As I have said MANT times I think the zone thing is a crock...a zone 5 may NOT live in zone 5 and a zone 6 may ...I have found nothing to give me ANY cofidence that the specified zones used by sellers or in jm lituature is in fact correct , tested or even studied. If any one out there has differnt info please post it!!! I do think when you see the words 'fragile or early leafer ...THEN you can be assured it may not grow in colder or hotter areas . Most folks do agree zone 6 is perfect for most all jm's ...but most of us DON'T live there . If everyone posts their experiences each year on the thread I will post in late spring with lists of thiose that made it through the winter ...and post conditions of that winter then over the next few years we will have a pretty good idea bout what "works" and what "doesn't" . It won't be totally scientific cause location wind exposure disesase and other "stuff" make it not a perfect study ...but it will hopefully give us zone 5 folks some guidance that IMHO we do NOT now have!!! David

I'm finding this to be the case. I'm seeing zone info "sliding around" from one JM dealer to the next. I just found a site that lists all cultivars (including the ones mentioned) as zones 5-9. Then another site has some as good to zone 5 and some as good to zone 6, but what it's based on is never given. "crock" pretty much sums it up. Experience with the plant should be the rule of thumb. Which ones have been successfully grown in the extremes of the range both on the colder side and the hotter side.

I've decided that where a tree needs to succeed in less than optimal conditions I will plant an older one of a JM type known for cold hardiness (Bloodgoods, green Acer Palmatums (I assume this is correct?), and on another forum Emperor I's), and then to plant all other cultivars of little known results in the area where I have optimal protection. This area can then be used to plant younger trees as well to experiment with. I think it is definitely a good idea to keep people informed as to which ones succeed.

And this could then be extended to people who have to face the harsh sun of the south. Which ones can take sun exposure--meaning full sun(rare) and afternoon sun. Here (northern Illinois) at least it seems afternoon sun is okay as long as it isn't all day. But I will see how many hours is okay.

You may have posted this before I joined the forum David, but which cultivars have you been able to successfully grow?

Most of my cultivars except bloodgoods , atropropuriums and a seedling upright ( that is spectacular and really differnt that I plan to propagate) and generic disectum ...have but one winter in the ground ...and as you know this past winter was more zone 6a like...at least a bad 6a winter... so as i said this may take some time..I will try to find the old thread for ya ...yes I posted here and at Daves Garden the ones that made it ( all did )and others that posted to the thread.

You make a good point not only for the south ..but for us folks up here ...sun exposure is the other variable that NO one agrees on except for varigated varieies that most think should be mostly shade ...the problem then becomes you get no color ...so it is an inigma ...but I think most cultivars even those that take full sun...like E1 and fireglow.... will do OK in morn. sun and afternoon shade ...unfotuntely we don't always have that option in our yards ;>) david

Let me know how the Chishio holds up as I have a 4 footer in a pot that I have been overwintering in the garage. Would be nice to put it in the ground.

I have a Bloodgood, three stems, grew in a pot for maybe 5 years, root pruned every couple of years, sunk pot in ground in winter, finally planted it in ground one year ago. Gets a lot of sun, but shade for half day most of year. Seems to be doing well.

An update from another forum I visited. It looks like the following cultivars can be added as successfully grown in Zone 5--at least in zone 5b, but from the info and descripton of the climate should be fine for zone 5a as well. The following were said to have been successful over some time.

Ever Red
Tamukeyama
Viridis
Green Filigree
Shishigashira
Butterfly
Osakazuki
Oregon Sunset
Trompenburg
Garnet
Crimson Queen
Beni shishihenge
Asahi zuru
Ao kanzashi
Beni otaki
Eagles Claw
Higasayama
Kamagata
Katsura
Mary Katherine
Mikawa yatsubusa
Murasaki kiyohime
O Kagami
Omato
Orido
Nishiki
Saoshika
Waterfall
Ukigumo

The following young trees survived one winter according to the grower:

Koto no ito
Shaina
Pixie
Sister ghost

The ones that did not survive by the same grower,but did not specify why:

Orangeola
Tsuri nishiki

Doubtful in this zone:
Beni kawa
Sango kaku

The red barked palmatums (like Sango kaku) are said by another grower to be less hardy in this zone, also, Seiryu is said to suffer some tip die-back due to earlier frosts here.

