I never knew the nikonese was a cross of it but I recall that folks thought this was an ok tree meaning they didn't have as much regards as for the species, griseum. Maybe there was something about the bark not being as pronounced, I don't recall. Yah, I was right. The bark is still pronounced but has what one website referred to as a "cat scratch" 'feel'.

Dax

These are hybrids that supposedly offer the best of both worlds. Nice exfoliating bark and excellent fall color. Girard nurseries lay claim to a cross known as Gingerbread or Ginzam. Sid Waxman supposedly produced what is known as Cinnamon Flake.

From what I've seen, the bark is exfoliates in much smaller ribbons but still maintains the great copper color. Add to that the hybrid vigor - it is claimed to grow the same size a a. griseum but much faster (upwards of 2'-3' per year).

Most of the griseums I've come across around here really stink as far as fall color, which is mostly a muted reddish green.

Lucille at Whimans is usually brutally honest about her trees and very experienced and knowledgable ...here is a quote from her web site ... if I were you I'd pass on this one!!!! If anyone would know and be honest about a tree SHE sells.. it would be Lucille...I would say from this quote Dax was correct but being "very diplomatic" in his "OK" pronouncement of this cultivar's worthyness.

"What a loser! The whole point of griseums is the marvelous bark. This bark doesn't peel. The fall color is fine, but sorry, that is not enough."

OOPS forgot to put the above post relates to the "cross known as Gingerbread"...There may be others out there???

Dave,

I saw what Lucille had written but never had the chance to discuss this with her. I'm not sure what variety or from whom she got her trees. I have to hand it to her for being brutally honest though. That's something you don't see in the sales world too much.

I heard a lot of good things from so many other places about the tree. Maybe hers are still immature? Johnson Nurseries in Milwaukee has some that are spectacular, but can't seem to force myself to make the 5 hr trip (I can send pics if you'd like). Hoerr's in Peoria used to have them but have ran out. They also piqued my curiosity on another hybrid that's out there - A. griseum x A. mandshuricum. Some of the trees held their green leaf color so late though that an early frost hit before changing color.

By the way, thank you for turning me on to her site and Sam's (I contacted you last year about places for an Acer shir. 'Aureum'. I had to replace it after the brutal spring we had here. It's seemed to survive the horrid August and September with just a little scorch. I've got my fingers crossed for next spring.

Phil