Where are you located? In areas with mild summer heat, green laceleafs can tolerate full sun easily. In hot summer climates, some afternoon shade is best.

The twisted, gnarled trunk character is something that develops with age but it has to have something to start with. IMO, a razor straight trunk is not going to achieve that end. You need to look for something with a little character NOW and then continue to develop that sculptural look with training and pruning as the tree matures. Look for a low graft, a trunk that has a bit of a bend, some sort of directional or angled growth (rather than a precisely even crown) or an interesting branching habit to get you started. IME as a longtime grower and seller of JM's, the red laceleafs offer a much greater chance at a very sculptural growth habit than do the greens.

Typically plants that offer these sorts of characteristics are not going to be very visible at box stores. You will increase your choices dramatically by visiting an independent garden center that offers a big selection of JM's.

Box stores offer a very tiny portion of what is on the market in any given area.

Thanks for sharing your experience w me! I am in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore and it does get pretty hot here in summer. I have a store in mind for my Ryusen when it's time; they have a good variety of more unique Japanese Maples. Of course they tend to cost more there, even for the more common varieties like the Viridis. I'm sure you're correct in that they probably have more interesting shapes to begin with but I have to wonder if it's worth at least a few good looks around the big box stores first. Surely SOMETIMES they have interesting ones right? I'd like to try and save some money where I can since I have quite a few things to buy already this year.
Oh and we already have a huge red maple in the front yard, closer to the road. So I definite want a green laceleaf for garden. Maybe I'll post a picture of my front yard now, as is, and see if I get any good ideas from you all on the forum. I think the forum is the coolest thing ever! I'm hoping to be a good gardener in 10 years by learning from everyone.

Or maybe 15...
: )
Nicole

you will love this forum there very helpful. anything you want to know they will have an answer haha. Looking at the photo there is still a way to achieve a sculpture look for your viridis. I try to buy them a bit younger so there more flexible and can shape them as they grow. Its very time consuming but you get an amazing sense of achievement in the end. You can try using weights or cans of sand, Guy wire or Bonsai wire to shape the viridus trunk and limbs. I do this just so come winter i have a wonderful sculpture/natural looking jm to look at. Then come summer back to seeing the gorgeous canopy's again.

The trouble with a standard that tall is that it is susceptible to sunburn.
It looks a bit contrived and unnatural to me.
Mike

You could plant the tree at an angle, wait for a new branch to emerge in an appropriate place from above the graft union, then bend that branch into whatever form you'd like it to take, and behead the tree just above the new branch/leader.

This young maple is being treated as I described:
{{gwi:2225}}

You can see an almost healed wound just below the small branch/new leader. The main stem will be truncated on this plant just above the small branch. You can see the 'movement' I've created in the trunk to add interest. It takes time, but the end result is a unique tree with character to spare. You can 'operate' on trees in the ground with less risk than those in containers. It just takes the ability to overcome the feeling the tree won't tolerate the temporary indignity. Young trees are, or are nearly 100% dynamic mass; and as such have a strong ability to overcome even serious adversities.

Even very large wounds like this on a trident maple will heal in a few years time.
{{gwi:49581}}

Here's an amur maple from a cutting I dug last spring from a raised bed I use for growing on bonsai material. It was cut back like the trident. It's just getting started on it's way to being a bonsai.

Trees are really resilient (when healthy), and character imparted in the formative years never goes away.

PS - do you want to do your spruce on the conifer forum or by mail? I didn't forget - just been busy.