Unsuccessful but why is never given:
Hanami nishiki
Kotohime

This then is a much larger list than I could ever have given myself though none of the ones I'm planting are listed here.
I hope this list helps others as it did for me. I did not put on the list known successful cultivars in this zone.

interesting list ...I might caution again it is VERY important in how protected the area they were planted in ...out on the prairie might illicite a differnt result???!!! Most of these I would agree with ...although orageola I would question for not being zone 5..no scientific data just a suspicion it will do ok except in extreme conditions and pixie which is an offspring of a bloodgood so I can't see why it wouldn't do well here but again just a suspicion... on the other side Katsura ...it is a really early leafer and tender as well and I would expect even normal spring frosts in our zone would get do it in quickly ...David

From m y experience the hardiness ratings given for JM need to be qualified ratings. I live in an older established suburban neighborhood, that is about 30 plus years old with lots of established large trees, hedges etc, 20 miles north of Indianapolis, zone 5b. The area is not a windswept, sun-baked new development, but what I consider moderated environmnet. In that environment I have lost Sango Kaku twice (move dit to a different, more protected area and so far it works), had severe die-back on Bloodgood in the first year, hich is slowly recovering from it. My Seiryu is doing fine, no dieback for the last three years, same for Ever Red and Viridis dissectums. And of course the rgular A. palmatum seem to shrug the winter off just fine... Tamukeyama has done well last winter, as did A. shirasawanum Aureum and Autumn Moon, but then again, we had a mild winter. My A. japonicum Attaryi didn't make it through last winter...not sure why. That's my experience so far, I will try others in the future.

I realize that some clarification needs to be made. The posts I saw were from of a couple of JM enthusiasts, one living in Peoria IL, the other in western Illinois. Both have what would be considered very good protected locations with mature trees and ample protection from sun and wind. They are determined to find as many types to grow in their zones for JM's!

As you say David and marcindy, qualification definitely is in order. That being that given a protected location in the given zone 5b these can grow--but of course basic tree care must be practiced. How much and what was done for these trees is not mentioned, however, probably care was plenty as one of these growers is extremely experienced with many pot grown trees.

Good news is that one of the growers was able to successfully grow a few less known cultivars as one year old trees and see them through the winter--they are still alive I take it just not long enough to put on the success list yet: that is the Shaina, Pixie, Koto no ito and Sister ghost.

Also, Seiryu was grown successfully as well. It should be placed on the success list. The qualification being that it gets leaf tip dieback.

Now, Sango kaku is another story. It is often touted as being zone 5a ready but this is not the case according to these growers, and the experience of marcindy seems to bear out that these trees are not hardy (or easy) for this zone.

The Orangeola was mentioned as not having survived but it was a one year old. I agree with David that probably this was an exception. I bet an older Orangeola would've survived. However, the second person was pretty emphatic about the failiure of the last two on the list.

Ezochi... your posts have been VERY informative... I think in your last post you hit on something I have been hammering since day one ..Although I have NO scientific knowledge or double blind studies to back this up ... I DO think anyone success in our zone with many JM's will be greatly enhanced by BUYING MORE MATURE TREES!!! I can't hardly get 1 year old grafts to last my summers let alone winters...they are TINY... Let alone having to wait til your half dead to see a mature tree ...the small root system and graft newness is IMHO a recepeit for disaster in non perfect JM areas ... I always tell folks save your money and buy at least a true two or three + year old grafted tree... and BEWARE a 1 year old ebay tree is most likly only four months old NOT 1 year ...it is IN IT'S first year...a true 1 year old tree is winter grafted at least 1 full year before it is sold !!!!!!!!!! David

I'm going over to the nationally famous Botanic Gardens this afternoon in Highland Park IL. I'll keep any eye out for JM's growing in the Japanese Garden there.

As has been said we should keep a record of all the cultivars that can be grown in the zone. Thanks for your post marcindy. We'll add the following as successful at least in 5b, should be good in a protected areas of 5a:

Seiryu
A. Shirasawanum Aureum
Autumn Moon

The others you've had success with have been mentioned already in the long list, and Bloodgood and green A. palmatums we know as hardy for the zone.

I'm learning quickly on ebay (as anywhere else) you pay for what you get. On the other hand they do have good prices on two and three year olds as long as the bid doesn't get too high!

David, on the other side of the coin, I just got a thick, large more mature A. palmatum green variety (not a bargain) from a local nursery and have had to really pump a lot of water to it--it's thirsty and just got put in last weekend! I'm observing that the younger three-year old or two-year old doesn't need as much water. Instead of an hour soak just a five minute to ten minute soak seems to satisfy them.

