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mattnova

Grafting supplies- where to find them?

mattnova
16 years ago

Can anyone tell me where to find grafting supplies such as the rubber bands? Also, where is a good place to get understock? I am looking for quantities of 10-25 understock trees if possible. I did a search on here and found 1 company but it was a $350 minimum.

I just want to do this for fun, not so much for selling trees. I am a complete novice but am starting my research now and would like to try a few this year, even if they aren't perfect. I am sure it will be a learning experience and good practice.

Comments (17)

  • myersphcf
    16 years ago

    You are a bit late to get started.for spring grafting..since it has been cold "here" in central IL. my stuff is still dormant and you can probably graft for a couple more weeks at most...if you can get dormant RS...but generally this is way to late and by the time you do get your RS and supplies it will be too late ...you can try summwer budding...(google it) but for now you're timing is IMHO not good . Email me personally and I can give you a list of suppliers.Grafting for "fun" is a crap shoot BTW without the proper enviorment along with years of practice your success rate will be very low no matter what some savant here may tell you. The idea may "sound" to many "easy" but in practice there are so many variables involved with RS, scion, enviorment, tedhnique, as well as after care, soil, and nutricional requirements etc...that it becomes far from an easy "fun" project it is both for most of us an evocation and a profession...David

  • kbguess
    16 years ago

    mattnova

    sounds like I am just a year or so ahead of you with 'hobby grafting'

    I grow my own understock from seed. I summer grafted a few plants last year and had my first 'push' recently.

    I use parafilm. You can get parafilm and grafting rubber bands from http://www.midwestvineyardsupply.com/

    Parafilm seems easier for me and my relative clumsiness.

    David is right about being late for this year, but it is the time to plan for next winter or next summer grafting.

    I'd be happy to send you some good seed or a few seedlings if you'd like. email at kb_guess at yahoo dot com

  • mattnova
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thank guys. I will probably just germinate some seed this year to grow understock and use the time the understock is maturing to learn as much as I can before jumping into grafting this year.

    Although I said I would like to do it for fun, it very well could become a occupation eventually or even in retirement. I just don't know yet. I like a good challenge and am quite prepared for the failures along the way. It will be worth the disappointments in the end I think.

    I am the kind of person who sets up a micro saltwater reef tank just because people said "its not for the novice". I am a research-aholic which usually helps a bit. Who knows, maybe I will even be good at it one day. There is only one way to find out...

  • myersphcf
    16 years ago

    Growing root stock from seed is a long term venture as well ...it is both time consuming and IMHO not worth the trouble unless you enjoy waiting at least two years ( anyone grafting rs less than 2 full years old ...thats grafting in the spring third growing season.... is working with a microscope on a wing and a prayer... for RS that is usually not as good as you can buy commercially for 1-2$$ or less. The rate of loss is great even if they sprout when grown in less than professional conditions. ( THATS the third spring after the fall you pick seed and put in the fridge for 60 days.) You also must do this each and every year FOREVER if you want continuous RS and you have to have room to store your plants that do suvive, water them fertilize them keep them from hard winters and too much sun in summer...if thats your "fun" thing go for it...I have found it is not worth it as a "fun" thing...Like anything else there is a right and professional way to do it and a purely "fun" way of doing it if that is your idea of fun with a 3-5 year plan then by all means go for it..David

  • mattnova
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks for all the insight David. It is definitely something to consider. If I ever did it at a serious level, I would definitely order the root stock. I will germinate some seeds my first year so I can compare the differences. I may go ahead and get some root stock next year and try a few grafts. In the meantime, I will try to find a class or a mentor.

  • averbisadverbera
    16 years ago

    RE: anyone grafting rs less than 2 full years old ...thats grafting in the spring third growing season.... is working with a microscope on a wing and a prayer

    I've grown hundreds of acer seedlings and have had some JM seedlings grow over 3 feet tall and have 1/4 to 3/8 inch trunk caliper, completely filling up trade gallon cans with roots in one growing season. Most are much smaller obviously, but many are very vigorous.

    Mail ordering seedlings is expensive because of shipping (can easlily cost more than the plants themselves) and can only be done at certain times of year, and if you're buying wholesale you generally need to buy a large quantity and retail seedlings are a rip off.

  • averbisadverbera
    16 years ago

    Also, "fun" way of grafting can produce much higher quality plants IMHO. Professionals do as many as they can as fast as they can and use underpotted rootstocks, sitting neglected in band pots for two or three years, not being grown under optimal conditions.

    No one pots up rootstocks because it makes the process more expensive. Nursery business is a race to the bottom in terms of quality. Low cost is paramount concern. Certainly not survivability.

    I cant tell you how many grafted maples and conifers Ive barerooted to find the classic 5 inch, woody, tangled, rectangular root system charateristic of the ubiquitous anderson tree band.

    retailers of end product typically had nothing to do with propagation. They are just plant stores.

