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Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Posted by eltejano (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 21, 10 at 6:20

I've been passing the winter working on expanding my tomato seedling production. In the course of that project, I stumbled on what I think will be a great way to transplant tomatoes. I bought a case of 4000 round Jiffy peat pots and built an outside cold frame to supplement my limited light tray space inside the house.

I germinated some old tom seed, transplanted them into the peat pots as soon as they sprouted and put them in my cold frame to test the electric heating, etc. I used some large trays with wood sides and 1/2" hardware cloth on the bottom. The peat pots dried-out completely on the first sunny day (they were totally saturated in the morning), and the seedlings died. They dry-out a lot quicker than the plastic cells.

I started another batch, and this time lined the tray bottom with aluminum foil and set the peat pots in about 1/4" of water. The pots wicked up they water and the seedlings thrived. With that solved,I began to experiment with planting techniques - and I'm pretty happy with the results.

After a lot of fiddling around, I learned that I had to trim off the top lip of the peat pot with a scissors before planting so it wouldn't wick-out moisture so fast. I also punched a hole in the bottom with the tip of the scissors, although these pots have slits in the sides. They measure 2"H X 2"W at the top and 1-1/2"W at the bottom.

Since the soil will be treated with Devrinol, I won't be able to dig up much dirt when transplanting without exposing new weed seeds at the worst possible place - the base of the plant. I pondered that problem and the answer hit me in bed one night:

The pots are almost exactly the same diameter as 2" Sch 40
PVC. So I put a bolt through the pipe at 2". Then I used it to punch a hole in my moist, sandy loam soil. The dirt went up inside the pipe, of course, leaving a nice clean hole. I trimmed and punched a peat pot, as described above, and simply dropped it in the hole! Perfect fit! Didn't need to be tamped or anything - just watered well.

I punched a dozen more holes before the dirt in the pipe needed to be dumped. When actually planting in March, I'll dump it in the pathways where I can cultivate for weeds. This was followed by several days in the 70's with nights in the 50's and the seedlings are doing fine. They will be killed by frost on Sunday night, but I've had enough time to see that this system is going to work - and a LOT easier than crawling on my hands and knees dragging a tray of plastic six packs! I can run a 100' row in minutes that way! I also found that by making the hole an inch deeper, it forms a nice basin for the transplant water.

The only problem I can think of is the fact that the pots are slightly tapered (1/2" narrower at the bottom)which could leave an air void - but I'm pretty sure the watering will fill it in quickly. I'll transplant when they they make their first set of true leaves and replace any that die. They will have been exposed to the sun and wind from the time they sprout.

Just thought I'd share it with y'all. If you think I'm full of ...manure, please tell me! :-)

Jack


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Jack, I have used peat pot for 4+ years I really like them. Last year I sold plants and they make it really hard to sell with peat pots. They just don't hold up to excessive handling. So I am going to be using plastic this year.

I put my pots in 28 quart sterlite tupperware. They are about 15 inches by 24 inches. They are 4 inches tall. I can put about 25 pots in each one. I like them because you can put water in the bottom of the tub and the pots soak up the water and it saves lots of time watering. You will get use to how much water. I would usually let them dry out a bit and then add about 1/2 inch to 1 inch of water to the tub. The pots would soak up the water in about 15-20 minutes and they would be fine this way for 2-3 days.

I like your idea on planting. I would rip the bottom off the pots. Most of the time they break down, but sometimes I would find a pot that didn't. This way the root could easily grow out and thrive.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Jack, your PCV pipe sounds like the bulb planter that I used. I got tired of getting the pipe plugged up. Now I use a bulb planter that goes onto a drill. Hubby has a battery powered DeWalt 18V with an extra battery. We can 'plug' about 50-75 holes per battery, more if the ground is soft. The bulb planter that I bought and used last year, we had to bend over alot (the planter was only about 12" long). I found a longer one after we planted everything last year, so I bought it. It has a longer shaft, we won't have to bend over as much. Only problem was planting the larger potted plants. Between 2 drills, we planted well over 400 plants in less than 2 hours, just 2 teams of 2 people.

Jack, you're teasing all of us northern gardeners. I have freezing rain all day today. It looks like about 1/4" on the trees right now.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Thanks. Mine are round. I was sorry I didn't buy the square ones - the way they fall over and stuff - but now I'm glad they're round.

Do you just let them sit in they water in the tub? No problem with too much water or etc?