I will stick with three-years old + trees (if possible) though.

here's the link to Daves garden where i started a thread on this ...it was easier to find than the thread I posted here and differnt folks posted... you should be able to access without joining if not let me know and I'll cut and paste it ...will keep looking for the GW thread...

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/594350/

here's that friggin link thought I'd NEVER find it ...the original post is the same as was posted at daves... and please be advised last winter around here was relatively mild ...more like a very cold zone 6a...David

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/maple/msg0418563020755.html?7

Great link David! I guess you already got this ball rolling back in the Spring. Having lists really helps, particularly because there is NO reliable info on zones.

I have to say you were real busy planting last year! What is good is to see how these and other cultivars fare over a number of years.

yes if everyone in our zone participates that is here and at daves ( yah right ) we shall know in a few years unless global warming throws a wrench in but then zone 5 temps ...highs and lows will be adjusted ...zone 4 can also participate but it will be a MUCH MUCH smaller list ... description of winter and [planting conditions though must be included or it is as usless as udders on a boar ( not exact mid west saying as to get it past the word "censors")

OH bTW I have at least doubled that list this year ;>) David

I think a lot of Jap maples are hardier than they are given credit. Here in NE Ohio (which is fairly urbanized) , I've found that especially if you live in one of the larger cities, you can grow almost any zone 6 plant even though most of the area is rated z5b... The heat island effect has a lot more to do with overwintering palmatums than it is given credit. In regards to Sango Kaku... it has done very well for me in NE ohio for about 5-6 years now... Never any dieback, though it is in a protected situation, but gets a good deal of winter sun... Also, in my experience, if you can bite the bullet and buy a larger plant, you will also have a better chance of winter survival. Anyway's I know for a fact that there are MANY large Jap maples of all types, besides Bloodgood that went through our record lows of -20F to -25F in 1994, UNDAMAGED... here are some of the ones I've had good luck with in the past years:
Crimson Queen
Koto no Ito
Virdis
Toyama Nishiki
Ueno Yama
Peaches and Cream
Johnnies Pink
Sango Kaku
Butterfly
Tsuma Gaki
Higasayama
Sagara Nishiki
Kamagata
Ukigumo
Oridono Nishiki
Aka shigitatsu sawa
Beni hime
Beni Tsukasa
Beni Komachi
- a few others I can't recall off hand...
My point being, If you see an intersting one, give it a shot... I've been surprised as to what has actually survived for me... There are a lot of Microclimates that can add just a few extra degrees that can really make the difference regarding survival in more difficult winters...

I might add to Donny's post ( which i agree with) The condition of your plant is also important...a cold winter with wind may hasten it's demise if it has other "problems"... and if you do have "some" die back is it the worse thing to happen...At the same time I would assume some jm's probably won't grow even in a suitable micro climate..,.but the micro climate statement is a good one and large cities or areas with warmer lake or ocean winds could create such a micro climate...and some cultivars may be strains that can better take certain climates even though they have the same name ( ie: one sango may take lower temps than another...) But I am also pretty sure that where ever you are some cultivars probabably will winter kill in severe conditions no mattter what!! And always remember growers don't like or want to replace plants so they will always be prone to underestimate the zone and most are in love with the #6 even though many will survive at least 5b. And as far as i know there is NO specific group or clearing house that has tested any of these cultivars scientifically ...if any of you know of such a testing programs for jm's PLEASE speak UP most I think is either unscientific observation or copied of copied of copied info of unknown origin!! David

The zone thing is hard to say as many times a JM may bite the dust and you don't know why. I have had plain old generic A. palmatum die over a period of several years. I couldn't figure out why. I have had Sango kaku in a protected site for 10 years. I have had REd Dragon for 1 year. A. shirawawanum Autumn Moon for 1 year. Crimson Queen 1 year. Orangeola in and exposed spot but with stakes and burlap around it in the winter for 1 year. My favorite tree is a 18 year old generic red JM but it is on it's way out from verticilium. We have not had a true -20 winter around here for a long time but my soil is not very good either with pH about 7.5 or 7.6.

Thanks for the list doniki! That is quite a number of cultivars. As an aside I know you probably didn't know this but it is best to abbreviate the Japanese Maple as JM (the use of "Jap" can be interpreted in the wrong way, like the "N" word).

