I know I have seen a few in the Burlington area, but can't remember cultivars or varieties. Perhaps you could consult with the U of VT. Another idea, if you have the time, would be to take a trip north to Montreal, and visit the Botanical Gardens there. I would bet you could find quite a few labeled trees.

Thanks, those are good suggestions. And, in fact, I recently visited the Montreal Botanical Gardens to do just what you suggest. Having poked through the Japanese Garden I found a sign saying that they dig up their Japanese maples in the winter.

However, in the Chinese Garden (which is really worth seeing) they had an Acer pseudosieboldianum and an Acer sieboldianum, but neither label indicated the variety (actually I haven't heard of any Acer pseudosieboldianum varieties as of yet). There was also an Acer japonicum "Aconitifolium" and a bloodgood Acer palmatum . All of the trees in the Chinese garden were quite large, and I could see no evidence that they were dug up and removed in winter (after a bit of crawling around on the ground under the trees). I will inquire at the University of Vermont and see what they suggest.

Neil

Neil, U Maine has a plant hardiness listing of what they are growing.

The Minn. Landscape Arboretun had a list an several Acer p. were on it. I'll try to find it.

Ron

All right, I have a few things I managed to dig up from UVM's website.

http://www.uvm.edu/mastergardener/LPV2002/LPVindex.html

And this:
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/campus/vermont/3/18/18.html
is a picture of an Acer palmatum cultivar.

It is part of 'walk 3' on this:

http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/campus/vermont/vermont.html

Here is a link that might be useful: UVM Landscape Plant for VT publication

Hi Ron:

I found a U. Maine list that lists results of hardiness trials. Is that the list you meant? There's a lot of useful information on there, although sample sizes are small. Look's like Acer griseum does ok under what appear to be pretty cold and windswept conditions. The webpage says that someone is doing research on hardiness of Japanese maples and also kalmias. I'll see if I can track them down and bend their ear. Thanks for the lead.

If you can find the University of Minnesota information that would be great. If plants grow there, they'll grow in VT.

Neil

Hi RIconiferman:

Thanks for the links! I'll get down to campus and check out that walk. I've seen the book you mentioned and it's helpful, but unfortunately it doesn't really get into varieties much and also doesn't deal with some of the species I'm interested in.

Neil

Hi Neil,

A fellow biologist and plantsman living in Sheriden Wyoming zone 4 (elevation 5000' temp down to -17° F with blazing sun in the summer) that likes to experiment has planted the following (with success for several years):

griseum
pseudoplatanus 'Prinz Handjery'
pseudosiebolianum
truncatum
rubrum 'Autumn Flame'
ginnala 'Flame'
negundo "Kelly's Gold" , "Flamingo", "Sensation"
rubrum "Northwood"
pensylvanicum
saccharinum
saccharum

He is more recently planted: pennsylaticum 'Erythrocladum, Sweet Shadow Cut-Leaf saccharum, Eskimo Sunset, Acer conspicuum "Phoenix and pentaphyllum.

He has planted palmatums but has to bring them in for the winter.

Checking out the colder arboretums is a great idea. If you come up with a list let us know what you find out!

robert

Hi Robert:

Thanks for the long list. I'm pleased to see your friend has had success with Acer griseum because I'm definitely going to plant a couple of those. Most references list the tree as zone 4 so it should do fine in Vermont and your friend's experience supports that. I was interested to see some of the snakebark varieties in the list. I have some good shade/semishade spots so I'll have to look into acquiring some of them.

I will compile the information as I come up with it and I'll be happy to share it with anyone who's interested. I strongly suspect that thanks to the wonders of genetic variation there are some varieties of mostly not-so-hardy species with zone 5 or 6 designations that will thrive in zone 4. The trick is to identify them.

Unfortunately, zonal designations (useful as they are) put people off planting things that might thrive for them. I suspect that some of that zonal information may also be based on little field data, especially in the case of rarer plants (of which there are many maples) and an initial assessment of hardiness may simply be copied from one source to another and repeated, rather than being based on independent evidence. This can result in widespread "agreement", which may not be justified by much in the way of field results. I guess what this means is that we as gardeners need to be a little adventurous in our planting and that we should share the information about our successes and failures as widely as possible.

Neil

Hi Neil, a acquaintance of mine just received his Masters from UVM in plant science or propagation or some thing plant related. He was a walking text book. He's in Connecticut now and I lost track of him.

I was in Burlington for a week when it was -20.

I tried to find that Minn. Landscape Arboretum list, no luck yet.

Ron

Hi Ron:

Thanks for looking for the list. If you can find it that would be great, but don't go to a lot of trouble. Yes, Burlington can be rather cold especially in January. We're fortunate though that we don't seem to have a huge amount of wind, at least in comparison to the plains and we, at least in the last 100 years, haven't dropped below -30F. I think because we don't get below -30 and have good snow cover that for perennials we're zone 5. Of course, snow cover is of less value for trees and -30F is pretty darn cold.