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Jack, you could spread the Devrinol after you plant the trans plants, it would make your task so much easier, and you wouldnt risk losing any plants due to the air pocket, Im sure most will make it even with the air pocket , but there will be some that dont, and theres also the possibility of a slow start because of it.

What Id do would be to take a tool bar on the back of the tractor and add two shanks spaced for two rows, put a full two side sweep on the bottom of each shank, and make two furrows, unless you have a furrower which is better. Then you can walk down each row and drop in the plants and kick the soil back around the bottoms and tamp in with feet. Then go through and spray devrinol, and use a cultivator to incorporate it in.
Just my two cents take it or leave it.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Bro Josh - Can I spray Devrinol right on top of the seedlings? -I didn't know that! It's not too big a deal to just tamp around the transplant with my hands - always had to do that before

I have a tool bar but don't have any furrowers or plows. I use a big wheel push plow - never take the tractor back into the field after it's tilled. One of the other growers in our project has a Farm-All tractor and he cultivates and everything with it. I don't have the right kind of tractor. I cultivate with a small front-end tiller and hat old hand plow. Works great - fast and I can go real close to the row by just tilting it a little to one side so it doesn't dig too deep. I need the excersize. :-)

I'm going to band the Devrinol at 18" and cultivate the pathways. The actual sq footage of treatment is 12K, and I'm going apply it at the 2lb rate because my soil is sandy. So that would be 1/2 lb for the 12K area (1/4 acre) - right? I'm going to use a single high volume fan tip on the hand-held gun at 30# pressure. I've calibrated that at 3 gals mix/1000 sq ft.(based on my walking speed).

The hand gun isn't as accurate as the multi-nozzle boom - which I have but never use - because of speed control. Close enough I hope.

Final question - Using Devrinol with the hand gun, should I lean toward a "little too much" or a "little less. I'm going to strive for accuracy, but I can't get it exact without using that boom and I ain't gonna do that. I hate that thing - can't make it work!

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Bro Jack If I was closer Id calibrate your boom for you, I couldnt talk you through it, see if your extension agent couldnt help ya.

Yes you can spray the Devrinol right over your seedlings, Devrinol works with hormones, it just keeps seeds from sprouting, it has no effect on already sprouted , or green plants. Thats the difference between pre-emergent, and post-emergent, post kills green plants, and has no effect on seeds. Thus why it is so important not to spray a pre-emergent , or allow any drift into a field you plan to plant with seeds, this is the type of herbicide you see crop dusters apply over cotton, and corn, but they wait until the corn is at the second leaf.

So spraying a pre-emergent that only affects seeds Id tend to over apply, than risk under applying, because the chemical has to mix enough with the soil so as to make contact with all the seeds.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Thanks for the info, Josh. I went back and read the Devrinol label again. It says "May be applied to to direct seeded and transplanted crop."

Atually, I'll be using the metolachlor (Dual Mag) first - within a couple weeks. We plant sweet corn on 2/15 here. I've heard - maybe from you - that you have to be real careful not to over-apply that one.

When I bought my sprayer, five years ago, it came with a four nozzle boom and a hand gun. After messing around with it a little, I found I had no use for the boom, so I took the whole assembly completely off and put it in the barn. I converted the line that went from the regulator to the boom to a a water hose line - which I use to keep newly planted seeds moist and also to apply liquid fertilizer - it's very handy to have water readily available.

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Bro Jack, sounds like your ready to go,
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Bro Josh

We won't be able to get our GM corn seed this year. Our supplier only stocks the big 100M bag ($800!). They ordered the 25M bag in November for us, but Syngenta never sent it to them and now Syn is telling them it will be "a couple weeks" - and we all know that usually means several week! I think the problem is that Siegers bought all the small 25M bags, and now there's none available anywhere. We just can't use a big bag - plants 12 acres!

We can't take a chance on missing our spring planting on 2/15, so we'll be planting Bodacious instead. We have a pretty narrow window for corn. If we plant too late, insects are unbelievable and the corn doesn't do well in the intense heat. If we don't spray we might as well not even plant a non-resistant corn - there'll be 3 or 4 worms in every ear!

So I'm gonna hafta spray the silks like bad old days before bt corn. I used to use Carbaryl, but I'm switching to Bifenthrin this year. Man, I HATE that job - walking down all those rows twice a week - not too mention the toxin on the corn and working with it in those close quarters! I'm going to have to plant wider rows too, for safety and access, and that means less yield. Bummer!