  • spg_ny
    16 years ago

    In case you are interested, Treekote sells a beginner's grafting kit for $21.95.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Grafting kit

  • myersphcf
    16 years ago

    I never advocated for large nursery operations although it is not correct to put them all in that unfavorable light ...of course there is a bottom line but like any other industry there are good and bad operations . My point was to put a little reality into this la de da conversation that started out with a simple question of supplies. Folks should know what they are getting into and make their own decisions about what they want to do ...but having someone who has been there done that and has come to certain conclusions about it is not such a bad thing ...

    For someone to say they have seeded plants grow to three feet tall in one year is not realistic . Yes it could happen ...under perfect conditions in a good growing area oftem with alot of fertilizer ( pushed) ...but it is unlikely.It is also best not to graft onto anything that is that young ...cause you don't have absolute assurance it will make it.One of the sadest experiences is to get a sciopn to take and look great and then the RS dies . Yes anyone can blunder through the growing RS learn grafting and get Jm cultivars but I can assure you it is not something most should take lightly...it becomes all consuming if you really want "to do it"

    There is nothing wrong with having a cottage industry biz ...in fact it is perferable... but having a bunch of yahoos ( I am not implying anyone in this thread is cut from this cloth) grafting selling on ebay with amature grafting and growing techniques is no better than some big slocky nursery operations with their bottom line techniques.

    But the real conversation of this original thread , as i understand it, involved those that wanted to graft just a few cultivars for their own use and the best way to do that ...I stand by my statement that growing your own RS is not usually the best way to accomplish this and that the whole process is not something to lightly "get into" To state it simply.... grafting doesn't easily lend itself to being a hobby. David
    David

  • averbisadverbera
    16 years ago

    "For someone to say they have seeded plants grow to three feet tall in one year is not realistic"

    Really? I guess JD vertrees wasnt being realistic when he wrote "Japanese Maples". See page 85 of third edition. Plants at maple nursery grew one meter in first year. It happens all the time.

    grafting is easy once you have a little practice.

  • myersphcf
    16 years ago

    Where did Vertrees live??? read my post I never stated it wasn't possible depending on proper conditions and stop taking things out of context READ!!!

    And grafting as I said is just one small portion of the process.

    Saying anything in life is easy for everyone is absurd...anything done well and properly is never "easy" for most folks. If it were you would have JM's on every corner being sold by bozos everywhere... most places that is not the case!!!

    Leading folks on making unrealistic statements that are not relevent or specific to most folks living in most areas of the USA is both not proper or helpful.This is all I am gonna say on this absurd subject.you may have the last word. David

  • averbisadverbera
    16 years ago

    i read your posts and quoted you verbatim. twice. both times what you said was completely wrong. You don't not need a microscope to graft onto one year old root stocks people do it all the time with good results. And green seedlings grow very vigorously.

    You are not an expert. You do not know what you're talking about. These plants aren't any harder to propagate than many other woody perennials. You need to relax amd stop pretending you're an authority. You are a doofus of the first magnitude. doofy doofus.

  • jmwclemson
    15 years ago

    averbisadverbera,
    I have over 1000 seedlings growing and 3 ft growth is not the norm, far from it. Again as David said, it depends on location, genetics, etc. The nurseries growing rootstock are usually using a stock seed with better genetics for growing quickly and have enviroments set up to push growth like that.
    Seeds from local sources do not perform quite like that in most cases.
    David is just being realistic. the percentages of seedlings growing 3ftt in one season from germination is less than 1% in my experience and area (Atlanta, Ga).

    We are not trying to discourage mattnova, but give him realistic advice. In your own comment you mention most will not grow that quick. So if we are to use them for grafting, and to have more than 2, you would need to start with large number of seeds/seedlings.
    Yes it is method to obtain stock, but generally longer than one season is needed. Completely wrong is not how i would describe David's advice, just truthful.

    mattnova,
    another idea might be to find someone in your area and combine an order. Heritage seedlings lets me place an order of 200. You could also just order that amount and try 20-40 each grafting season. You can try twice a year with both winter and summer grafting.

    Mike

  • mattnova
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks, I am not in a rush. I will probably look into it within a year. I want to learn a bit more before I get into grafting. I actually found a couple people that may split a order with me.

  • dawgie
    15 years ago

    OP: "I just want to do this for fun, not so much for selling trees. I am a complete novice but am starting my research now and would like to try a few this year, even if they aren't perfect. I am sure it will be a learning experience and good practice."

    I do not understand the negativity in response the original poster's questions. Instead of just answering his questions, various posters pile on with criticisms and warnings.

    He's not asking how to build a moon rocket. Grafting is a skill that's been around for many, many years. Sure, JMs might be harder to graft than some trees, but so what? Why not just answer his questions and let him give it a go? Obviously plenty of growers graft JMs, so it is doable. Instead of trying to shoot him down, why not offer some constructive suggestions on how to do it. If I had the time and the space, I might try it myself ... just for fun.

  • dawgie
    15 years ago

    Mattnova -- By the way, I found a source for relatively inexpensive seedling Japanese maples. Herter's maples sells JM seedlings for 5 for $25. Perhaps they would lower that price even more for larger orders. Here's a link to their site (scroll to the bottom for seedlings):

    http://japanesemaple.net/japanesemaple.htm

  • mattnova
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks dawgie, that is nice. That might be a good option for me.

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