IMHO, you should find a very cool spot for them -- near to freezing -- and keep them there until spring. I may be wrong, but I would not expect maples to do well as house plants!

Need to know ...are they in pots ...what size ( if they aren't good luck you've got work to do pronto)...and when they get there also let us know... are they at least, to the human eye completly dormant, no green buds or early awakening signs let us know...This is a VERY bad week to get these shipped I hope they traveled only two or three days at most... and are not total babies ...it's record cold almost all accross the county David

I just got 2 dormant plants today. I potted then in 2 gallon pots and put them in an attached garage in an area that stays gold but doesn't freeze. I also set then on thin piece if plywood which should act as a thin insulation barrier. David

They are in gallon pots shipped from Boring, OR. They are dormant. I do not have a place other than my basement (55 F) to keep them from freezing. I do have a barn. I kept a crepe myrtle outside till late Dec. and put it in my basement till it began to leaf out around mid Feb. Then I placed it upstairs near a large south facing window where it could get sun - did fine. Will JM's do the same?

The barn is likely your best bet. Available light is not nearly the concern warmer temperatures may pose if you keep them indoors. If you think the barn still too cold, additional protection like grouping them together and covering (the pots) with straw, hay, pine straw, etc. should help. Even bubble wrap around the grouped pots will help.

For hardy woody plants, the last frost date is not a significant indicator for planting. These plants are frost hardy, as long as they are not induced into leafing out early by too warm conditions. As soon as your soil is workable they can be planted out, although you may want to be aware of late freezes (not frosts) like the Easter freeze last year that hit a good portion of the country. This occured after many plants had broken dormancy.

Crepe myrtles are nearly impossible to kill. Maples not quite so much.

The LAST thing you want to do is to have your maple leafing out early. As gg noted, they are very vulnerable when they are just coming out of dormancy.

I don't have a good feel for Michigan winters, but the barn is probably your best bet.

And remember what is dormant in Boring Or may not be 5B I stress this OVER AND OVER again in these forums..I have learned the hard way..it may look dormant it may feel dormant but the degree of dormancy may not be great it might Just be going in ( fall) or coming out (late winter)... since most of these folks overwinter in GH's or cold frames you just can't go by what they say FOR YOU ...they may be being perfectly honest and you wouldn't think twice if you only lived 100 miles away from them but this is NOT the case for YOU so be careful. Your only choice is the barn...keep them as insulated as possible and keep an eye on them when it starts to warm... water sparcly if not frozen solid ( once a month maybe)...Gallon pots or more likely 3 quart "growers gallons" are small so you can easily move them in and out in spring as needed...Your biggest worry is NOW not the spring...then it should be EASY. David

Dave (adriantmp)

Just put em in your basement and let them leaf out. Keep them there until all frosts are done and then plant them.

Conifers, Maples, "whatever" need one month of cold dormancy which they've already met at the nursery. It's the same in the bonsai world. I could keep a potted maple in my garage after they've dropped their leaves for one month and then immediately bring it in a greenhouse and let it leaf out.

Besides, my mother has had two Japanese Maples in her basement (even without a cold dormancy) for at least five years now. I'll admit her plants lost branches, but she never even took the time to up-pot them in all that time.

My other buddy in Chicago orders in Maples early, keeps them in his garage and if frosts aren't passed, he has a growlight and a heater. He keeps them there until he can permanetely take them outdoors.

There's so many options. Don't worry about anything. I know I'm not with the "usuals" here cause I don't frequent this forum, but you can take my word (and theirs).

Later,

Dax

I think that's a bit of a gamble to take with an investment such as a Japanese maple. All plants originating from temperate climates require a period of dormancy or rest - to deprive them of it for any extended period puts them at risk for potential decline and failure. Even bonsai enthusiasts recognize this essential element in temperate plant biology. Generally this is a period of no less than 1000 hours at temperatures of 40F or less or about 6-8 weeks but it varies with species.