Al

Aaargh! I've spent the last day and a half dealing with a flooded basement and unfortunately haven't had time to get on here and talk plants. Bit of a mess on my end currently, and am absolutely exhausted now so time to hit the sack. I work only 2 days a week but they are Friday and Saturday so it might be another day or two before I get back here still BUT I've seen your messages and want to respond, in detail : )

Al, your trees are out of this world amazing. Def too scary and overwhelming for me to dream of tackling something like that at this stage though. And since my front is completely bare right now, I want to put things in it that are already on their way to some size if I can. thinking I'm going to exchange this tree or return it if they don't have one I like better. But when I'm left with whatever Viridis I choose, I hope I can get maybe some pointers on that one as it grows. I don't think I mentioned yet I have a small Mikawa Yatsubusa in a container that I bought 2 years ago and have just left alone, maybe that one could take some training. I'll post a pic or two when I get back on here.

More later... the basement debacle is far from over!

Your instincts are correct. You may not have picked that one if shopping yourself.
It does have a tall central start and may not do as you wish.
I like a challenge and have a spot for it. I don't mean, "send it over!". Just having been in my home a few years, and plantings that went in a few yrs ago are filling in, i could use some height in one area over some 'smalls' i'm training.

It is good to have a few inexpensive, or free, babies to train and learn from. I inherited three 50yr old elders with the home and was a bit terrified to touch them.
I have some young ones, one a house warming gift, that i have wired and tugged and pulled down and that way, this way....they seen to like it, haha.

A pricy one, pre-trained properly, is a good investment. Yet, something small and young that you raise yourself is valuable beyond an experts hand. Very satisfying to be a part of its shape as it grows.

I'm very far from knowing what i'm doing, but my red leaf breeds a yard full of babies every year. Nothing special, but some have become my experiments. To prune, strangle, stretch, and bend.

Pics did not show up in the landscape as they are just now leafing.

I'm in Upper Marlboro/Bowie and have no shade whatsoever, thanks to several tornatoes.

I have a lovely Verdis, Ryuzu, about 100 more. What couldn't survive full sun (or our very freezing winter) are gone, so my sun collection has become pretty Impressive.

Last Friday, yesterday and today I've finished repotting now 42 of my maples, plus assorted hosta and heuchera. (Don't ever plant them in the same container no matter how pretty it looks. Separating them is a serious bite in the bummy.)

My point is that no matter how delicate JMs are, mine take a serious beating. I only learned about root pruning 2 years ago and have my successes and failures, but the successes were worth the ones I saved. I mention this because your Mikawa Yatsubusa is probably pretty root bound by now. You might consider taking care of it now.

Anyway, in my sunless, HOT yard, Verdis is very happy. If you like, I can go outside and write down the names of my trees that have been in full sun for a year to 5 years.

It sounds like you have a lovely garden planned. Did you consider a 'Fireball' nandina? Amazing winter color, and they're smaller in size. A 'Plum Passion' nandina is also a gorgeous winter purple.

Did you know about the Gardenweb Mid-Atlantic Gardening board plant swap on Saturday in Burtonsville? It's the 10th years. If you don't have plants to bring, bring chocolate a dish to pass. Very fun and very generous folks.

Ok, here I am again- sorry for my absense! I've had 4 days of wet-basement-hell from that crazy storm and each night I feel sadness that I'm dealing with that, instead of jumping on gardenweb to chat with you all!

So I am going to try and go in order.
On the point about playing around with maple seedlings-- we have a huge red maple of some kind (not laceleaf) in my front yard-- it's beautiful but as most things here on our property, seems placed oddly to me. It's literally right in front of our front door, blocking the view of the street (for us) and the view of the house (for anyone driving by). I love my neighborhood so I'm not sure why anyone would try and block it out. Who knows. I think it's a beautiful tree though so I try not to let it get to me.
Forgot where I was going with that! Yes. It gives me babies. I have lots of little red maples all over- many that I have given away and a few, each about 2' tall, that I have kept and put into containers. That job is not at the top of my list right now so maybe next year I will try and do something with them.