Anyhow, I was disappointed by my trip to the Botanic Gardens this weekend. The lack of JM's there was sort of confirmation to what I had feared about my zone. They had a number of cold hardy Maples in the Japanese Garden. The only Acer Palmatum was in an enclosed tea garden, completely sheltered by a maze of hedges and fences and almost fully shaded. It was a lone Acer Palmatum dissectum, species unknown!! That's what the tag said. And this is supposed to be one of the best gardens around.

So now a foray into the dark. Here are the Maples that stood out that are FULLY COLD HARDY to probably zone 4 becasue that's the way I think they designed it:

A. japonicum, Aconitifolium --the best looking one on the main island--like a "maiku jaku" and just as pretty but sitting there like a stud exposed to the elements.
Shantung Maple--I know nothing about this, but it was nice.
A. japonicum, Aureum, a very nice small tree in the tea garden.
Amur Maple, again I don't know much on this one but nice.

My conclusion after some reading--I picked up an excellent book on Maples there. A. palmatums may not be the best for people who want to plant and "forget about it" for this zone. A. japonicum and its cultivars are great looking, just as good as any of the best AP's but are fully cold hardy.

I did some reading on this and found that these maples from Hokkaido (old name "Ezogashima" after the ethnic group there) do real well in this zone: this includes A. japonicum, A. nipponicum, A. buergerianum, and A. shirasawanum, and their cultivars. I just don't know much about the other ones from Shantung and Manchuria--these should be good to zone 2!

The comments on micro climates is very true. I noticed on a zone map that Chicago is zone 5b even though it is surrounded by zone 5a! My Crimson Queen is inspiration to push the envelope here with JM cultivars, but I'd like to explore related species that are real cold hardy.

most nuseries around here sell QQ's so I don't think you should worry at all ...all reports here and at daves are they can be grown in 5a no problema...I might add if I were you I would revisit the gardens and talk with the staff or email the director and find out #1 have they EVER had AP JM's and if so were they killed off in those brutal 80's winters ( 25 below PLUS)...or if not ... why they have not introduced them since many should do fine there...there web site mentiones bloodgood ...there should have at least been one of them ...I know there is a large nusery I ran accrross in the chicago area that has a big selection ...they just list stuff no pics ...but I can't find it now I ran accross it googling several times in the past so I know they are sold in chicagoland and grown outside of pots...so I am kind of miffed the garden didn't have any !!!??? David

Like David said, if you see a particular cultivar reappearing in nurseries in the area, in all probability they have a fairly good chance of survival in that *most* nurseries are not brave enough or can not afford to take a financial hit if a plant dies and is returned... I think another problem though with growing Jap maples in z4 and colder z5 is the duration of cold, even though the cold might not be severe... Just because a JM will survive one night in 10 years between -10 and -20F here in Cleveland, does not mean it will survive consecutive nights between -10 and -20F in ex.. Minneapolis... Another big factor I noticed is sun exposure... A lot of damage happens to JM's in exposed, sunny areas when in Feb and Mar the sun angle is higher and temps are fluctuating greatly, thus causing bark split on even hardier varieties.. A good idea is to keep JM's out of winter sun and wind.. an area that will get cold in winter and stay cold, minus the extremes of temps due to sun exposure...to increase there chance of survival...

I think we can DEFINITELY STATE that with the right conditions, micro-climate, wind protection, etc., it seems that almost any JM can be grown in the zone 5 area--including zone 5a. Looking at the lists I think I can be confident that given the right conditions I should be able to plant ANY JM cultivar. BUT as all have said, we really haven't experienced winters with low temps like the late 80's in the -25 range over several days in the Midwest zone 5 region. My temps here have been 5b-like the past several winters not going below -15 that I remember anyways.

Even at the Botanic Gardens the enclosed Zen garden (in the Japanese Garden) had the unknown dissectum growing fine. David, I think that their policy is to use lower limit tolerant trees to avoid having to replace them, and to make it easier for maintenance. I found it interesting because I learned about some very hardy types.

Scientifically too, if the parent lineage is cold tolerant like the Acer palmatum then the children cultivars should be too. (It is patent NONSENSE to have a list that says that Acer palmatum (the green variety) is zone 5, and then list all its cultivars as zone 6 like I have seen on some nursery sites).