"Tree species that have well-developed dormancy needs may be tricked to some degree, but not completely. For instance, if a Japanese Maple (Acer palmatum) is given an "eternal summer" through exposure to additional daylight, it will grow continuously for as long as two years. Eventually, however, a temperate climate plant will automatically go dormant, no matter what environmental conditions it experiences. Deciduous plants will lose their leaves; evergreens will curtail all new growth. Going through an "eternal summer" and the resultant automatic dormancy is stressful to the plant and usually fatal. The fatality rate increases to 100% if the plant does not receive the necessary period of cold temperatures required to break the dormancy. Most plants will require a certain number of hours of "chilling" at temperatures between about 0 °C and 10 °C to be able to break dormancy" (Bewley JD, Black M. (1994).

Woody plant dormancy is not quite as simple as waiting until the leaves drop off (for deciduous plants) and keeping them cold for 4-8 weeks and then allowing them to break dormancy and releaf. There is a predormancy period that is typically triggered by day length and falling temperatures and often starts in late summer, the actual dormancy period itself when nearly all growth is at a standstill and a quiescent or rest period before the plant emerges from dormancy in the spring. To consistently shortcut these necessary stages in a plant's annual growth cycle affects hardiness - both cold hardiness and in response to other environmental stressors - bud development and overall growth as these periods stimulate the development of auxins and other necessary growth hormones.

While it is not my intent to dismiss anyone's firsthand experience, it seems that there is far more emphasis placed on anecdotal experience on this forum rather than any real understanding of botany/plant morphology and that the "successes" described and waved about to poo-poo any scientific basis are typically a result of blind luck that may or may not carry through in the future. It's up to you what you want to do with your plants

'Bonsai Almanac Video Series Volume One' "Thriving Bonsai" cites one month of cold period to induce dormancy as being all that's needed (as mentioned in my previous post).

I wouldn't even be the slightest bit concerned if it were a 'special' maple or a piece of junk shrub/tree that only youlike.

Like she siad, do as you want. Remember it's freakin' feb. the nursrey has had many many months to set the plants dormant. this is ridiculous in my opinion. to each their own and that's what will be said about me.

DAx

I receieved my plants today. They have been in dormancy since November according to the nursery. They are still in dormancy as far as I can tell. Most of the plants are really nice - around 2ft tall average. I will put them in my basement next to the crepe myrtle and once they begin to leaf out I will bring them upstairs to see light next to a south facing window.

I got the shovel out and checked my soil near my barn in a protected spot and found it was not frozen. Should I abandon my basement plan and sink the pot and all in the ground?

I wasn't gonna post to this thread again but will .... READ THE POSTS!!!!! No one here has suggested either your basement or buying your pots ( at this late point) to my knowledge...In fact there has been rare aggreement among most here ( even those that constantly argue) to insulate well and put in shed /barn !!!!! David

I'm a little late to the party, but I thought I'd chime in. I actually agree with keeping them in the barn and keeping them dormant as long as possible. I have a little experience trying to cheat nature. I order in maples early every year and keep them in the garage until Spring. The reason I order early is just because I find that they ship better dormant and have had better success this way and because I really enjoy seeing them leaf out. The temp. in the garage is higher than outside and many of the maples from the PNW are further along as far as breaking dormancy and inevitably they leaf out earlier than I would like. Some years temps are warm enough where I can move them out during the day and back in the garage at night and on cold days use metal halide lighting ( left over from my reef tank hobby). The inside and outside humidity are virtually the same so that's not a factor. This past year we had an unusually cold Spring and I had to use a heater and the maples were under metal halide light exclusively for several weeks which made me nervous, but everything turned out fine. I'm only talking about jumping the gun on Spring by about a month, maybe six weeks tops. I don't have any experience trying to grow maples inside and doing so, especially this early, would REALLY make me nervous. Dave if you do decide do the inside thing, please share your experiences, I'd be courious to see how it goes. Thanks, Dan

David,

I have read the posts and thought my soil would be frozen and after finding out it was not I thought I would ask. Sorry to get on your nerves.