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Bro Jack
Two bad a small feller couldnt get one of those funny looking spray rigs on those tall narrow wheels. Could ya imagine the looks one would get walking into the co op and asking "could I use your spray rig for my 5 acre sweet corn patch" :0)

That fella you said does most of the corn growing, couldnt ya get with him, and maybe a couple others and split a bag? just a thought, I dont like the thought of ya going in there and spraying either. Darned if ya do and darned if ya dont,

I done had my heart attack from the seed cost, Im planting 10 acres, maybe 12 just to utilize the whole bag. Itll be 825 dollars delivered to my door. I managed to acquire 15 deer depredation permits, and I have been trapping and killing coons like crazy, that corns tooo pricey to be feeding it to the local wildlife.
josh


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I finally talked him into growing the okra and I'll do the corn this year - that was BEFORE I found-out we won't have bt corn!!:-( Now I'm stuck with the spraying. I think I'm being punished! Not that I don't deserve it :-)

All our seed, chems and fertilizers are bought in one large order and paid for by the Gardeners for Jesus Project Fund. Each grower tells me what he's going to need and I do the ordering. I'm the project director and I work under the direction of a committee of five church members, including one with a BS degree in agronomy from A&M and a pesticide license.

Everything has to be cleared with the commitee - they make the decisions, pay the bills and set policies. We are strictly donation-based. All produce is given away with an obvious can nearby for those who wish to donate. We use the donations, after expenses, to send our young people on a mission trip every summer. Last year they went to Pikeville, KY where they conducted a Vacation Bible School for underprivileged children. My wife usually goes on the trip but I don't - too busy in the gardens, and I don't like dormitory sleeping arrangements! :-).

JAck


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

I went on a mission trip as a teen, we went to Vancouver BC, thats as much a foriegn country this ole boy has ever been to LOL, wasnt much differnt there as here, except believe it or not, theyre chickens, that you order from KFC, are so scrawny, I believe they must sell thier spent Leghorns for fried chicken, your basicaly getting breaded and fried chicken bones. No offense to any Canadians, just this plump corn fed American is just used to a little meat on the bone :0)

Random thoughts:

It strikes me that our commercial food industries main goal, and one in which they take great pride, is to keep food real cheap, and they do it at any cost. But is it realy cheap, thats the question no one asks. When they started with mass production, they mechanised everything, from Confined Animal Feeding Operations, aka CAFO, to giant tractors and combines, and the indiscriminate use of chemicals. You all know Im not against chemicals entirely, but its one thing to spray a 5 acre field, and another to spray a 1000 acre field, and bigger. Anything can be bad in excess.
Now these modern ag practices has displaced millions of rural people and family farms. The rural areas are dead, around me are countless remenants of tiny towns, places that used to have general stores, post offices, feed stores, garages, and gas stations, all gone. These were vibrant areas, I enjoy talking to the old timers, (no offense Jack :0) )These folks were here and lived those times. Trains made stops in these areas, loaded and unloaded goods, and folks could buy a ticket for a trip on the train. Money flowed through these rural areas. Not many were rich, but there was enough. Folks had jobs, in the towns, and on the farms. A farm the size of operation I have, I own 160 acres, and lease another 120, that was a big farm, and would employee a dozen or more folks at least part time. A few of the folks would be full time hired hands. Now you have farms of thousands of acres that might employee 2 or 3 people, you take a typical 2000 acre Indiana grain farm, like one of my neighbors, he has 2 employees, his farm is made out of what used to be 8 different farms, those farms probably had the original families employed, and at least 16 other hired hands, so thats 8 families, and 16 hired hands, versus 1 family, and 2 hired hands. So Im not convinced our food is cheap. We pay for it with a lost culture, fewer jobs, fewer buisnesses, lousy, sickening, unhealthy food, and a destroyed landscape.
Just some thoughts
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Well, Josh, the old days of the family farm are a thing of the past, that's for sure. But we can't turn back the clock. We have to roll with the punches and adapt to changing times. I grew up in that kind of farm environment and, frankly, I don't miss it. The only thing I miss about those days are the moral values - but that's another topic best left alone here. :-)

I don't share your view of modern industrial agriculture. We eat far better than I remember from the old days (pork and corn). Our diet is much better balanced and far healthier than it used to be, and that's why life expectancy has increased dramatically during my lifetime. I thank God for all the wonderful, delicious foods that I can buy from WalMart everyday at dirt cheap prices. We can all afford things now that were only luxuries that we dreamed of back then.

