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I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

Posted by aliska12000 5 (My Page) on
Mon, Jul 17, 06 at 18:42

again at my friend's insistence, it's hotter than blazes out there. Ditch lilies are so common around here, and I'm not a big fan of orange, but these are unusual. They are growing on a vacant lot hillside where I got my moss rose cuttings, one might make it. The owner would probably let me dig some up this fall. The first looks like an oriental, the second looks like it belongs in the daylily forum; it is double. I rather like them. No care, drought conditions and look how well they are doing among the brush.

Has anyone seen any like these before? Maybe not so unusual to those who know their lilies.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

I have both of theses growing in my yard. The top one is a lily - I believe an oriental species type.

the bottom one is a double ditchlily

I love the top one, I just planted them in the fall and they are blooming -- huge like 4-5' tall.

That would be great if you can get these for free,
Maureen


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

  • Posted by phylrae z5a/centralNYS (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 17, 06 at 19:33

I'm pretty certain the top ones are orange tiger lilies (tigrinum). Phyl


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irish rose grower, phylrae

I thought orange tiger lilies were synonymous with ditch lilies. These look kind of like stargazer only orange. I believe they are leaning so to get some sun.

Anyway, I wonder how hard it would be to dig the bulbs, how deep they might be, how much of it I have to get. There are lots of places I could put them, and if they multiply and tolerate dryness, they would solve a problem I'm having with my back terrace.

I'm tired of the ordinary orange ones, there is one that sprang up on my neighbor's property hidden from him and close to my line, and it is going to multiply. It is not getting enough sun and is scraggley. Oh well. One thing at a time.

I could try some bulbs in some different spots and see how they do. I do like the double ones a lot. I like the other ones, too, was going to order some stargazers and a yellow and possibly a couple other kinds of daylilies. If I can get these free, I won't have to pay for so many. I don't want too many until I see how they are going to work.

I just hope they aren't too hard to dig because if they are, I will have to pass them up or find someone to help.

While I'm asking the landowner's permission, I wonder if I dare ask if I can dig up that old rose. I'm so afraid I won't be able to get it out there without damaging it or that it won't transplant well. There would be a lot of stuff to chop through to get down and around the roots to get enough of a root ball. I should ask on the rose forum whether it is better to transplant roses in spring or fall.

Thanks to you both!


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

The first one, as already mentioned, is a true Tiger Lily. There was a thread about them recently with more info. You can propagate them from those little bulblets on the stem, but it takes awhile. They are definitely not hard to dig up, about 3-4" down there will be a flaky-looking white bulb. It's best to move them in spring before they sprout, or fall after the stems have turned brown. They will also multiply from individual bulb scales removed from the bulb and planted.

Mine are growing against an east facing wall under an overhanging eaves, and don't get much water or any special care. They are very hardy too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tiger Lily Thread


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northspruce,

Thanks, northspruce. Looks like I have several options. I got the property owner's name today and will try to contact him. My friend assures me he won't care. I want to ask anyway.

If I get them dug up (I want both kinds), I will probably put them on the east side of the house as I'm reserving the south-facing front for peonies, iris and don't know what else yet.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

Northspruce gave you good advice, tigridium lilies should be pretty easy to dig in the fall & multiply quickly. I love them. I don't find that the double form of the ditch lily to multiply quite as fast as the regular one, which I am having to roundup now, it got really out of hand.
If you can't dig the rose, maybe you could take cuttings. I have good luck with roses by taking cuttings in October (since you are cooler you might try earlier), finding a cool, shady spot & just stick them in the ground. Keep them watered. It kind of varies with variety on how well they take, but if this is an older type it will probably work well, & be easier to deal with than a large, thorny shrub. I know I have good luck with groundcover & shrub rose types, not so much with more formal hybridized types.


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ngraham

I posted in the antique roses forum along with 2 photos, just got back from looking up the owner on the plat map at the city.

I'll just be happy to get permission to dig some lilies, I just hate to think that that bush might be destroyed. I did take 6 cuttings in the spring, they all died but two, one has a tiny leaf and the two others still have green stems. I should be happy if those make it to plant stage.

OK, cuttings in October. Can you be more specific? Would that be a softwood cutting (this year's growth), hardwood, or somewhere in between?

Thanks for your advice. I think I should focus my energy on finding other plants people might be willing to give me locally.