Dave

Sorry dave I didn't mean to go off on you ...But this is a really common problem ...in your case it is a bit understandable since you had a "valid" reason although I still feel not the correct one .

..What happens is a person askes a question ...12 or more folks hash it over and give opinios or tell the person they are likely wrong in their first opinion...remember THEY (YOU) are asking us ...then after all this imput and some sort of general concensus they do the opposite or what they first were gonna do but were advised against having waisted all of our time energy and good will...It is infuriating to me and makes me want to scream!!... Sometimes it is even more infuriating cause it is obvious at the end they are just "showing off" "bragging about" their new babies and have no real need for help ( NOT your case)... So I hope this puts my hot headedness in some perspective ... Folks should do what they want ...take others opinions or not but it not like we all are getting paid for this or are sitting around eating bon bons or drunk all day... we all have lives too...As I said sorry and hope this explains at least MY frustration...David

"All plants originating from temperate climates require a period of dormancy or rest"

not really. tree ring studies of some species indicate that many trees that can go through a dormancy period like taxodium dont always enter a real dormancy period and those can live for, I dunno, a thousand years or so.... also calling it a rest period is a misnomer. The plant isnt tired. It evolved that cycle so it doesnt waste energy when it wouldnt be profitable.

Ive seen other conifers in their native ranges in winter that are hardly hardened off or resting. Arizona cypress comes to mind. I doubt it requires much in the way of dormant period and it is a temperate climate plant. Certainly not tropical. Numerous other temperate species can behave deciduous in cool zones and evergreen in some other. Some elms come to mind. maybe some oaks. Those arent tropical plants. So there goes your statement about temperate plants.

most maples but not all are cool temperate plants so they have probably evolved more of a chill requirement than the ones I mentioned but OP is in zone 5 michigan. They wont die for want of a 'rest' there.

This: Generally this is a period of no less than 1000 hours at temperatures of 40F or less or about 6-8 weeks but it varies with species. Seems like a huge overstatement. The 70 foot red oak next door certainly doesnt need it.......Where I live I think winters of 6-8 weeks consistently in the 40's are rare. And this is a warm temperate climate.

Dont get all authoritarian if you're wrong.

Perhaps we define dormancy differently. And apparently you are mistaking lack of dormancy or a dormant period with the ability of a plant to hold its foliage throughout the winter - one has nothing to do with the other. And I am not the authority here, only restating what years of horticultural study has already observed and established. If you disagree with me - which you are entirely entitled to do - you are also disagreeing with them

Here is a link that might be useful: dormancy of temperate woody plants

After reading everyones advice my recommendation would also be putting them in the barn and covering them. I think the maples you got are fairly hardy and the barn will keep them protected and dormant which is the key this time of year. I often get plants this time of year and that is my main objective.

I have found that I have better success getting plants that are dormant from the west coast this time of year than in the spring time because of the different times the plants push. Dormant plants are much more tolerant of temp fluctuation and extended shipping times also.

David

i'm not going to disagree with the idea of keeping them in the barn, just what would happen with each option? Opinions?

#1. Unheated dark barn... temps below freezing maybe but hopefully not too much. Not much light. How does mostly darkness effect the tree, and how does the tree cycle adjust when it is pulled out into the normal daylight?

#2. Planting the tree in the ground and mulch well... how does this hurt the tree? If it gets too cold could it shock the tree, too harsh too soon? The hole may have poor drainage and freeze in a bad way?

#3. Let the tree leaf out inside basement... unnatural but when does the tree actual adjust to the new climate cycle? How does the extra two months of leaves effect the tree? Would not setting the tree outside in Spring, even just part sun, risk causing the leaves to scald/burn some and setting the plant really back that year?

#4. Put in unheated garage that is above freezing ... Would leaf out too soon anyway? Would leaves be tender when planting outside? What are the negatives?