Nutritional diseases and vitamin deficiencies in children, things like like rickets, were very common. Infant mortality was high. We lived on smoked pork and cornbread. Life expectancy was ten years less than now. If you made sixty you were doing pretty good. I've already outlived my parents because my arteries aren't hardened by the greasy, starchy crap they ate! I can assure you that a few, miniscule traces of pesticide in our food is harmless compared to hog lard!!! Now we have choices - wholesome foods are on the shelves if we want them.

Hunger - real hunger not poor nutition from living on cokes and chips - is a thing of the past in this country. We have tons of surplus food. Nobody goes hungry anymore - even homeless people under bridges get food. We owe this to the modern agriculture/industrial system.

So, I don't see how you can say that quality of life was better back then, Josh. Talk to the old folks who remeber those days. I was there as a child and I can assure you that it sucked! Modern industrial agriculture may have caused the demise of the family farm lifestyle, but it has blessed us richly in return. There are there some downsides, of course - lazy kids, drugs, sexual immorality - but all-in-all, I wouldn't want to go back.

I admit that I see things from a southern perspective. We were in deep poverty down here for a hundred years after losing the war for southern independence. It's really only been since the sixties that the New South has flowered economically. Up your way things were always better than here - y'all won the war and your industries prospered - but I think your old folks will also agree, if they're honest about it, that the quality, variety and nutritional qualities of the foods we buy at WalMart today are a vast improvement over what we got at the local grocery store! Usually only one greedy grocer in town and he robbed us blind for the staples we had to buy!

I love WalMart and the industrial ag system that supports it.

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

If I'm to live longer than my grandparents and great-grandparents, expect me to be around for a long long time. Yes they were farmers, and ate meat and taters with no 'green' stuff. My grandparent died between 80-99 and there parents were within the same age group. Of course, they ate what they grew, and knew how it was grown and preserved. They also worked hard.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Jack a 100000 seed bag will do around 6 acres and left over seed can be used next year. One reason the seed is delivered late is because they grow it fresh down in south America. Its not old stuff left over and repackaged from last year. You need to look into building a boom sprayer that goes over the top of the corn with drop nozzles I have used this method for 30 years and it sure beats walking the rows and spraying by hand which I used to do when I was small scale. Bifenthrin can irritate your skin and does not work well in hot weather.
I used peat pot a few years but its not cost effective and the quality of the plants was no better than plastic tray grown plants. Look into getting 50 or 38 cell reuseable nursery trays... Bob.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Jack I know things were different North vs South. My dads family were from KY and I heard how crappy it was there then, my moms family were from here in IN. Things were pretty good then, for them.

But its not modern technology Im belittleing, I wouldnt give up my modern tools, seeds, animal breeds etc,. Its the Corporations that Im talking about. I have nothing good to say about Corporations. Corporations were fine while they stayed on the research and development side. But once they started in on vertical integration, thats were they crossed the line. They went so far as to lobby for laws to be changed so they could legaly do it. Rosevelt had put in fair trade laws, and anti monopoly laws to prevent such things. When you have a processing plant, that now also owns the trucking company, and now owns all the breeding stock, and now owns the animals all the wayy to the grocery store, you have unfair trade and a monopoly, which leads to look around.
Now imagine your a boy again on your folks farm, and you have all the available tools that you have now. Thats what Im talking about. Our families in the past strugglrd to get to where we are, and the heritage, the family farm is lost, after all they did and suffered to get it and keep it, it is lost to Corporate America. At a time when they could actualy make a go of it, with the modern tools seeds and chemicals etc. But no, who can compete with monopolies, who have billions of dollars at thier disposal, and can write off and not care if thier farms bleed money. Unfair trade and monopolies, thats what Im against.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Genes, Marla - y'all got good genes in your family. People have always died sooner in the south - unbelievably high diabetes rate, obesity, ignorance, poverty, heavy use of home-grown raw tobacco, along with lots of corn liquor. Worst of all, there was a lot of inbreeding. These rural communities were so isolated, prior to WW II, that nearly everone was more or less related to each other. Marrying one's cousin was a common thing - and that causes diabetes, retardation, weak immune systems and a host of other maladies. Couple all that with a bad diet and rampant obesity and you have a sickly population. Life expectancy is going up, though - still alot lower than your area, but improving.

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Thanks, Bob. I didn't know Bifen was less effective in hot weather. What do you recommend - Permethrin? Bt hasn't proved effective for me in the past. I have used some Spinosad. But, like bt, the larvae has to eat it and it doesn't effect the moths. Our corn will be in before it gets really hot. My plots are 100 feet long by 30 ft wide. I'm figurin on planting short rows crossways - that way I can pretty much reach half from each side without getting way back in there and wallowing in that stuff. I can start in the middle and back out and keep it off me - hopefully. I can also space rows at 24" and not lose any space.

