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urbandk_gw

Have I been duped? JM Seedlings

urbandk
14 years ago

So I got the first true leaves on these seedlings. I got the seeds off ebay and they were advertised as red JM seeds. But since this is my first time trying to grow JM from seeds, i dont know what seedlings look like. some of them are all green, some with hints of red, and some with tinges of red, but nothing all red or purplish. none of the leaves are dissected. Do these traits show up later on?

Google turns up some fairly large seedlings, so i can't really compare. Are these just standard maple trees? i dont want to waste the energy (literally - they are under grow lights now) to keep it growing till spring. also i know seeds dont grow true to the parent.. but how much variation, of trees can i expect?

As you can see.. there are some fairly tiny leafed ones.. and then there are these.... any help would be greatly appreciated!

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also can someone tell me what annuals these are.. i bought these last spring at lowes and i lost the tags.. but them seem to root pretty easily in water, so i am trying to bring it thru to next spring... but i have no idea what these are called... its the pink and red ones... and they sort of look like mini flat flowered carnations.

Comments (6)

  • urbandk
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Also anyone know where i can get grow tubes? similar to the clear tubes i used above.

  • mafle
    14 years ago

    I would say you have not been duped, these are very likely the seedlings of red Japanese maples. As you noted, these plants can be very variable when grown from seed, in terms of size, shape, colour, form etc.

    The amount of red in the leaf colour also varies with light intensity in red JMs, many will green out in less than ideal light. You will have a better idea as to these young trees' true colour when you get them outside in some sunshine next summer.

    It is hard to be positive from photographs but they look like seedlings of Acer palmatum subsp. matsumurae (AKA Acer matsumurae), the group which the dissectums come from. The leaf shape is quite variable at this stage and will change somewhat as the plant grows, what is seen now can be regarded as an indicator as to the mature leaf shape, not the actual shape.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    14 years ago

    First, the dissectums have their own classification (Group 4, Dissectums; not Group 3, Matsumurae). And second, seedling-grown Japanese maples can be extremely variable. Seeds obtained from a red leaf dissectum will not necessarily bear any resemblance to the parent tree -- they might (or at least some of them might), but no guarantees.

    You do have Japanese maple seedlings - exactly what these will turn out to look like once they have some maturity is pretty much up in the air at this point. You may have some with dissected foliage but others with more traditionally lobed leaves. Some may show varying shades of red foliage; others may be completely green.

    It is all part of the attraction of growing something from seed....you are never perfectly certain what you will get :-)

    Your "annual" is a dianthus, probably a half-hardy perennial Dianthus barbatus and it is in the same family as carnations. And yes, they take quite easily from cuttings.

  • mafle
    14 years ago

    "First, the dissectums have their own classification (Group 4, Dissectums; not Group 3, Matsumurae)."

    These numbered groups are not really very helpful and seem to confuse some people. The Dissectums are a subgroup of the subspecies (or species) matsumurae. All of the dissectum cultivars are therefore also included within matsumurae.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    14 years ago

    I am not sure why these widely accepted classifications of Acer palmatum would necessarily be considered confusing. They break down the hundreds (thousands) of known cultivars according to habit/size/leaf shape and form. They certainly are much more meaningful to the average consumer than references just to subspecies. For example, seeds obtained from the Dissectum group would be expected to produce a much more uniform dissected leaf structure than would those of the Matsumurae group.

  • mafle
    14 years ago

    Hi gardengal, we are not really disagreeing on facts, more like terminology.

    The groups you are referring to are those proposed by the van Gelderens in their excellent book, "Maples for Gardens". These particular groups are not universally accepted by all Japanese maple experts, and are perhaps best viewed as a guideline rather than a rigid structure.

    In the west we refer to Acer palmatum as an all inclusive term but in Japan, where these plants come from, they are regarded as three species, palmatum, amoenum and matsumurae.

    Regardless of this all dissectum cultivars are also matsumurae. In the van Gelderen book it is made quite clear that groups 3 and 4 both belong to the subspecies matsumurae.