It might be an interesting question but #4 is not an option here as pr this thread...also even if it was an option there can be no guarentees that it could be kept above freezing any differntly than the barn...but All good questions...Btw in researching the subject of darkness thoroughly there is very little about it anywhere in reguards to overwintering W/O it for Palnatums other than some Bonzai info I dug up that suggests it makes little or no differnce when dormant ...although since most if not all growers overwinter with some light they are a bit shy about agreeing with this... But since there is so much "definitive" scientific info on Palmatums out there I am sure I just am too dumb to find it ;>) David

Let's approach it this way and see what you think....:-))

Ideally, conditions that most closely match the natural growing conditions of the plant in question is the optimum situation. Obviously, with young containerized plants being shipped across country at a less than ideal planting time, this complicates things. But you are still ahead if you can most closely replicate a "normal" growing environment. Keeping the plants dormant but necessarily protected from extreme cold (because of their vulnerability) until similar plants established in the landscape begin to break dormancy is the target. So maintaining them in an environment that remains around 30-40F until a suitable planting time is what you're shooting for. Which of the possible scenarios best fit those conditions? The greater the divergence from these conditions the more vulnerable the plants will be, both from the possible exposure to excessive cold and therefore cold damage or to too early breaking of dormancy and also the potential for cold damage or the need for extended acclimation to current conditions (hardening off). I agree with David that light or lack of it tends not be a huge factor. Bare root stock is often harvested as soon as the plants enter full dormancy but before soils freeze in early winter and then held in cold storage until shipping time in late winter or very early spring. No light is provided these plants. And as evidenced by various field/scientific trials, given the same temperatures, increasing light sources (or extended daylength) does not play a significant role in breaking dormancy, only warmer temperatures.

If the conditions are similar - low temps (but sufficiently above killing temps) to maintain dormancy until a time that is appropriate for your area and light not a factor - then either the barn or garage would seem the most favorable. Inground planting now - even with heavy mulching - runs a high risk of cold damage to unestablished plantings and maintaining at a temperature high enough to encourage the plant to break dormancy and start leafing (as indoors or in the basement) will only require greater care and increased acclimation once outdoor planting is safely considered/possible.

Update - I kept them in my basement and 4 out of the 6 Jm's have broke bud recently and are doing well next to several large south facing windows. When temps warm up I will put them outside for the day and bring them in at night.

Update - 5 out of the 6 I kept indoors are doing very well. One died and I don't think it was because of being indoors. I am taking them outside now and watching the night time temps. Dax was right!

Dave, I'm glad to hear that your maples are doing well. Thanks for the update. After your post, I decided to try an experiment and took a cheap ebay maple and let it leaf out in late February inside. It too is doing well. Any chance we can see pics of your new Maples? This Spring has been weird. A little late, but fortunately it allowed me to move my new Maples directly from the garage, to outside under a pergola without any interim lighting and just two trips back into the garage for low temps. I stand corrected that the "inside thing" can be done, though I have to admit that my Maples that are currently leafing out outside look considerably better than the one I let leaf out inside. I appreciate you following up with your experiences. I always like people that push the envelope and then share their experiences. Thanks, Dan

Dan,

I have to admit I was concerned in the beginning but they are doing just fine which proves it can be done. They are getting a good dose of sun with some afternoon shade.

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I am curious why you kept your maples indoors when virtually everyone recommended putting them in your barn or garage?

My mother kept 2 Acer palmatums indoors in her basement under one weak fluorescent light for nearly five years. Sure they declined but, never once did they even meet any sort of cold-dormancy. This year she gave them to me and I overwintered them in a garage. One made it, the other died!

It's the same as receiving woody plants in Feb, Mar, etc - around here and then wondering 'what would be best'?? To me a greenhouse of course is best. If you guys were to be into bonsai you may know that one month is all it takes to meet chilling requirements, then into the greenhouse the bonsai's can go. Doesn't matter if they are coniferous or deciduous. That's irrelevant..

Good deal man. Nice job. They look great. So about # 6, why didn't it push or what happened?

Anyways, that's ........ it, for me.

Dax

Dax- The plant that died was beginning to leaf out then died. It was the smallest of them all and just did not look all that great from the beginning. Pretty cool this experiment worked!