I think what happened is word of mouth about a failiure here and there of some JM cultivar spread through the nursery industry, and so the more delicate or fancy looking cultivars were bumped up a zone, and as in my case with a local nursery stopped carrying them altogether! BUT none of this is based on actual empirical evidence. As kvolk's post kind of summarizes my experience too--I had a seeming cold tolerant Bloodgood that bit the dust after one winter--but the cause of its demise probably had nothing to do with the cold. I have a laceleaf Crimson Queeen that has been through a couple of winters and a severe drought (of course I had to water it a lot during that time).

Now, there are contrary exceptions to this. :) In unprotected (or sites you don't want to do anything with) for zone 5a it is better to go with Acers (Maples) you know are hardier than zone 5.

Even here after looking at the trees at the Botanic Gardens (next I will go to the Morton Arboretum-I hear is good for Acers) it is interesting that Acer japonicum cultivars "Aconitifolium" are sitting out in the open with no real protection as far as I can see on the main island in the Japanese Garden. That speaks volumes to me about the hardiness of these strains.

So, I'd like to explore some of these other related cultivars like japonicum and shirasawanum (a branch off japonicum), and even others considered non-JM Acers like sieboldianum and ginnala (Amur Maple) which come from continental northeast Asia which have much colder temps than zone 5. An American variety called circinatum has very JM like qualities but is hardier at least from what I have read. I probably won't have to go past japonicums since these have many cultivars that are JM like.

And JM-like is again the standard becasue they are the best no doubt in my mind becasue of their variety and beauty, and size. They and japonicum cultivars are small enough you can plant a number of them in a single yard.

We could have a good cold winter and that will tell alot but still not everything as has been said ...three words are primary in our zone ..PROTECTION ,PROTECTION,PROTECTION...there are alot of variables thats why for me to absolutly believe in zones I'd have to see a scientific study ...

But then with global warming ...we may become the next mecca for jm's... the southeast and northwest coasts being either under water or too hot ;>)

I've checked out the Maples of the world book by Van Geldren at the local library and all JM's are listed as zone 6 (except for the parent of all the cultivars Acer Palmatum as zone 5!), almost all Acer japonicums as zone 5 (except for the parent as zone 6!)--how can the parent in one case be a zone lower and in the other case a zone higher? Absolutely no logic in it. You know that it isn't based on science or even observation.

The well done site by Mountain Maples has many exotic and new cultivars as zone 6 and others as zone 5--I think probably i'm just guessing here--that this zone info is based on experience or knowledge of customers who have grown the listed cultivars in zone 5. That is the only way some of these type of listings (on other sites as well)can be explained.

It is not just JM's though. I've seen other Acers on nursery sites list Acer burgerianum erroneously as zone 6 or Acer sieboldianum or Ussuri Maple as zone 6 (both are zone 4) as their homelands where the tree originated is very cold. So--just a thought in clarifying all this confusion find out where the Maple originated or thrived and then this will give a good indication of its zone hardiness.

Of course right now I've got the opposite problem at this time as I'm fighting the heat and humidity as temps this weekend hit the high 90's here with the heat index at 105. I'm just trying to make sure my newly planted JM's survive the summer!

Where do you all 5 zoners in IL get mature-sized JMs? All I could find in local nurseries in DuPage county are bloodgood, bloodgood and bloodgood. Would love to know what local nurseries carry a good selection of mature-sized APs (3' to 4' or taller).

Thanks for help!

Locally, Castle Gardens Nursery in Volo (Lake County) has a better selection of more mature, larger JM trees, but you do have to pay for it. This year there were nice Emperor I's and Burgundy Lace in the $200 to $350 range. These are large 5 to 6 footers if you like immediate gratification and your budget allows for it. But even they have a narrow selection. The good thing is they carry trees that are known to be hardy in this area.

However, if you read the posts here you'll see that for a much wider selection of cultivars I've no choice but to turn to the internet. I don't know of anywhere around here that has a large selection of cultivars.

I've done some ebaying, and this is a great place to start out to find out about cultivars and dealers that are available, but as David posted some of the trees listed there as being a certain size or age are not. Always go with a dealer who has a photo of the actual tree you are bidding on--that's what I've learned after a few bumps. They do have a few three year old and older trees--very few though.

Through ebaying I found a good source recently of four to five year old trees at a good price--J&D's Backyard Nursery
http://nurserygirl1.tripod.com/ They are very nice, and their trees arrive well-packages in very good condition with the pot.

