I am new to the forum and new to Maple trees. I purchased 2-Big Tooth Maple trees today from Love Creek Nursery in Medina, TX.

The trees are small 3ft - 3.5ft tall but they are the only Big Tooth Maples I have been able to find in over 3 months of searching.

I am looking for some planting advice as the folks at the nursery basically said dig hole and plant it.

My questions:

1.) Are the trees too small to plant right now ?
2.) Should I wait until they start to bud/come to life before planting ?
3.) I put down a pre-emergent weed killer on my lawn about 2-weeks ago will that affect the trees negatively ? Shuold I post pone planting until the pre-emergent wears off ?
4.) Can I fertilize my lawn in April/May if I plant the trees now or will that harm them ?
5.) Just looking for help so I don't kill these beautiful little trees

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

All the best !

Tim

To answer your questions yes you can plant now, only thing Im not sure about is the preemergent herbicide. Look carefully at the label. They will generally transplant better as smaller plants.

They like a little bit of shade. If your lawn fertilizer is the typical amonium sulfate high nitrogen fert keep it away from the trees. Use something organic or slow release on them if anything at all. Best advice w/respect to fertilizer is get a soil test before you do anything. most often little or none will be needed. Next best is to use something low analysis and organic.

here are some pics of big tooth maples in west texas took them hiking in the guadalupes.

The trees are in great condition even though they are small their shape/form is very nice.

The nursery where I bought the trees from called me back and gave me a ton of great info on planting fertilizing etc... The folks at Love Creek Nursery are really nice people.

They recommend fertilizing with Osmocote and basically digging a shallow whole and back filling with "field dirt" if there is not enough soil to backfill the hole that has been dug. That is actually a problem in Central Texas as when you start to dig a hole you hit a large rock about every shovel full of dirt.

basic tree planting you dont dig a hole deeper than the root ball but much wider. if you replace rocks with topsoil use something close in texture to your native soil if possible (not a peat based potting soil) cheap topsoil is fine.

I have almost 100 seedlings of big tooth maple growing now. Great trees. I live in San antonio by the way....Does love creek collect seed in texas I wonder?

The ones I found up here were terrible looking and they wanted 50 dollars for 2 feet or smaller size! Needless to say, I went with Love Creek nursery because it had nice form and the owner was very nice person to talk to.

Newguy-

Plant it right into native soil. No amendment directly to the hole please.

1) loosen dirt within 5 feet diameter. I used the Claw Garden tool for it. it seemed to work better in caliche soil than shovel. Roots spread out fast when the soil is loosened up. I probably did it around 8-12 inches depth. I planted slightly above ground level. I've used topsoil to build up a couple inches over the hole. You can do the same thing if you want to. Eventually, the soil will settle and sink to slightly higher than what it was before.

2) provide 1-2 inches of compost over the entire 5 feet diameter hole followed by 3-4 inches of aged mulch that will break down before year is over. Mothing should touch the trunk.

OPTIONAL - You can provide organic fertilizer directly on the compost if you want to. That's what I did. I think it goes a long way to helping improve the soil biologically. I used soybean meal, alfalfa pellet, and corn meal to lightly dust the compost then cover the mulch. I gave it a soil drench of fish hydrolysate and seaweed liquid to provide immediate food for microbes in the soil. I've also sprinkled some greensand on the compost for extra iron and others to help deal with alkalinity just in case. No harm in that.

I already had all these stuff in the garage so it's not like I went out of the trouble to get them just for the trees. I think the best alternative is to just buy a small bag of Organic Alaska® Dry Pure Fish Fertilizer 8-5-1 that I saw at Wal-Mart (or is it the 7-2-2? I dont remember, either one will do fine) and apply on the compost before mulching. It should be enough to feed microbes in the soil.

I put the trees in the ground last weekend and mixed in some Osmocote per instructions from Love Creek Nursery.

The owner instructed me to dig a small hole but what you say about loosenin the dirt surounding the hole makes sense. I will do that this weekend as my tree is still dormant so I doubt the roots have started to spread yet. I will also apply compost but might wait a bit before applying mulch.

Thanks again !

Compost and mulch are very important to improving the soil specifically for trees. If you let grass grow up to the trunk, the tree/root growth is significantly reduced. The growth is accumulated year after year. you can see as much as 10-20 ft growth difference after 10 years between mulched and non mulched. Young trees just hate grass growing around them... The wider the mulch over long period of time the better...

Since some folks took the time to help me out with how to plant my Big Tooth maple's I thought I would update you on their progress.

Both trees I planted are doing awesome ! They leafed out about 1-month ago (I live in Round Rock, TX). One leafed out a bit stronger then the other one, by that I mean one tree's leaves developed more quickly then the other tree's leaves. The 2nd trees leaves looked more droopy for a couple of weeks but are now a deep green with dark red branches. When I say branches keep in mind the trees are only 3.5 to 4 feet tall.

