the plants that I can feel warmth on the back of my hand. I also have a small fan blowing on the plants, mostly to help strengthen the stems.

    HTH,

    Mike

  • ballplayer10123
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you for the details of how you start your seeds. I will try to replicate as much of the process as I can. I will probably use standard 4 ft fluoro tubes (instead of the HO ones, or CFL's) because I already have 4 of them on hand. I have been using a heat mat and humidity dome to keep temp and humidity high for the starts. I got 100% germination on about 15 tomatoes and 20 peppers this last round. However, none of the start look too promising.

    I am starting to really believe very poor indoor air quality may be the culprit to my problems near my grow area. I dont believe I could possibly screw up over a hundred attempts without at least a couple making it. I am going to try to start some more seeds in a very sunny window of my home, just to see if they emerge without the constant stress they seem to be encountering elsewhere.

    Thank you again for your interest and instructions.

  • wordwiz
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't start seeds where they get light - they don't need it! Wait until the first seedling emerges, then stick them under light.

    Me, I would put them outside then. No light is as good as sunlight and the outside air will not hurt them.

    Mike

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