Another site I've recently discovered is Forestfarm.com, and it looks like they've got a huge selection of not only JMs but also Japonicums and other Acers at sort of hard to believe prices. However, I've never purchased from them.

I've also read in other forums about Dune Lane Nursery--that they are real good. http://daylily.net/dunelanenursery/japenesemaples.htm
Again, I have not had personal experience with them but their prices look good for four year old trees.

Yes there are a few places to buy larger jm's on the net ...email me personally and I'll send you a few names that goes for anyone reading this i don't mind personal email thats why I post mine!!..
I had a bad experience with ray at forest farms who basically told me to take my biz elsewhere( I guess I asked too many questions;>) but when I spend a 100+ $$ I should be able to get answers) ...never had that happen before with a jm dealer ...although others have had luck with them. Dune does NOT answer email and ships bare root in fall and spring unless they've cghanged since last year I had to email them several times and got a reply a month ltr ...took them off my list... that has been my greatest problen getting these dudes to answer emails ..I think if your gonna to etailing and have a web site with email and want to do biz you should answer promptly ...if not go brick and mortor and use your web site for directions to your nursery ONLY!!!! David

Where to buy mature JM's in the Midwest? Try Milaegers in southeastern WI. It is in Racine which is about 15 miles from the Illinois border. I bought a JM there at the beginning of last summer and it doing great.

Milaegers.... they don't do "mail order" and have no web site ...if you live close check 'em out they may have stuff...no way of telling if it's just bloods , atros, and crimsons...then you can most likely do the same or better "locally" and definitly BETTER elsewhere on the web...David

Thanks for the info jeuck. I am about 15 minutes from the border! Do you know if they stock all different cultivars of JMs or just a few. I would jump up and down with joy if they had more mature selections of cultivars but without a site I can only rely on hearsay. Do you have their phone number? I could find out what they carry in the Spring. I know right now lots of places are thin.

Milaeger's Nursery. 4838 Douglas Avenue Racine, WI 53402 Phone: (800) 669-1229.

I'm a relative beginner growing JM's since 2006, but just using common sense tells me that much of the cold hardiness info for Acer Palmatums is incorrect as many people have found through their experience.

Anyhow, as I've done in the past year I'll do again. What made it and what didn't and the reasons for it. This time I'll also make comments on what has done well.

What didn't make it this year:
Oridono nishiki -no more than two yr. old (planted last Fall) died as a result of the roots being exposed to prolonged cold weather. It might have been a squirrel that dug and exposed it. Others have found this to be a cold hardy plant so I attribute this to just bad luck.

Bloodgood -(planted 2006) surprisingly did not make it because it leafed out too early and we had a cold April. A cold snap after leafing out did it in. This is not zone specific but can happen anywhere except perhaps for the PNW (west of the Cascades).

Jiro Shidare - 5yr. tree (planted last year)- died as a result of being stripped of some bark by rabbits.

Supposed solid Zone 6 plants that have survived in zone 5 winter 2007-2008 where snow covered the ground for two months:
Villa Taranto (3 yr. tree)- except for rabbit damage, came out fine in Summer.
Shin Chishio - (4 yr. tree)like above rabbit cut down in size, but vigourous growth this Summer. I also transplanted it in Spring.
Koto no Ito - (2 yr. tree) did fine. Lots of new growth this season.
Coonara Pygmy - (3 yr. tree) like above sustained rabbit damage but lots of new growth.
Ukon -only a yr. old ebay tree planted in 2006. Last two years cut in half by rabbits but every comes up again! This year shows vigorous growth.

Others that did fine which have been grown by other zone 5 gardeners:
Beni Otake (2 yr. tree)
Beni Shichihenge (3 yr. old)
Red Dragon (3yr. trees)
Dissectum Nigrum (AKA Everred)at least a 6yr.tree

Other trees that have shown exceptional growth:
Palmatum palmatum (parent) - grew at least two feet last two years in relatively exposed location.
Hogyoku - a foot of growth this season
Red Emperor - a foot this season
Yezo Nishiki - hard to estimate but doubled in both height and width this season! Planted last year.
AJ Aconitifolium - (over six yr. tree and a four yr. tree)a foot in height and breadth

Others that have not grown as much but have done well:
Nuresagi - (four yr. tree)last year grew tremendously. Slowed down this year.
Crimson Queen (planted back in 2004 before I started collecting). Is nice tree that produces many shoots but does not change in height. Perhaps one foot breadth change in four years.
AS Aureum - (four footer unknown age) has not grown much but is a beautiful tree.