The arborist from Love Creek Nursery might be right when he says these trees will grow 3-4 feet a year with proper fertilization. My little trees both have 6-9 inches of new growth on them since leafing out. I am amazed and realize that type of growth can't sustain itself for the whole growing season but WOW that is pretty impressive you have to admit.

Anyways, thanks to everyone who gave me advice I did everything you said with the exception of adding mulch as the arborist said compost is much better then mulch at this point considering the age of the trees. I will add mulch down the line when the trees get a bit older.

Thanks again !

Also bigtooth maple will look slightly different from seedling to seedling. Purely genetics... so it's probably wise not to expect both trees to look exactly the same and exactly have same growth rate too.

I would be surprised if yours grew 3-4 feet this year esp when you just planted it. Usually, you don't see that kind of growth till 2nd year at the earliest.

I planted one that I ordered from Love Creek, only 3 feet... and it leafed out in late march, I think. The new leaves are tinted red. I wonder if I will get red fall color as I asked the owner to keep an eye for before shipping one to me.

I personally think synthetic fertilizer is not a good idea for trees or for anything anyway. I use organic fertilizer and it has always worked very well for me. There are a lot of things that it can do for the soil while synthetic fertilizer can't.

I don't think Love Creek nursery owner understands soil biology very well... It's like eating synthetic food vs real food loaded with nutrients that are missing in synthetic food and people tend to be more healthy and robust when eating real food.... Know what I mean???

Thanks for the advice I really did appreciate it. But you are coming off a bit like a know it all. The arborist at Love Creek Nursery has been growing these trees for 30 years and has 5,000 growing right now I think I will follow his advice.

I live in Round Rock, TX about an hour from Medina and the climate and soil conditions are almost identical to Medina's. So I think I will listen to the guy that has been raising these trees for 30-years.

I have read as much bad stuff about mulch as I have good stuff. I understand the concept of mulching but there is more to it then buying a bag at Home Depot and laying it down. The type of mulch these trees would get in their natural habitat is far different then buying a bag that you don't know what's in it like fungus which could kill a tree etc...

In their natural settings these trees grow out of rocks without any mulch and through very tough, drought conditions. I seriously doubt that if I don't apply mulch the trees are not going to grow well they are doing great right now.

As far as I am concerned these trees are living a country club life style as they have a sprinkler system which they don't have in nature.

Thanks again for the advice I did appreciate it.

All the best !

It's been a little over a year since I planted my Big Tooth Maple trees so I thought I would give you all an update.

The trees have established very quickly. 1-tree grew from 3 feet tall to right a 6 foot tall last year during the growing season and the caliper increased in diameter by close to 1/2 inch. This tree gets sun from sun-up to right around 5pm all year long.

The 2nd tree I planted grew from 3 feet tall to about 5 feet tall. This tree gets sun from sun up to sun down but the caliper did not increase in diameter much if at all.

This fall one tree had salmon colored leaves and the other tree had deep orange leaves with yellow specks. Very pretty trees.

This year (2009) the trees leafed out in early April and have already grown 4-6 inches each. The crown of both trees are much fuller this year already. I am very impressed with these trees as last summer we were under draught conditions in Central Texas and these trees got beat down with sun all day long and they looked healthy and perky all summer long.

I did use Osmocote last year per instruction from Love Creek Nursery. But I did not do that this year. I ended up using Lady Bug Brand Sylvan tree formula for my mulch and I fertilize the trees with Texas Tee Lawn Fertilizer and Lady Bug Brand 8-2-4 fertilizer along with Medina Soil Activator.

I have the trees planted in the corners of my back yard about 7 feet from the privacy fence and in the middle of the yard I have a Lacey Oak tree which is about 12 feet tall. I've got a damn nice looking back yard with some pretty kick ass trees in my opinion.

Thanks for everyone's planting advice last year and if I could figure out how to post pictures of the trees I would.

So far my BTM has grown almost 19 inches. Last year it was 24 inches or so. This is 2nd year so hopefully it will have better fall color. Performance wise, I give shantung maple a huge advantage over big tooth maple so far. Maybe it may change later on but BTM has a lot to catch up.

Everything is done organically. I think fish hydrolyzed fertilizer was very good for soil drench into the rootball during the first year. After that, they pretty much get whatever they can get from dry organic fertilizer when I spread them all over the yard mainly because the root system have spread out. The idea behind fish fertilizer is to improve soil biology activity unlike osmocote. Whatever Love Creek Nursery told you, it sure isn't about improving soil at all. You have to understand that the Lost Maple Forest has been there for a long time and the mulch they get is from leaves and dead trees that fall down enriching the soil over many years. That's vastly different than your "artificial" environment. What I'm doing is to improve the soil biological wise as much as I can to mimic natural ways. That is for in ground only. For container growing, that is entirely different. I'd use osmocote to promote maximum growth. Organic fertilizer won't work too well for above ground containers as I am growing probably 100 seedlings of different trees in the containers. Too harsh because it gets very hot compared to the ones in the ground. I think liquid fish fertilizer works better during first year because it takes a while for dry organic fertilizer to improve the soil enough to make a difference, probably 2 years at least.