ANYWAY, here's my new green laceleaf. I exchanged the other one at Lowe's this morning. Along the lines of what everyone shared with me on the box stores: this one is marked "red select" when it is clearly green. It was hanging out with all the other Viridis so I assume that's what it is. Surely there are other green laceleafs out there so I don't want to assume but... anyway. I like the shape of this one better than the one I posted last week but I will post one other pic in a second to show some branches inside of this new one that seem to be trying to kill each other. I have read that one should prune branches that cross over others, but for now I will leave it alone. Will probably even leave it in the container for a while bc I am currently feeling very overwhelmed with how much work I need to do and how little knowledge I have about how best to go about it. I spent 2 hours out front today just trying to get the soil in some sort of order (weed free/flattened out some after the 40 year old yews were dug out) and I just felt very frustrated. Going to post for some help there right after this actually. This year might be just for getting the soil right, no real planting.

branches inside crossing all over each other

Hi CEFreeman! I saw your email while I was working yesterday and thought "how exciting!"- both on how many JMs you have and on the plant swap. I unfortunately work most every Saturday and probably will not get to that, unless one day it is held on a Sunday.

How do you happen to have so many JMs?? That's awesome. Bowie is not too too far from me I don't think... Have you ever been to Valley View Farms in Timonium? That's where I have seen the Ryusen, and likey where I will purchase mine when I get around to it.
My Mikawa Yatsubusa may unfortunately be dead. Two years ago I bought it from a little place called Webers, and I repotted it right away bc it already seemed tight in the little container it came in. Up until this spring, it has seemed fine. Didn't seem to grow any-- I had read that they are extremely slow-growing though so I thought nothing of it-- but it had beautiful clumps of leaves and seemed happy enough.

Last year we moved and I had to find a spot for it here at the new house. I decided to keep it by our side door so I wouldn't forget to water it (the rest of the entire yard was such a mess and I had so much to do inside that I decided to table most of what was outside for this year so I knew I'd be neglectful in most areas) and maybe that's not a good spot for it, I don't know. Gets morning sun there. There's moss in the pot that I put there on a whim so it may seem like it's too wet but I don't have the bottom tray thing on the pot so it drains very well. Reading about yours made me realize "hmmm, I haven't seen any leaves on mine yet". The branches don't seem dry or brittle, but I don't have one single leaf. If anyone can suggest anything to help me save it (if it needs saving), I'm all ears. It's about a foot tall. Here's a pic:

Al--
I'd be happy to get pointers on the spruce wherever you'd like. Whichever is easiest I guess? Regardless on how you send them, I will post follow-up pics on here : )

When I was googling the DASpruce bonsai pics, I was thinking of you! Do you have any of those? I wondered if some of the ones I was looking at might have even been yours...

Oh and also, if there's a place here (or aywhere) that you post pics of all your bonsai? The ones you posted above are so cool- I'd love to see more, and how those ones progress. The one with the huge chunk of trunk cut off and the one right after that... mind boggling. I want to see more!!!

This post was edited by nikki717 on Sun, May 4, 14 at 19:13

I like your second green maple much better!
The logical order of removing branches, at least for me, is to take the smaller, lower branches off first. If they cross, so much the better, off they go. Start at the bottom and work up with the general idea of coming up with a thin scalloped shaped umbrella rather than a Dutch cut, boring, mushroom shape. The south side of the trunk should be shaded more than the north to minimize sun scald damage from sudden exposure to the sun. Keep this in mind when siting the maple. You want to see the trunk and curvy branches supporting the umbrella. I like to give a tree a bit of a windswept look.
Mike

Here is a link that might be useful: My garden pictures

Oh, Mike, How absolutely lovely.

I am getting to the point where my little trees are growing up. As I was repotting this weekend, I kept thinking that I have no idea how to manipulate these babies' structure. Perhaps I should look into a professional. I'm not bonsai-ing, but I want the best for my beauties!

Nicole, I have so many because I have dealt with OCD all my life. As a kid, if I bought an album, I had to buy all of that artist's. When I started collecting JMs, I had to have all the beautiful red ones. I also have a huge red crape myrtle collection. Regular maples, anything with red flowers, hosta with red stems, Well, let's just say that medication has helped. Kind of a joke, but not.

