You have asked many questions, which will be answered by many others, I am sure. Make sure you do a complete search in this and other forums to get a balanced view. There are people here always trying to sell you some thing.

I do have an off-topic comment to you and others, if you don't mind.

You don't have to limit yourself to growing things in the basement or garage.

I have a 400w MH fixture which I have next to my home office for growing many things and start seedlings. If you pay a little attention, the whole setup can be very nice looking, it doesn't have to be messy.

I get free spill-off light for my work area from the MH grow light while the plants are growing.
dcarch

dcarch,

Those tomatoes look Fan-tas-tic!!!!! I agree with your response to jeremysobczak. I only grow chard and romaine at this time because I am limited to a shop light 48" Fluorescent and 200watt Compact Fluorescent (from Canada) at this time. I am satisfied with my results however.

DL

Jeremy, welcome to the wild world of plant grow-lights. Just started researching it myself because I am building a winter-time seedling nursery in my basement. Because there are no online plant-lighting "cookbooks", as dcarch has noted to you, it takes a good amount of web searching and reading to really get a good handle on "da real facts". (BTW, dcarch, those tomato bonsai are awesome!!! I'm going there!) The useful and valid web info is mixed in with a LOT of misconceptions, hyperbole, and outright lies. The sales marketing info is no better. Caveat emptor!!!

I was shopping complete system packages like you but got "lucky" and found a good deal on some used HPS equipment locally. Maybe not too lucky because after more research I realized I'm more interested in metal halide lighting. So now will spend some more money to buy retro-fit equipment. (should still come out ahead $wise) Lesson learned is: determine what you want to grow then determine what specific type and amount of light you need. The most important part of buying equipment is to FIRST choose the right bulb(s) and then choose the equipment that best supports the bulb.

Since you mentioned an HPS system I guess you're more interested in HID lighting than fluorescent lighting. IMO for your application HID is better choice by far. You already seem aware that plants respond differently to different types of light. Blue-end promotes vegetative growth, red flowering and all that. If not familiar, read up on that. Since I'm focusing on growing seedlings and young plants, I want a lot of blue-end light. Metal halide (MH) is best for blue-end and HPS is best for red-end. I read that many sunless commercial growers start out with MH on young crops and switch over to HPS if/when flowering becomes important. A continous MH/HPS mix is used by some. From my understanding, when no sunlight is used and you can only pick one bulb, MH is typically the better choice. That makes me a bit concerned for how successful you would be trying to crop many different things using HPS alone. Other folks, chime in.

Keep in mind that electricity costs adds up and becomes a major part of the equation. You want to get the type lighting that is most efficient at producing the type light your plants will benefit from the most. Do you use lumens and color temperature to help decide this? This question is the source of countless debate and argument. Do yourself a huge favor and read up on all you can about the photosynthesis absorption curve, action curve, PAR , PUR and most importantly of all PPFD. PAR and PPFD are at heart of what plants want, not lumens. I'm sure that many out there now class me as a "non-believer" and will post to say how wrong I am. Whatever. Just do the reading for yourself. I'm about to start a thread about the aquarium lighting community. As a whole, they are much more ahead of the curve than the terrestrial plant lighting community. Check them out. Unfortunately the aquarium people don't use HPS so they don't provide much help there. There is a lot more to the MH/HPS story that you would benefit in exploring.

I checked out the Daystar system you linked. Not a bad system but as a one bulb 1000w HPS system it's a significant commitment to HPS. Based on what you say you want to grow, you might consider splitting that 1000w into part HPS part MH. Yeh, I know, that means more equipment. Well, how much do want to get great lettuce AND great bell peppers? What the hey, you know you can buy the veggies at the store for a lot less money than growing them in your basement anyway. This is as much hobby as anything else. If you are pretty good with tinkering, there are ways to piece things together, save money off the pre-packaged stuff and arrive at a customized system that suits your needs much better.

How quickly do you want to make your decision and buy equipment? If you can spare another couple of weeks at least, I think you can research it more and make sure you are making the best decision for your needs.

Thanks everyone, especially cardiocrinium, for your thoughtful replies.

I know a lot of people here probably frown upon this, but I'm hoping to get this started without learning too much about the science behind it. I'm a full time student and I guess I'd just rather focus my learning elsewhere at the moment. That said, I have done a fair bit of reading up on the subject and browsing of this forum. I understand the difference between MH and HPS in regards to the type of light they give off and what plants need at different stages of development, but I couldn't tell you what any of those acronyms stand for.

I've noticed that there are a number of ballasts, including some by Hydrofarm, that can switch between MH and HPS. It has also come to my attention that there are HPS bulbs that have extra blueish light as well as MH bulbs that can be used with an HPS ballast. Since bulbs aren't the largest expense, as compared to say, the ballast, I thought I might just purchase multiple bulbs and switch them as needed.