Anyway here is the photo album of BTM - Click on it to see the progress of BTM since Jan 2008.

Big Tooth Maple

As a comparision - Shantung Maple 'Fire Dragon'

Fire Dragon

I planted BTM only because I was told that they would do better than Shantung maple in rocky limestone soil...

I guess I'll find out by end of Fall...

You are a broken record. I used 1/4 cup of Osmocote when I planted the trees in the fall of 2008 per direction from Love Creek Nursery. I am sure that just ruined everything to do with my soil right ???

Apparently you don't read too closely and are the troll of this forum. I used Lady Bug Brand Sylvan Tree formula this year for mulch (organic), I use Texas Tee fertilizer (organic), I use Medina organic products on my lawn. A little Osmocote did not hurt anything and in all honesty your trees look sickly compared to the 2-big tooth Maples in my back yard.

You seem to pride yourself on being the tree expert - GET A LIFE !

You asked for advice and you got some. Lou wasn't attacking you as much as the advice you got in planting your trees. As you stated "I am looking for some planting advice as the folks at the nursery basically said dig hole and plant it." Adding a little Osmocote to the ground isn't going to hurt anything and would probably helped give the tree some nutrients at first but long term isn't the best solution.
Just because because someone has been doing something for 30 years, doesn't mean they couldn't do it better. What you are doing now with the organic fertilizer is basically what he and others on this forum said to do.

On a side note, I would like to see your trees. Anyway to take some pics and post them?

I honestly don't care if I am coming across like an ass to someone like Lou. He really needs to get a life and not be so concerned about 1/4 cup of Osmocote. I asked for advice over 1-year ago. Read the posts, even last year Lou decided to become the God of all things tree related, pretty sad in my opinion.

In my most recent post I explained that everything I do is organic, Texas Tee fertilizer, Lady Bug Sylan Tree formula, Lady Bug 8-2-4 fertilizer, Medina products etc...

Re-read Lou's posts it's like he wants to get into some online tree competition with me. Fire Dragon vs. Big Tooth maple. Great you win Lou with Fire Dragon is better suited for North Texas.

Last year I thanked Lou for his advice but it's obvious he's just one of those guys that always has to be right otherwise why bring up the past like he did in his most recent post. Lou knows nothing of the Central Texas as Shantung maples would not survive where I live. I had to get my local county ag agent out here to help me figure out what would grow in 4-6 inches of top soil and the rest is pretty much solid limestone. This type of environment limits the type of trees that can be planted and a Shantung maple is not one of them. I even called the owner of Metro maples and he said "no way would a Shantung thrive".

To give you some perspective when I bought my Lacey Oak I had the tree company I bought it from come plant it. The Lacey Oak I bought is about 14 feet tall when I bought it and the tree company brought out a jack hammer to dinner the hole. It took 2 guys right at 3-hours to dig the hole for the tree with a jack hammer because of all the limestone.

I have pics of all the trees but I don't know how to post them on this site and I don't spend much of my free time posting stuff online forums. I only reposted because I wanted to give a few nice folks an update since they were interested when I initially posted and bought the Big Tooth Maples. Plus I wanted to give the nice guy at Love Creek Nursery a little plug because he is a very nice guy and would take a call or help anyone based on my experience with him,.

Status on the trees to date:

Tree # 1: Pretty much gets sun all day long, is 7.5 feet tall (started out last year at 2.5(ish) feet tall). Extremely dense and dark green folliage and very uniform crown. New growth (leaves) grow in at a blood red color.

Tree # 2: Right at 9 feet tall. Dense folliage but not as dense as tree # 1. Slightly irregular crown and the leaves are not as dark green and the new growth comes in salmon colored which is very unusual. This tree gets sun from sun up to around 5-6pm(ish).

If you post your e-mail address I can send pics that way but I don't know how to post on this forum and don't plan to post again.

By the way, these trees were little 3 footers when I bought them. I fertilize them with tree spikes each autumn and spring. They are now tall and full. I pruned off the lower branches two years ago so they now can focus their growth on the upper branches.

I'll take some seed if you still have some. I have heard they were fairly hard to germinate so I thought I would try and see if I could get any to grow.

ltruett@yahoo.com

Thanks

By the way, my wife is from central Texas and I know one or two things about planting trees. After all, I planted some trees at her parents' house in Marble Falls. Granite rocks... I sit on top of solid limestone bedrock and thankfully, I have 2 feet deep of crushed limestone on top of bedrock so roots can grow between them.

Not really my problem if you refused to understand the biology in soil where forests have been thriving for many years.

Good luck with your trees.