Gotta run. Son just brought over two huge buckets of rhubarb, both wells of the sink are full. Have to cut it up to freeze. Oh my.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

I'm not a rose expert, just want to let you know what works for me. Mine were this year's growth, but nice firm cuttings. I took them early enough to get them rooted well before the weather turned cold, they seemed to root in about a month. I've taken spring cuttings, but not as much luck as fall.
If you want to dig the rose, you might can do that successfully, it is just more hazardous. The older the rose though, the larger the root system & harder on the plant to move. Be sure to cut it back well, & do it early enough it can re-establish before cold weather. Of course, experts might suggest doing that in early spring while it is still dormant, but when I moved mine they were actively growing.
I always hate when nice plants are lost. My in-laws are moving out of a house that have some wonderful daffodils & a couple of peonies I would love to have. I'm going to try to contact the owner & see if I can dig them before they bulldoze. There is also a rose bush my mother-in-law planted I really meant to take some cuttings from.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

I understand what you mean about losing plants. A lot of people feel that way. When they move, they try to take as many with them as they can. When I was younger, I dug up a bunch for my step-mother when they moved and planted at the new house. My, I didn't know what I was doing, but knew enough to get as much of the root as possible. I just didn't know at the time to mix a little peat and fertilizer in the soil that you take out of the new hole. I did know enough to water well.

It is hard to understand destroying perfectly good plants. People should try to give them to somebody competent who will appreciate them before they bulldoze. I'd think hard before destroying any established plants that amount to anything, partly because you know somebody cared enough to take the time and effort to plant them there in the first place.

I think I'll try a few more cuttings this fall, maybe late August because we sometimes have a hard freeze in Oct. The ones I have now I took in early June, it's been about 5 or 6 weeks, about 4 out of the twelve (actually a few extras I stuck in the ground, those died almost right away) do have some baby leaves but that doesn't mean they have rooted. That rose doesn't look like it will have any hips to amount to anything.

It will be too hard to do it right, I realize that now, unless I pay somebody who knows how and is it worth it? I don't know. Not really if I end up with 2 bushes of my own from cuttings. I would like to have a couple to trade, too, or for my kids if they are interested.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

Sorry, gave you wrong info on the lily, I have to remember it is a Tiger lily.

And did I read correctly that those little black bumps on the stems are bulblets.

good luck with digging them up.

Maureen


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Be still my heart

After some difficulty, I finally got to talk to the man who owns the property with the lilies. Once I had mentioned it to his daughter, he thought maybe he should dig some out for his wife. He said I could dig some and I explained why it is best to wait until late September or early October. He told me those lilies just sprang up this year, they hadn't been there before. I told him the one was a tiger lily and the other was a double lily just like the single kind they have in their yard and if I can just get a few going, they will spread.

Then he said he was thinking about cutting all that brush out of there. I said "Oh, please don't dig out that rose. Why don't you dig it up for your wife?" He does landscaping on the side but mostly lawn mowing. So I hope the rose is safe for now. The status of my cuttings is precarious.

Now I'm toying with the idea that if his wife doesn't want the rose, I could pay him to dig it up for me and plant it in my yard . . .I will have to get the word to him about that.

To the person who wanted more info and photos. I'll try to get them, I just got sidetracked contacting all these people today. I'm so attached to that rose now. I suppose I could buy lilies like that . . .


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

The daylily you are calling double ditchlily is Kwanso Fulva. I have it growing a couple of places on my farm. It's a pretty tough daylily and can be moved anytime (of course it's always best in the spring or in cool weather but can be done now with care). Keep it watered.

Don't you wish they could hybridize this in an apricot or gold color.
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That is one gorgeous lily!

It doesn't look like what I dubbed the double ditch lily though. Is that the one you are calling Kwanso Fulva or my double orange one?

That lily you posted is beautiful just the way it is. Maybe you can try some crosses since you've got yours going well.

Transplanting now? I don't think so. The six-day forecast is 90-100 and very humid; I can't work outside in that. Just maintain what I've started.

I will have to wait until fall when it is cooler. I did fine in the spring, got a lot of hard (for me) work done, then it gets hot and I'm done. I'm fighting turning on my one window a/c but will probably have to.