Does this sound like a good idea? What would be best between (1) using a switchable ballast and going from an MH bulb to an HPS bulb, (2) using an MH bulb designed for an HPS ballast and then switching to an HPS bulb, or (3) just using an HPS bulb with more blue light? I'm still looking at the Hydrofarm ballasts, but am open to looking at other options as well. I haven't settled on any particular bulbs yet. Any suggestions, bearing in mind that I'm trying to accomplish this on a budget? Once again, I would like to grow both leafy and fruiting vegetables.

How well does mounting the ballast on one of those moving tracks work, should I look into this? Hydrofarm sells (or used to) a 6-foot long track.

Finally, I read a post about inadequate timers ruining ballasts. I really don't want this to happen. The timer I was planning to use I got at radioshack and is labeled as a "mini lamp/appliance timer", so I'm afraid it might not be a good choice. It says under specifications:
15A (1875W) Resistive
15A (1875W) Tungsten
15 Amps Inductive "TV-5"
1/3 HP Motor Load
125VAC, 60 Hz

Will this work or will it mess things up? If this won't work, can someone point me towards a timer that will?

Incidently, I'm not too concerned with the electrical expense. I computed it out and it looks like it should only be around $25 a month for a 1000 watt bulb, not including energy lost by the ballast. I figure it won't be more than $30 a month, which really isn't bad at all.

Thanks much and Happy New Year!

jeremysobczak,

Don't worry too much about science. People here will be more than happy to help you out. Don't let other crazy threads in this forum discourage you. It got out of hand because someone has been spreading bad information.

Back to your situation:
I am not sure how a timer can mess up a ballast. A timer that's not rated properly can be messed by a high current ballast, OTOH. The timer you mentioned should be able to handle 1,000 watts of ballast load.

I don't see the value of moving track setups for most people.
1. Expensive purchasing.
2. expensive repairs.
3. Takes up a lot of headroom.
4. expensive installation.
5. Uses electricity to operate the motor.

If you have a few fixtures placed properly in a reflective area, it will make no difference if the lights are moving or not.

dcarch

dchard,

Thanks! Who is spreading bad information?

Any thoughts on bulbs?

The timer looks OK, but you might want to test it while you can still exchange it. Total inductive load should theoretically be 1,800W which sounds like plenty, but in practice that is shaving it a little thin for continuous operation of a 1,000W bulb plus potentially 200W of ballast losses (if you get a poor ballast), plus the big power spike needed to start HPS and pulse start metal halides.

My first thought is that switching from metal halide to HPS is unnecessary for most growers. It has become a mainstay of cannabis growers who have extreme requirements from their lighting and also have developed precise timetables of the lighting used at each stage of their crop. For a general crop of several different vegetables, possibly with overlapping growth cycles, this is simply not practical. I would suggest getting a good bulb which will support all stages of your crop. On the other hand, little is lost by trying different bulbs except for the up front cost of buying them all. I don't like the "blue HPS" type bulbs, if you feel you want to run HPS but also that you need more blue light, get yourself an actinic fluorescent, one or two 40W tubes will give you all the blue you need without messing up your HPS performance. It also makes it much easier to check how well your crops grow without the blue light, which might be just fine and dandy.

If you want to swap out bulbs at various times, the tried and tested "conversions" bulbs, allowing you to run metal halide on an HPS ballast and vice versa, should be avoided like the plague. They are the solution for a problem which no longer exists and they come with severe performance problems. Get yourself a switchable ballast and you can run what you want when you want and get optimal performance (ie maximum light output) from all the bulbs. Many of the electronic ballasts are switchable anyway and you should really be looking for an electronic ballast. Mostly because electronic ballasts have much lower ballast losses (saving you 10%-15% of your electricity), but also because they improve lumen maintenance and bulb life. Another option is to choose an HPS ballast and plan on running a "retro HPS" metal halide when you want a spectrum with more blue light. These are pulse start metal halides which are designed to exactly match the electrical characteristics of an HPS bulb and so run optimally on an HPS ballast, as pulse starts they have excellent performance.

Just noticed dcarch's query about how a timer could mess up a ballast. Ballasts are damaged by any low quality power supply, and running through a timer that is struggling (or worse, is not rated for inductive loads) can definitely cause damage. A more insidious problem is that most ballasts generate a significantly higher load when starting the light. They are not designed to handle this high load continuously or frequently, but a borderline timer may cause the ballast to have to try the starting sequence multiple times before getting the lights on. The ballast will suffer it it keeps doing that.

shrubs_n_bulbs, thanks so much for that info.

Do you, or anyone else, have any recommendations on switchable ballasts and 1000 watt bulbs (for vegetative and flowering, say greens and peppers), either MH or HPS?

If I'm doing this in a large, unfinished room in my basement (which includes the furnace, water heater, washer and dryer), do I have to worry about temperature/ventilation?

Thanks again for all the great information!

Shrubs is correct re. timer and ballast.