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I know what you meant, Bro Josh. I was just running my overactive (nicer word than "big"lol) mouth. :-) I agree on the competition. Because I don't make my living from this, I didn't connect with that angle. But I hear what you're sayin' ! Things are fixin' to get busy here real soon and all this computer time will be over for awhile.

Jack


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Jack, I know what you mean by everyone being related to each other. the closest town to where we live, my relatives used to be the entire town, then several miners from WV moved in. Now only about 1/2 are related. Part of the non-relatives are townies that moved out to the country. I married outside the community and lived away for a few years, so now everyone thinks I'm an OUTSIDER. Just don't have the right last name, and the old-timers are dying off.


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Bro Jack
Got my monthly Farm Bureau mag. It was talking about more lobbying for laws to restrict pastured egg production, laws for cattle production, etc etc, It got me riled, Corporate America is doing thier utmost best to destroy American self suffeicieny in order to gain power and wealth.
I know, there isnt anything I can do, still makes me mad.
josh


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Well, my brother, the American corporate,free enterprise system has given us, over the last seventy years or so, the greatest prosperity that any people or nation has ever experienced in the entire history of the human race. In my lifetime, every single american has lived in greater luxury than did the crowned heads of Europe in my grandparents day.

And Corporate America won WW II, which launched this unprecedented era of affluence, as much as the brave men and women who fought it. It was our incredible industrial production that brought down facsim. It was the research and innovation of Corporate America that developed weapons that brought communism to its knees.

And believe me, Josh, if we are to survive the extreme environmental/energy challenges that will face us in this century, the solutions will come from Corporate America. Henry Ford asked FDR in 1942 "how many planes do you need to fight this war"? "250,000," Roosevelt answered. Ford and his fellow industrialists rolled 400,000 off their hastily rigged assembly lines.

Everything has a downside in this imperfect world, Josh. I just hope America hasn't grown so fat, lazy and complacent in all this luxury that we have forgotten the roots of our greatness - the same greedy corporate system that we love to villify gave it to us, and it can be dismantled much faster than it was built - and that may well be exactly what we deserve! :-)

Jack


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Ya know, Josh, you can't compete with corporate agriculture. You have to sell things they can't provide - like really FRESH produce and eggs, real home-smoked hams, organic veggies, vine-ripened tomatoes that don't taste like cardboard, fresh herbs for the gourmet cooks in suburbia, baby eggplants for the corporate exec who likes to grill on saturday by his swimming pool, exotic varieties for ethnic markets, etc etc. There's plenty of room for all those niche markets that WalMart or Cal-Pak can't touch. And best of all, the competition will be fair and equal - you'll be competing with people like Marla, Bob and me instead of Cal-Pak!

Rather than trying to compete with Corporate America in growing processing tomatoes, you're probably better off to develop one of those retail niche markets. Or better still, while you're still young enough, take that degree in biology and all that experience and energy and sell it to Cal-Pak or Conagra. Bring home your 80 grand and buy your tomatoes from Marla. :-) That's the path of least resistance with the greatest MATERIAL rewards - but that might not be rewarding for a free-spirited guy like you - in which case, you should retail your own production and bypass the ag industry entirely.

Your friend and Christian Brother,

Jack


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I was wondering how this post went from Peat Pots to the problems with corporate America.

Josh: Do you do any direct marketing of your produce? If you are growing so much, I would think it would be easy to supply a farm stand, farmers market booth or even a CSA. I would want to keep some of the retail mark up for myself and not let someone else get that. Just curious.

Jack: I don't share the same feelings you do about Walmart. I am sure at one time when Sam Walton was in charge, it was better. However, I rarely, if ever step foot in one. The only time I do is I can't find something ANYWHERE else. We have a small family owned grocery chain (7 stores) in different towns and the owners family is our friends. To say "Walmart" in their house is almost like a slap to the face. The deceptive marketing practices, forcing companies to change product size to meet their prices. Trust me, Walmart isn't the cheapest if you compare unit prices. Next time you go, check out detergent and find the per unit or per load price and compare it with other stores. In my area it is cheaper some place else. The walmart price per jug is cheaper, but you also get less.

The meat department is another disgrace. Yes it is cheap, but you get what you pay for. Their deceptive Thanksgiving Turkey prices too. I could go on for days, but I won't. We all can believe what we want and that is fair and I can understand that. I just wish people would take a step back and look at what they are supporting before they go shopping.