More later,
Ken

Ken,
Thanks for the info. I have a small collection of JMs and would eventually like to add to it. The above list will be very helpful.

I find the snow is what is most difficult to deal with further north. It really trashes the branches. We have to regularly brush them off and shovel out around them after major storms.

I have had success with Bloodgood, Waterfall, Viridis, Garnet, Crimson Queen, Beni Maiko, Beni Schichihenge, and Orangeola. All have been in for 7-9 years. The first 5 have been growing very quickly, and the last 3 are much more slow-growers. We unfortunately lost our beautiful Waterfall this year from voles. We had so much snow cover, they were under the snow eating the bark. They ate a 4-5" strip around the entire trunk. Dead as a doornail. It was heartbreaking. That tree had the most beautiful fall color, although Fall of 2007 was a dreadful year for color for my JMs. Not sure why.

They say Acer japonicum varieties are more cold hardy than palmatums. You may want to try those out. I bought a Woods #2, Acontifolium, and Otaki this year. There are more varieties I don't have yet. Also, Acer pseudosieboldianum (korean) is supposed to have awesome fall color and is hardy to Zone 3! Looks like a shirasawanum.

OK, on a different note - what is the deal with the critters up there!? Is there rabbit repellant or something you could use to keep them off your trees??

Thanks,

K4

thyme2dig it's good to know that you've had success for 7-9 years with those cultivars. It is encouraging. That's too bad about the Waterfall. I just put one in this Spring.

The snow is the culprit to answer K4. The last two Winters the snow has been on the ground for a month or two without melting due to snow storms coming in every week. Even when the roads are cleared the yard is covered and then the temps drop down to the single digits to keep it there.

Last two Winters due to snow cover rabbits aren't able to get to their preferred forage so they go for whatever they can eat in desperation--even bark and twigs! I see their foot prints and the characteristic round droppings. They've attacked Pines (with soft needles) and Maples and bushes.

The trees with some chicken wire or metal mesh usually escape damage so I put these around my small trees, but unfortunately this winter the snow level eventually reached above the mesh enabling them to easily reach the branches! Boy was I mad. I'll certainly consider rabbit repellant, but I don't know how well it would work on snow that accumulates from time to time.

As for Acer Shirasawanums and Acer Japonicums I have put in two this year, AJ Lovett and AS Palmatifolium. The latter is very nice. Lovett is one of the few dwarf or small AJs. I also have two AJ Aconitifoliums that are one of my favorite trees and an AS Aureum. However, unless you have a very large space, many AJ and AS trees eventually reach medium size, though I have not seen that size ever around here. Palmatums have many dwarves and small sized trees and a greater variety of leaf types, etc..

Okay, I'll bite... I've posted bits of this elsewhere, but feel compelled to contribute to this important thread.

I now have 7 Japanese Maples, 3 in pots, and 4 in the ground. These are the cultivars I'm growing:
In the ground:
--Bloodgood
--Seiryu
--Butterfly
--Orangeola

In containers
--Emperor 1
--Inaba Shidare
--Sango Kaku

I'm happy to report that my bloodgood is putting on all kinds of new growth and seems to be adjusting after an early summer windy week that turned its leaves brown. Also, I'm growing my Orangeola, Butterfly and Seiryu in full sun and they are also all putting on new growth.

My winter method is to insert 4 stakes around the tree, wrap the stakes with chicken wire fencing, and wrap the fencing with burlap. The winter wind, and wind in general seem to be the real problems here. I have planted a row of Junipers to act as a screen and protect the trees I have in the ground, but these are not quite tall enough yet. I am interested to hear from other people what they do for the winter, which cultivars work in what locations, etc...

My trees in containers are lined with bubble wrap. Someone suggested that to me a few years ago. I use plastic containers, and bring them in the garage for the winter. I lay down a layer of bubble wrap between the container and the garage floor, wrap the pots with more bubble wrap, blankets, old sleeping bags... anything...

This may all seem like a lot of work, but have you seen what they do in some places in Japan?

I have generally found people at nurseries here to be skeptical and discouraging, and most of the information available to be quite conflicting in terms of conditions, etc... and I realize that the environments vary so much that this is naturally the case. However, I think those of us willing to experiment in colder zones, might learn a lot from each others experiences. Thank you for this thread!! I have also seen my zone to be rated anywhere from 5a to 6 depending on the map. Global warming?