Neil

Hi Neil,

Attached is some interesting reading for you. It lists small maples for MN, but doesn't go into much detail on true Japanese maples, saying they aren't hardy. I know for a fact that some people in MN around the twin cities do growth them (zone 4a), so perhaps you might want to post your question on the Minnesota garden forum.

Regarding acer pseudosieboldianum, I currently have one and love the tree. Perhaps some day there will be different cultivars of it with varying leaf shapes and colors.

Best of luck,

Glen

Here is a link that might be useful: Small Maples for MN

Hi Glen:

Thanks very much for the link. I'm definitely going to get some of the trees on that list and I'm glad to hear you are so happy with your Acer pseudsieboldianum as that is one I will also be getting.

I recently found the Greer Gardens website and they list a large number of Japanese type maples (not palmatums) as zone 4 hardy and that conclusion is consistent with information I've picked up in dribs and drabs elsewhere. I'm thinking at this pont that I will probably ultimately buy about a dozen or so maples running through a range of size and hardiness ratings from Acer griseum, Acer ginnala, Acer triflorum, Acer shirasawanum, Acer japonicum "aconitifolium" to a couple of small dissected/mounding Acer palmatums, which will be least hardy, but can be most easily artificially protected and will also benefit from the heavy snow cover that we get. I have a good friend in Winnipeg and from what he tells me about winters there, winter in Vermont sounds like a picnic.

Neil

Monrovia Nursery has introduced a hardy red-leaved Japanese Maple called 'Emperor 1' Supposedly the parent tree is from upstate New York. Has been performing well here in Northeast Wisconsin.

Re: Acer triflorum. This maple is always the first to break dormancy at my place, frequently 2 or more weeks before any other Acer. If your site is subject to late frosts, this one will probably suffer, although it's a fairly tough and hardy plant.

Hi guys,
I've been saving information about hardier trees and here's some more for your consideration:

Acer pseudosieboldianum False Sieboldianum Japanese maple from China and Korea. Leaves as big as Acer japonicum but on shorter stems. Super amazing fall color. Zone 4
A. carpinifolium, A. tegmentosum, A. truncatum, A. tschonoskii ssp. Koreanum, and Acer 'White Tigress'
Resin from GW recommends: I think A. carpinifolium is attractive, particularly in spring when the leaves are fresh and drooping.
Acer nikoense is superb, with its lovely softly furry leaves.
Resin
Acer pensylvanicm 'Erythrocladum'
acer mandshuricum
Acer cuadatum ssp. Ukurunduense: Native to China and will be a tree, possilbly multi-trunked to about7-10m. Bark on young stems is red, especially in winter. Aged bark will be grey and fissured. Flowers are yellow and held upright. Leaves are a yellow to light green. Fall color orange and yellows. Possilby hardy to Zone 4
Acer cissifolium
'Girard's Hybrid' paperbark maple
Acer palmatum ÂRobinsons RedÂ

Dax

I live in Finland and variety of selection is limited. A. triflorum on my garden has been hardy to -30C. During those temperatures the snow is about 0,5 meters, almost two feet. Some branches above the snow dies however.

All my A palmatums and A japonicum Aconitifoliums loose most of the branches which stay above the snow.

In Mustila Arboretum there are A. triflorums, japonicums and sieboldianums which have reported to survive at -40C which equals -40F. Those are no certain varietys but collected seed specimens which Helsinki University searched from cold areas in China and Japan in the 80s.

I would like to get maples which have palmate leaves and very hardy. I think they would richen my garden and maybe in te future might produce more variety if gross pollunation occurs.

Some garden books says that in North America grows wild Acer circinatum "wine maple". I have one in my garden and it has palmate leaves but is a garden variety. Hardiness seems to same as palmatum.

Are there any gardeners which have "just plain hardy rootstock" happily growing in their garden? Don't they still win many others with their leaf shape, aurumn colour and gowing habit?

Neil:

I live in Minneapolis and my Emperor I japanese maple has made it through two tough winters with very little snow cover, temps in the teens and twenties and then plummeting down to -15. No dieback to speak of, and it has grown nicely. It is pretty close to the house, and I think because I'm in the city itself I'm pretty close to zone 5. It is a wonderful little tree -- leaves should be fully out next week.

Report on Asian Maples in Green Bay, WI after a winter in which -13°F was the official low: 'White Tigress', triflorum, manchuricum, koreanum, 'Girard's Hybrid' paperbark, shirasawanum 'Autumn Moon' and 'Aureum' palmatum 'Robinson's Red', truncatum all came through with flying colors.

Are you familiar with Cook's Illustrated? It's a magazine and a website from the same people who create the PBS show America's Test Kitchen. It's the only cooking show we watch with any regularity, and we read each issue of the magazine from cover to cover. What I love about the magazine is that they go into great deal of detail about the how's and why's of various cooking methods; I always learn something new.
---------------
Roopa

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