Our Chamber of Commerce ran some ads in the paper this Christmas Season. The headline read, Three businesses scheduled to close this year. The article went on to say, What 3 businesses did you think of? Go and spend $20 at that store to make sure it doesn't happen. Then in threw some very interesting data into the story. It really got people to think.

$800 for a bag of seed corn, WOW my wife would kill me. That is more than I have spend on all my seed for this whole year. I would ask around and see if you could buy it together with others and share. I am sure there is someone else in the same boat as you.

Until Later,
Jay


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Wow! this is a lot for one peat pot. We've gone back to plastic, for the peat pots don't hold up. Handling and transporting.

Josh and Jay, I'm in your corner, come out swinging. Sorry Jack. You didn't mention Walmarts treatment of their employees. Sam Walton early days,would look and see what his competitor are selling. That night he would drive to buy that or similair product. The next morning the item would be in his display window.

Josh, earlier, we disagreed on GMO's. Monsanto is a huge corporation. If they control the seed, they control our food. World domination.

Eric


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There's only so much you can say about peat pots, Jay:-)

I know a lot of people don't like WalMart, but nearly everyone I know loves it. It's not just cheaper prices. It's just a great store with a huge selection of merchandise. It's fun to shop there - and it's one-stop - everything from underwear to tv sets. The quality is lower, to match the price, that's for sure. We joke about "WalMart fall apart". But it still allows people to buy things, like bicycles for the kids, that they likely couldn't afford elsewhere. Sure, the bikes will fall apart in a year or two - BUT, Jr still has a shiny new bike under the Christmas tree. And they have a GREAT return policy - they replace faulty merchandise within a reasonable time with no questions asked.

WalMart has richly enhanced the quality of life in our little town. Everyone shops there - in fact, it's a social outing because you always see old friends and visit for awhile in the aisle. We, along with just about everyone we know in our neighborhood and church, shop there
exclusively. We buy almost everything we use at WalMart and have always been treated fairly and honestly.

And they have brought jobs too. Maybe they're not real high paid with lots of benefits, but the folks that work there seem pretty happy to me. I don't hear a lot of grumbling. Many have been there ever since the first WalMart opened here in the seventies.

It did, however destroy our local "Main Street" business - no more shoe store, jeweler or sporting goods store, etc - and a few of our upper crust people (The Methodists LOL) still hold resentment about that and drive 60 miles to shop elsewhere - and that's fine - they can afford the gas. As far as were concerned, good riddance! Few of those local merchants ever did anything for me or my family except rip us off. We don't get ripped off any more at WM - or at least we FEEL like we're being treated well, and that's good enough.

Jack


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Eric, that corn seed is from Syngenta Corp. Is that a subsidiary of Monsanto? I wouldn't be surprised.

In the first place, they can only control the seed, or rather TRY to control it, until their patent runs out and then it will be in seed packs at WalMart for 99 cents. After spending millions of R&D dollars on one of the most ambitious plant science projects of all time, surely they have a right to try to enforce the terms of their patent and charge high prices for a few years until it runs out.

The drug companies would not develop new medications without a period of patent protection to recoup their R&D investment before the generics are available everywhere at cheap prices. Syngenta (Monsanto?) isn't doing anything that any other inventor wouldn't do with a great innovation. They are simply operating under the patent laws that have been on the books for generations. Without that protection, precious little scientific research would take place.

We sign a contract that we won't save seed or sell it or otherwise distribute it. I wouldn't blame them a bit if they watched me with binoculars from the road and sued me if I violated the terms of the contract. That seems fair enough to me. What's to get upset about?

Be careful with that cannon. We have an annual Civil War re-enactment over in DeRitter, LA. We've been there several times - it's more about hot dogs and beer than history. The Confederates always win! :-)

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes


We sign a contract that we won't save seed or sell it or otherwise distribute it. I wouldn't blame them a bit if they watched me with binoculars from the road and sued me if I violated the terms of the contract. That seems fair enough to me. What's to get upset about?

Be careful with that cannon. We have an annual Civil War re-enactment over in DeRitter, LA. We've been there several times - it's more about hot dogs and beer than history. The Confederates always win! :-)


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Jack,

I'm just using Monsanto as an example. It maybe Sygenta. Bt corn or Roundup Ready Soy are examples.