We have a huge race tomorrow, and the medics are concerned and ready. I am hoping to photograph the beginning of it. Last couple years weren't too bad, was reading an article, one year they treated 222 cases of heat problems, and I thought a couple runners died, 7-mile hilly course.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

As others have stated, your top picture is a true lily (tigridium) from a bulb and the stem has leaves growing on it, with bulblets at the leaf axis. Also note the recurved petal and spots. I have a double one. Plant those bulblets and they will bloom in about 2 years.
the second picture could be the daylily Flore pleno, flower lookes like it is stacked, probably with green leaves? Daylilies (hemerocallis) have their leaves growing from the ground from rhyzomes. There is also a variegated leaf Kwanso, with the same double flower, but its petals have a very waddy center, like a peony. Their clumps are very spreading-- not tight, neat clumps like Stella deOro. the problem is you CANNOT use it for hybridizing-because it is the species of daylily that has 3 sets of chromozone, and will not interbreed with either the DIP hemerocallis (1 double set of chromozone) or the TET hemerocallis (2 double sets of chromozone). Since the 3 sets of chromozone are not divisible by 2, it usually won't set seed with other daylilies. and remember that when hybridizing double daylilies, the pod parent must be the double. Go to the daylily forum to get more info about them.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

"As others have stated, your top picture is a true lily (tigridium) from a bulb and the stem has leaves growing on it, with bulblets at the leaf axis. Also note the recurved petal and spots. I have a double one. Plant those bulblets and they will bloom in about 2 years."

Yes, that is pretty clear now. I don't know all that much about lilies, have never attempted to grow any before.

"the second picture could be the daylily Flore pleno, flower lookes like it is stacked, probably with green leaves? Daylilies (hemerocallis) have their leaves growing from the ground from rhyzomes. There is also a variegated leaf Kwanso, with the same double flower, but its petals have a very waddy center, like a peony. Their clumps are very spreading-- not tight, neat clumps like Stella deOro."

The leaves on this one grow what I describe as fountain-like, from the ground; it does belong in the daylily forum; I just lumped them both together here. I didn't think it looked like the other sample posted, that one has more petals and is just different. Since everything is such a jungle where it is currently growing, I'm not exactly sure how it would grow in less crowded conditions. I just thought it was pretty and don't usually care for orange lilies or the so-common ditch lily we have all around here. I didn't notice any variegated leaves.

"the problem is you CANNOT use it for hybridizing-because it is the species of daylily that has 3 sets of chromozone, and will not interbreed with either the DIP hemerocallis (1 double set of chromozone) or the TET hemerocallis (2 double sets of chromozone). Since the 3 sets of chromozone are not divisible by 2, it usually won't set seed with other daylilies. and remember that when hybridizing double daylilies, the pod parent must be the double. Go to the daylily forum to get more info about them."

I don't care that it is no good for hybridizing, but that is interesting information. I've no interest in hybridizing anything at this point, especially that one, just hope they transplant successfully and spread out some but not so much as to become invasive and crowd out other lilies I hope to grow.

Hybriding would be fun, but the results are too unpredictable, I'm a little more interested in old roses, and I wouldn't want to throw out baby plants. I want to control the lilies I do plant by purchasing or being given certain particular ones I like. If they happen to cross naturally, well I may or may not be happy about the results of that.

Thanks much for the input. It's kind of daunting trying to figure out how I will pull all this together. I can't plant too many at once, too much work. These particular ones look like they won't be too fussy if I don't damage anything while transplanting them, which like I said before, I will wait until fall (cooler for me) even though one poster said I could do it now.

If I get to feeling too pressured, can I go and collect some of those bulblets and try them instead of digging the bulbs? When would be the right time for that? It looks like it might be easier but would probably take longer for mature lilies. At this point I have to be realistic because I've bitten off more than I can chew for one growing season. In July and August, I am not going to be able to do much other than basic maintenance and watering because of the heat, although sometimes we get a short break. We have a two-day one now, but it is still pretty hot out.

Thank you and everyone else who has been so helpful about these lilies.


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I just drove by there

Most of them aren't blooming now but just a couple, and a lot have died back, don't know if anything has been done to them or not. I'm going to have trouble knowing which ones are the bulbs for the double one.

The tiger lily is easier to identify because of the foliage, but all the bulblets appear to be gone. So scratch that idea. But digging the entire bulb is still an option.

Interestingly, I just drove by our local conservatory which is fairly new. They built it in a modern style with a very high terraced, earth berm, presumably to help with heating costs, I don't know.