I bought from some ebay vendors with whom I still have a nice purchasing relationship. Back in 2004, 2-year grafts were running $9.95. I've lost a ton and repurchased ones that really spoke to me.
One year my dogs got loose through a hole the smart one made in the chain link fence and stomped a bunch to death.
The next, rabbits bit off about 20 just above their graft. The next year a tornado took down my shade tree and a huge pine tree next to it, which fell on my raised bed, killing more.
Every year I still pick up a few, but very few. Since the tornado took out my shade, I go often with Shirasawanum, Japiconicum and Plamatum varities. IOW, no more delicate lace leafs. In retrospect, I have a Linearilobum 'Atrolineare' that's been in awful, full sun for over 7 years.

OK. Now I'm rambling.
Good luck with your newest, lovely trees!

Mike,
You gotta be kidding me. I am speechless. Like, really and truly speechless. There's too much to say and none of it would suffice, so... WOW.

Oh and thanks for the tips. I will try that with this little guy and see how it goes. Both the trimming and the siting.

CEF,
You've made me giggle. I don't know if I can go as far as to say OCD, but I can relate on some of the collecting for sure. In my dining room I have a china cabinet full of vintage Pyrex and in the bedroom I've started a wall of old crewel work. If it makes me happy, I tend to want to see more of it. Placed just so : )

I doubt I'll ever have the space to do it with plants but we shall see. Your trees sound wonderful, although I'm very sorry to hear about how many hardships you've been through with them! I can imagine that hurts pretty badly when it's happening.

What kind of dogs do you have that can make a hole in a chain link fence?? I'm trying to picture our little guy doing that, but it just ain't happenin' : )

oh, what a sweet face! I'll bet those innocent eyes get away with soooo much! :)

Saturday is the day of the week I make the most money. I'm a waitress/bartender/yoga teacher. However, I take off for the trade. It's totally worth it.

I probably misspoke about making a hole in the fence. Morgan worked herself under the chain and between the chain and pole. Kind of in a corner. But once she figured that out, all bets were off.

I could NOT figure out how the other dogs were getting out, but not her! Then one day I saw her out the window. She walked out, held the fence open on her back (she's short) and let the others out. When she was done with whatever havoc she was teaching then, she let herself back in and left them outside. They were too dumb to figure it out. But there she sat. Miss Innocent.

I still collect things and have to tell myself "ENOUGH!" When we moved out here in 2002, it was firewood. I'd go anywhere for firewood. But then, they invented the ash borer.

I'm still having an obsession with building materials. (I'm rebuilding after a fire.) I'll pick up, well, 54 6x6s (8' 10' 12' and 16') from Long fence because they're weathered and checked. Since I eventually want to build more raised beds, a deck and porch, why not at $8.00 a piece? I am very into the weathered look.

Well made kitchen cabinets. Can't resist. I just swap out the "temporary" ones, which would have been fine if I hadn't found something better. Or I give them to Freecycle, back to H4H, or my former SIL. I've kept the ones I've made, because I'm kinda proud of that, though. :)

Drawers. I like drawers and plan to build a closet.
I gotta quit picking up small tables and nice, small, always wood vs. upholstered, chairs. I never have company and live alone. I don't NEED ANY CHAIRS (Ok, I hear me!)

Anyway, returning to your topic. I like the ones you've chosen. Is your ranch brick or siding? I always take than into consideration when I finally put some into the ground. I want them to stand out in my landscape.

Welcome to an amazing obsession.

This is Morgan. Around her you can see some of my building paraphernalia. I'm building cabinets in my MBR.

CEF, Molly is adorable! I want to kiss her snout. She sounds like quite the little rascal. Love it.