I'm also looking forward to shaping over the winter. I have finally picked up Vertrees Japanese Maples book, and another by Hobson about pruning and shaping called "Niwaki". Both of these are excellent resources, and while I had heard about Vertrees (THE book on Japanese Maples) the other was new. Niwaki is a fantastic explanation for pruning, shaping, and working with your trees to achieve the effects of the Japanese Gardens. In fact, it explains exactly how to do it...

Anyhow, I'm also excited that I have 4 seasons of gardening rather than the 2-3 of the standard western garden. Fun!
Tom

Interestingly, in 10 years, I have never seen a rabbit in my yard. Just tons of voles. We had snowcover from Dec thru Mar. When it finally melted I found nice little nests all over the garden and tunnels around almost every single perennial. It is amazing so much survived. They just had a field day under the snow. The chicken wire idea for the bark protection is great. I had not thought about that, as I had never experienced any critter eating my trees before! I am definitely going to adopt that technique.

I also think I am going to try the stake/chicken wire/burlap idea. That sounds like it may really work. I have been trying to figure out how to protect the trees a little bit more from snow. My only concern is that if the chicken wire gets filled with snow, then what? The weight of that snow really does a job. My viridis is about 6 X 6 and my crimson queen is about 3 X 6, so their size has always posed a challenge to figure out how to protect. I am really going to think about the chicken wire and burlap. Thanks for sharing that info.

I did plant an Acer Shirasawanum 'Aureum' about 7 years ago. Very slow grower for me. My bloodgood in 7 years was about 10', but the Shrasawanum is still only about 4-5'. It gets most excellent fall color though!

Tom, good luck with your winter-shaping, and thanks for the great info on over-wintering in the garage.

Tom,

Thanks for mentioning this. Winter protection from cold winter winds is definitely a must for most but especially us. We discussed this issue above in a few posts, but my backyard where most of my garden (and Japanese Maples)is located is protected on all sides. Two sides, north and east, by a wood fence that borders my yard and two neighbors, and the western side by my house. The southern side has a chain link fence partially protected by bamboo fencing, beyond which is a large neighboring yard. Even the side that is more exposed has houses beyond the yard breaking up wind from that direction.

My front yard facing north gets most wind between my house and a neighbor's, but the north winds get partially blocked by the neighbor's house. Here, I have a few Maples, two of which are most exposed to wind--one an AP 'palmatum' (parent cultivar) has done fine for two years. The other a Acer Shirasawanum 'Palmatifolium' I put in this year. I will probably put wire around this and burlap or other protection as suggested. Other palmatums: A Red Dragon, Hogyoku and Bloodgood have done fine for two years and a Kandy Kitchen over the winter. These are in a bed that get some north winds exposure in the front.

Back to my backyard though I have a micro-climate created by the enclosure of the fences. I plan to extend and improve my bamboo fencing. And in fact, when I go to the best Japanese gardens typically they have all the most delicate and finer plants located in an enclosure of some sort here (at Botanic Gardens). Actually making a garden enclosure is not just for protection but looks nicer as well.

I also have two Norway Spruces anchoring the corner of my backyard garden which provide a windbreak. I also have other conifers (Pines) in the garden which provide some protection from wind too. A larger Norway Maple away from the main area provides some afternoon shade for summer heat, but I have had to prune this to allow more sunlight to get through.

My pleasant surprise is that these cultivars are much hardier than they have been given credit for, but we here in northern Illinois have not seen drastic winter temps. I haven't seen temps in the -25 degree range for over fifteen years. Since I've been collecting (very short time) the winters have reached -15, but this is only for one or two days. Long term cold fronts typically are in the zero degree, plus or minus 5 degrees range. Wind chill can be much colder. But it is the temperature below ground that is key. In fact, snow as tough as it is to deal with in some ways actually protects the roots from the cold and wind. It is a natural insulator.

The real killer is actually late frosts after a warming trend as many here on the forum can attest to--the killer Spring frost of 2007 that drastically affected the Southern states and southern Illinois though not here because the warming trend here was brief enough that it did not cause the trees to leaf. These type of events can quickly take the life of our trees as I found out this year with a small Bloodgood. Late frost can happen in any zone, but affect areas that are more prone to drastic temperature swings in the Spring.

More later,
Ken