Anyway, what is the featured attraction all along the long berm that faces the busy street? Ditch lilies.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

I always disliked the name 'ditch lilies' and it is usually spoken with distain--I call them road-side lilies, just a gentler name, as anything flowering can't be all bad. Kwanso daylily had a green leaf and varietaged leaf form. You can dig it up whenever you have the time & energy to do it-even in full flower. Their rhyzomes are within 6" of the surface and is easy to remove if it spread too much. The daylily plants are almost care free, with rust being a problem in the south. My problem with daylilies is the beautiful ones that I want are $100--well not going to find that in my yard. LOL. As for the tiger lily, be sure to dig down enough to not cut the bulb-start with a shovel 6" away from the stem and then use you hand to be sure you are down fall enough. if you damage the bulb, plant all the pieces, and you may get extra ones to grow. Like you, the only thing I do during the end of July and August is pick tomatoes and look at the yard from the house-oh, and water the 6 planters on the front porch, and deadhead the merigold once a week-woops too much work all ready-I'm tired! Too hot and buggy! if you don't get these plant this year, get them early next spring, or worse comes to worse and you still want them, you could always buy them-have no regrets for what you can or can't do. Just have fun.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way, the heat sapped my energy, it was the same when I was younger, that's why I was never too successful of a gardener, I can do a little, but not a whole lot and just lugging water (hose won't reach some places) has made me rethink some of my grandiose plans.

I'll take your advice. Like you said I can buy some, there are some more of those tiger lilies on a property nearby, they probably spread from there somehow or vice versa.

Maybe you can find someone with the $100 lily who will give you some bulblets. Don't give up. What the heck lily is that? And from now on I'll try to call them road lilies. They are so popular in town around here. I don't have to have the most expensive exotic plant I can find, I just like to have something a little different from what other people grow in the neighborhood.

That one lily the other poster posted a photo of is gorgeous, I never saw one like that in a catalog, I just must have sounded like I was dissing it because it isn't the same. I wouldn't mind one like that.

And while I'm on the subject, I passed up a chance to ask to dig the most gorgeous resurrection lily specimen, I have took a photo of it, got the property owner's name at the courthouse and everything, know it is not a true lily, it's lycoris squagimera (sp?). It should be blooming shortly if they haven't bulldozed, I'll swing by there and see if it is still there just for the fun of it. Most have purple tips, this one had sky blue and that is what I want. If I order one, I risk getting purple plus maybe it is the soil in which it grows.

That's enough about lilies for now.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

Here's my quadruple ditch lily (is that even the correct phrase? LOL!) I love it. I tried taking a side picture but it didn't come out. The petals are all layered on top of each other, so you can't see the multiple petals. I've got it mixed in with my other lilies and it gets the most comments. Sorry if the pic is large, I don't know how to compress these pics!

Grab some of those Lycoris if you can-the purple ones are hard to find, too! Get both!

HW

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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

That's a pretty one, too, thanks for posting.

I drove by there and the leaves are all lying flattened on the terrace, don't know what has happened; I didn't get a chance to mark the double ones while they were blooming. Looks like they've been driven over, but maybe the heat got them?

As to the other on another property further away, yes, I wish I'd been more aggressive about asking the property owners. They sounded rich and I was afraid if they thought they had something unusual, they'd be reluctant to share it, plus I didn't want to start digging until I knew what I was doing because there were only 3 or 4 and I didn't want to destroy them. They only reproduce by dividing the bulb.

I'll check and see if the lycoris are still there, fear they may have been bulldozed for housing by now, I took the photo in Aug 2003.

I don't know if I should dig some bulbs of that flattened leaf mess (orange ones) or not; don't know if they were single or double, they'd be easier to get to now, but if they've been sprayed . . .and I've got a full plate right now just trying to keep up with what I've got going in my yard.

I named the lycoris Wild Lily but know it is Lycoris Squamigera now. Most of the ones I see are mostly some shade of pink. I fear it would really be hard to find another one like this.


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

well ive never seen doubles on the roadside but rather ive got a few plants growing up under a dying pine tree. looks rather like that last picture. got a few flower stalks blooming right now. (of course, none in actual bloom today since i wanted to cut some for my mother)dont know if they are wild or were planted a good twenty years ago when the beds were last regular tended) got a wild batch of regular ones on the side of the yard that are likely to get moved this fall. i want to make a tulip and lily flower bed along the front of the house.


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ditch/tiger lilies

Please anyone out there, will gladly pay postage for "ditch" or tiger lillies you want rid of. My midwestern grandmother had big orange lillies growing all over her property and we loved them, they were great, bloomed all summer long. Some had speckles, some not. Having trouble finding them in Salt Lake Utah. Please contact Pat
flitter2454@msn.com seriously! I want them!


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RE: I thought these were your ordinary ditch lilies, but looked

flitter54, I hope I finally used your right email address. They're dug, packed and ready to ship once I get your address.


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