You definitely are a busy one, I am so impressed with all this building of things. Are you self-taught? I wish I knew how to do some of that. Kitchen cabinets! Awesome. Our kitchen is original (not a good thing, 1973) and I'd love new cabinets. Reworked, recycled, whatever! Just different, pretty and CLEAN. I planned to paint ours when we moved in last year-- bought all the supplies, watched some videos... just never did it. I underestimated how long EVERYTHING would take. Every room had wallpaper and I figured I'd take a weekend or two before we moved our stuff in and get that out quick. HA!! It took 2 months, just to get it all down. And half the walls still have spackle. It's been 13 months and we have two rooms done. Two! Whatever. I'll get to it.

I am a hairstylist and only work Fridays and Saturdays (til the kids are both in school anyway) so it's difficult to take time off. I do it now and then though and if I'd known about this plant swap sooner, I probably would have. Is there a website I can bookmark so I will know early next year?

Our rancher is brick. I'll post a pic of it when we bought it, with the row of yews. I couldn't wait to get them out but now that they are finally, I'm a little overwhelmed at how much work it is to get that area in order, long before plants will even be concerned. Right now the dirt is all turned over and weeds are everywhere-- I pulled up all that I could see last week (almost a full day of weeding!) and then we had that crazy rain and few days later, weeds everywhere again. I posted about it on the soil forum but nobody responded so today I went out there with my pump sprayer full of vinegar and covered every square inch. I know that can kill the stuff I want as well but there's nothing out there but weeds so I figured I'd give it a go. Edge out a bigger bed tomorrow with my new edger (SO EXCITED) and then maybe mix in some topsoil and turn it over before mulching. I may not plant anything this year after all. Use containers so I can make sure the soil is good first, move things around for a bit til I get a feel. Who knows.

I want to paint the shutters too, not liking this green. Medium-darkish taupe maybe? With just a hint of green/blue? Leaning more toward the brown, less the grey.

I'm off to research fertilizers for my new maple, and perhaps my Mikawa Yatsubusa, if it's not dead yet. I know Al has some good stuff on here about it, found another member recommending him when I was google searching a few minutes ago ; )

oh and p.s.- you mentioned liking the weathered look, have you considered making raised beds out of pallets? Saw something on pinterest about that and it looked great, plus they are usually free somewhere.

OOooh.
That darned vinegar thing.
Dearie, you just majorly changed the pH in the soil in front of your house. I wouldn't put anything into that soil for a while. It would depend upon the drainage, how long it takes the vinegar to wash out.

I would suggest you start saving newspapers. Take an entire section and lay it down, open. Weigh it down with a shovelful of soil. What's happened, is all the seeds that were in your soil have no germinated. Or at least many. If you kill them now, the seeds won't be there next time because these haven't had a chance to go to seed. I could be overreacting about the vinegar, but why take chances with valuable investment plants.

If you're so concerned about not using chemicals (I swear by Round-up) choke your weeds out with something biodegradable. After the soil rinses, you can put the paper down and just cut holes where you want to put plants or trees. Cover that with about 3" of mulch and you're good for a couple of years. I get my mulch (wood chips) from the guys murdering the trees for the power company.

Don't worry about a time line on things and you won't sweat it not finishing projects so much. It takes me FOREVER to complete some tasks, but when it's done, it's done how I like it. Yes, I'm self taught and still learning.
.
Fertilizer: Slow release is what I understand to be the preferred type. I use Osmacoat or however you spell that.

Your house is very like mine, but I have a porch. You were so right, those yews have outlived their aesthetic value. I hate to hurt a living plant, but oh, man, you were drowning in old bushes! I don't think your shutters look bad, because I prefer dark shutters on a house. Keep in mind shutters are a PAIN IN THE you know what to paint. I wouldn't start that project this year.