I don't have a seed contract. What if the seed genes are spread by wind / pollen, rodents and birds, my neighbors boot tread or truck tread. If they find traces of there patented product on my property, then what. Do I pay a royalty, get sued. Doesn't seem fair. That's what to get upset about. If you come a visiting wipe your feet. :~)

The Cofederates aways win! Eating hotdogs and drinking beer? :~) Everyone knows the history.

bluebelly


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

I just read on another site, a fellow, Bill Shoemaker his email is wshoemaker@illinois.edu he is a professor that has worked with sweet corn for 25 years in the ag dept, he is neutral on bt corn, what he does say Jack that got me is through his studies is he sees nothing particulary wrong or dangerous about the bt corn, but that bt corn isnt all that the seed companies try to sell, yes it kills the earworm, but the earworm still ends up in the corn, you just end up with a bunch of dead earworms in the corn. He said first remember that the earworm is a caterpillar of a moth, and what we need to control is not the worm but that moth. We have to prevent the moth from laying thier eggs.
One of the most important ways of dealing with them is monitoring with pheremone traps. Do a search for Great Lakes IPM and they will have detailed info on traps and pheromone lures, and most importantly how to use them.If there are moths in the neighborhood the traps will catch them. If you dont catch any you dont need to worry about them,that is just how good the traps are. as you know Jack the further south you are the higher the infestation, you will need to double the traps that the Great Lakes IPM recomends, The traps dont reduce the population they just sample them, telling you how many of the pest are present, or if they are. The moths are very vulnerable to cold weather, a sudden cold spell knocks the population down. The pest build up, not on corn but cotton, thus the heavier populations in the south. But by monitoring for the moth will let you know when to spray, and then you spray for the moth, prevent them from laying eggs, the first moth you catch is when you start to spray,(I recomend Malathion as it is a good chemical pesticide for moths.)

Bill supervised a study on corn pollen and how far it carries. What he found is that the pollen does not carry very far. Corn pollen is large compared to other pollens. It tends to stay within a 50 foot zone.

The study went like this, the planted several rows of yellow corn, then surrounded the yellow corn with many rows of white corn. As we all know if yellow corn pollen pollinates white corn you get yellow corn, depending on how many silks are pollinated by yellow corn pollen, as each silk goes to only one kernel. The corn was left to pollinate openly, When they harvested what they found was the level of yellow corn dropped dramatically as the rows got further from the yellow corn. By the time you got to the 6 row, about 20 feet, the incidence of yellow corn was almost negligible.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

GREAT INFO, Josh! Thanks a million! I've read about those pheromone traps but never paid much attention. I'm going to order some immediately. A lot easier to spray for the moths than try to keep the soils saturated - and safer too.
With the shorter rows I can easily apply the chem overhead.

*************************

Eric -

Our local men have always drank some - they just hid it and did it in private and never in front of women and children. When I was a kid, back when church was the ONLY social venue there was and everybody came except a few "hermits", we had regular "dinner-on-the-ground" on church premises. It was a fun event with lots of food, real good bluegrass/gospel music with amateur musicians, loads of food (mostly unhealthy) and wonderful fellowship with neighbors and friends. The men always had "Double Run" (local colloquialism for corn liquor) hid back in the woods and sometimes a tub of iced beer if they had it. The women assumed they were going in and out of the woods to relieve themselves, but they always carried a coffee cup. :-) The preacher knew what was going on but said nothing. Us boys would hide near the stash and take a sip when nobody was around - and smoke dried horse manure in a pipe (It was milder and tasted better than that uncured tobacco leaf). There's zero tolerance for alcohol in any form in our church today - and, frankly, I can't find that in the Bible!

We're not far from the Louisiana line, where the re-enactment is, and that's always been wide open. Bars were open 24/7. That's a french/catholic area - different traditions and customs that our anglo/redneck culture. That's where we "ran away" to get married without our parents permission.

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Jack,

Sounds fun. Good food, good music, good friends. Smoking what? Horse manure. I've tried Gonja a few times, but that was years ago.

Alcohol (wine) was probably with every meal in biblical times. Every church seemes to have different interpretation of the meaning. Not literally.

Eric


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Just finished reading a bulletin from Purdue University on corn earworm control, and they had a list of of very effective herbicides : Mix a tank of Penncap-M with your choice of -Ambush-Pounce-Capture/Brigade-Baythroid-Larvin-Mustang Max-SpinTor-Warrior, the list is long because of the need to change periodicaly in order to prevent or slow resistance, all exceptSpinTor and Larvin are Pyrethroids. By mixing with Penncap-M (I never have used this myself, Im going to have to talk to my co-op rep) you will not only kill the adult moths, but any larvae that might have slipped through.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

What chemicals can be applied without having the applicator licensing? I'm considering planting some corn, and would like to have some corn without worms, if possible.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Josh,

I had to look up earworm. I thought you were talking about earwigs. Nope. I don't think I have ever seen a earworm on my corn. We do have earwigs. They hang out under decaying leaves and wood. The biggest problem we have with corn is not enough heat units.