Come to think of it, there is a capacitor in the magnetic ballast design. So in addition to inductance there is also capacitance to consider. When you have capacitance and inductance together, instantaneous current loads can be unexpected.
Furthermore, there are many different ways electricity is turned on/off in a timer. Some timers have contacts actually bounce, which can again, cause unexpected stress to ballasts.

dcarch

"If I'm doing this in a large, unfinished room in my basement (which includes the furnace, water heater, washer and dryer), do I have to worry about mperature/ventilation?"
If they are electric, I am no sure about ventilation.
If they are gas, your basement had better be well ventilated.
Temperature may or may not be ideal, depending on what you are growing. Freezing should not be a problem.

dcarch
"

My furnace and water heater are both gas-powered.

The room is ventilated in the respect that it has cold-air returns connecting to it, and it has a door that has, thus-far, remained open to the other, finished half of the basement, but we usually keep the door to the basement itself closed.

The DayStar reflector has a ventilation option to keep air flowing through it, and this is what I was talking about. Do you think there may be other ventilation issues? I don't want to bother with the ventilation if it isn't required.

At this point I'm just trying to think about possible problems I might have so that I can start with a good set-up and not be too-surprised by things.

I'm guessing that power may be a problem, so I'm thinking about installing a new breaker just for the light.

I started seeds in my basement last year, I have a heated room with ordinary 4' shop lights with an average on time of 16 hrs.. I placed a fan in the room after they germinated to prevent any damping off etc. I grew them till this way till spring

Jeremy, a few more tips for ya if you haven't already made a decision.

first off a great guide is "Gardening Indoors" by george van patten, i have found this book to be indispensable in setting up my first indoor garden (last month). the book reviews electricity and lighting in depth and he discusses pros and cons of various lighting configurations as well as ventilation, soil, hydroponics, fertilizers, stages of growth, propagation, etc. if you can get your hands on it, highly recommended, easily the best investment i made as a rookie (and no im NOT affiliated with the publisher or author in ANY way :)

ok, about ventilation; you will definitely need at least 1 oscillating fan to prevent stagnant air around plants, and push them around to get them to develop stong limbs (important more so with the taller / woody stem plants like peppers or tomatoes)

also if the space you used is enclosed (i would recommend enclosing it and then covering with reflective material to get most out of your lights) you will also need a blower or inline fan to exchange the air in the growing room at least once every few minutes and prevent heat\humidity build up. if the space is open this will not be a big deal and the osc fans should do fine, but you will lose a lot of valuable light that could be reflected.

you also might want to consider 2 600W or 400W bulbs as 2 smaller bulbs can actually be more efficient then 1 large one (you can get them closer to the plants without burning, as well as distribute the light more evenly over a larger area obviously at more cost though

Personally im running a 430W phillips "son-agro" HPS bulb in a 3.5'X4.5' 6.5'high 'closet'. with vent and osc fan and its working great! actually my first cayenne peppers popped out of the flowers this morning.

any way good luck with your growin'

I am an old retired guy and have been trying to grow some good tasting tomatoes in the basment.I hate the store bought tomatoes you get in the winter not to mention the 3 bucks a pound. I started with MH/HPS bulbs bought two 400 watt light fixtures in a six by ten room insulated and vented with temrature control. The two generated way too much heat. I cut back to one 400w and the temp still went to 100 deg tried heavy venting and finally got it down to 80 deg or so with two vent fans still to hot. This year I swithched to the new T5 floresent lights I am running two four foot four bulb fixtures and the temp is perfect. Very little venting is used to maintain about 70 deg the tomatoes are growing like crazy and very good color.Another plus these fixtures are only 240 watt so the two only use about what the one 400 watt MH/HPS used. Plus the savings on less venting is good. I am sold the T5 with both blue and red spectrum bulbs are doing a great job. We will see how much fruit they will produce.

fredhood, how tall are your tomatoes so far? I've grown them previously under old, cheap T8 shoplights, but they got lanky once they got taller, although I did get some blooms indoors before I put them outside.

I have a T5 high output under which I have tropical waterlilies overwintering, and they are doing WAY better than they used to with the old shoplights. I just put some orchids under there, and they are getting happier too.

One commonly hears/reads that "blue" light has the effect of making leaves thick and plants compact. I ran across an table within an article that mentions ultra-violet a(uV-a) light as being the light that has these effects. The url is:
http://ss.jircas.affrc.go.jp/kankoubutsu/jarq/33-3/tazawa/table4.htm
You really should read the article the table comes from, it is an easy read and a good overview.
http://ss.jircas.affrc.go.jp/kankoubutsu/jarq/33-3/tazawa/tazawa1.htm

uV-a light is "close" to blue but is NOT blue light. If the author is correct, it bears considering whether your setup gets any uv-a on your plants. Manufacturers generally design bulbs so as to eliminate or minimize ultraviolet light due to safety concerns, with the exception of specialized bulbs where uV is desired. One can speculate that this may help explain why artifically lighted plants seem to be more robust when they get some sunlight. Other than that, I'm not really prepared to recommend any specific ways to get the required uV-a.

Fredhood:

Have you been able to raise tomatoes in your 6' x 10' room with T5 fluorescent lighting? What kind? How big? Taste good? What kind of light are your planning to use this winter?