Pallets: I'm actually using 6x6s for my garden beds I got from Long Fence. They were selling weathered and checked 6x6s of all sizes for $8.00 each. I bought 54. I still need a front porch, so I plan ahead.
I used pallets and old fence panels for doors and drawer fronts for the 16' 10" wall of floor-to-ceiling cabinets I've built.
I go tomorrow to Arbutus to pick up some amazing medical equipment pallets. They're solid, 3/4" oak and gorgeous. (I did use some in my MBR cabinets.) But this batch is going to become my kitchen floor.
My porch ceiling is 37' of old fencing I took down this winter. I love all the textures and colors.

Anyway, you might want to visit the kitchen boards here for ideas. The MidAtlantic Gardening board link is below. You really ought to at least read over there, because it's very DC/surrounding area-centric. Lots of help and ideas, too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mid Atlantic Gardening board

Darnit! I hope I haven't ruined my soil forever. Ugh.

My thought process was, last year was our first year here and the backyard is paved in two areas-- weeds in between all the pavers. I don't want to use chemicals back there because of the kiddos and the chihuahua so I tried the vinegar. It worked well but I had to do it a couple months later again. So... I figured it'd work well on the garden patch now and then in a couple months when it's not working anymore I can just hand pull whatever's come back and then newspaper and mulch. I actually have done the newspaper thing the last few years at my old house, and loved it. Someone before me there had used that plastic stuff which I guess in theory might be a good idea but I kept seeing it come up here and there so over time I removed it all. Was a huge thorn in my side til it was all gone and guess what? I have it here too, yay for me.

Ok. Sigh. I guess I will table planting out front for next year after all.

I was just reading up on fertilizers... and AL's gritty mix for containers... and lime for my garden. Soil sample said we have low pH in the grass (so I guess I went ahead and made the garden area low too! Or even lower, if that was all low) and apparently lime is needed to raise it. Was going to buy some lime tomorrow. Wonder if I could just put some in garden too and turn it all over? Or maybe I need to leave well enough alone now, ha. Thank goodness I have everything in containers!!!!

Your porch and cabinets sound really cool. Do you have pics posted anywhere here?

I'll check out the mid Atlantic board, thanks! Wonder why this site doesn't have a spot for us to mark our favorite boards and posters. And why is it so difficult to figure out how to post more than one pic at a time?? Sheesh.

I think you might want to get a soil testing kit before you start throwing stuff into your garden. Who knows? You might have brought the pH to the right levels with the vinegar?! You can get them at most hardware stores and definitely a Southern States. Not expensive.

You have a built-in place to save your favorite boards. It's called you Favorites or your Bookmarks. As far as people? No, but the ones you like you probably will have met on a board you're interested in in the 1st place, so you'll find them there.

No, no decent pics, actually. My cell phone tends to take dark pictures. It is in my plan to at least get a disposable and try to take some. I'll let you know when I get my butt around to doing that.

Hi Nikki, Heres a 'Veridis' i grew in zone 7 full sun. It was 12 ft. across when i removed it. So you want to give it ample room. And as ggal said above...it would enjoy some late day shade during the hot months.

Al

CEF, we don't have a Southern States but there's a farm supply near me that does it for $15- that's where I had the soul sample from the grass tested. I'll drop off one for the garden bed next week sometime.
Thanks for the info on the boards or favorite places. The only thing like that I see is called "clippings", is that what you're referring to? I tried to save this one to my clippings but it won't let me. Wouldn't let me post anything yesterday either, maybe it's my computer acting up or something. I'll try again.

Alleycat, that's a beautiful Viridis! I think I've decided on a spot for mine, with enough room and mostly sun, shade starting around 4:30ish. But for now I will keep it in the container, seeing as how my soil is far from "right". Working on that now though : )

I wasn't referring to gardenweb, but to your browser's Favorites or Bookmarks. Depends upon which browser you're using.

This isn't Pinterest or Hometalk. It's a far older, more established board, but the technology they use is such that group discussions are easier to follow and track. IMHO, I'll take this any single day over a blog, where you get one person view on life as they see it! :)