Eric


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Marla you could use Malathion, or Sevin, or Carbaryl, or Permethrin, or bifentgrin. Cyfluthrin, or cyhalothrin, (these are the active ingredients, you will have to look on the bottles ingredients to find them) esfenvalerate is another.

Eric, is it Washington State you live in ? if so you wouldnt have earworms, as they have never been there, nor could they stand the enviroment.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Josh, Yes, Washington State. Hey! what are you saying about my environment. hehe :~)

Eric


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

How about weed control, non-licensed?

I know I'm picking you guys brains. But thanks ahead of time.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Eric, only that you are one lucky son of a gun :0)
So far North, yet still a zone 8, some guys have all the luck !

Marla what I do is use glyphosphate, any generic brand works fine, Round Up is to pricey, mix the glyphosphate with ammonium sulfate for best results. Also mix in some Post, to make a solid kill, wait a week and disc the soil, then after planting, if transplants get you a good Pre Emergent, like Devrinol, now Pre Emergents are a pretty safe herbicide, as they work on a hormonal level, verses a chemical. They prevent germination, they work for up to 6 months, thats why with a seeded crop you have to wait untill the crop is up and established, corn for example needs to be at least the 2 leaf stage, then you spray your pre emergent over the top, then cultivate once, watering it in makes it beeter, if you cant itll hold till it rains.
hope that helps
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

mfm,

You don't need a license for mulch, cardboard or plastic.

I'm a small scale organic gardener /farmer. No pesticides
or herbicides. I have used BT, but no bt seed.

Eric


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

.....luck

more like blood, sweat and tears.

Eric


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Eric, you should have labelled this as "Chat Thread". Good idea - but we'll probably talk business here and BS on the business threads! LOL

************************

Marla, earworm sprays:

Commercial Bifenthrin- Capture, Brigade (25%) - the only one we use that requires a license.

10% Permethrin - no license
55% Malathion - " "
Cabaryl - Sevin - " "

Around here you practically have to spray daily from the times the silk appears until it turns brown to get 90% worm-free corn. I fought them for years in my home garden with Sevin, often dusting daily, and still had worms. But I kept it down to one an ear. Around here, you'll have several per ear without insecticide. You don't see much sweet corn in organic booths at farmers markets in SE Texas.

Nearly all commercial corn is now Attribute-protected (GMO). I'll be spraying like crazy this year because we don't have Attribute seed - and I'm still gonna have plenty of worms! The small $200 bags were unavailable and the committee that runs our project wouldn't fork over $800 for the big bag. It's gonna be a rough year for our corn!

A few worms would be okay if it weren't for the GM corn. There aren't any worms in commercial sweet corn anymore and people, especially younger folks, just aren't used to it nowadays. They're "spoiled". :-) With the older people, no problem - they just break-off the end and throw it in the pot.

**********************

Josh - the "heliothis" moth traps at IPM and Gemplers are 85 bucks each! Whew! The lures that go in them are cheap, though. I talked to our tech advisor last night and he said
that the moths are a sure thing when the first silk shows -trap or no trap. It's either Attribute seed or spray daily! I'm tempted to go ahead and buy the $800 bag out of my own pocket - but can't get that past my wife:-).

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Jack: From what Ive read it may be just as well for you to spray and not worry about monitoring, (spray for the moths first, then the caterpillars) unlike me, Im in the northern range of the pest, and the closest cotton field is 800 miles away. Seeings how cotton is the number one host plant and corn is second, and heat is their favored enviroment, man your just in the thick of it, you need to move north, better yet lets all move next doors to Eric LOL :0)
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Eric, I can't classify our farm as a small time operation, but not a big guy either. We have about 9+ acres that can be used. Up until this year, we were using a rental tractor to till, once or twice, and a rear-tiller (18") tiller to work 2-3 acres. This last year we bought a OLD tractor (1949 Massey Harris 44G) and disc, hoping that the tractor will be ready to help this season.

We are starting out using a 5.5 acre plot, holding the rest for overflow of seeds. This field has been soybeans for the last 2 years with corn the year before. I'm hoping that a good discing with take care of most of the debris left from the beans, without needing to 'plow' it.

I'm still deciding what to plant where, and how much.

We have a farmers market in Lafayette, that can handle well over $100,000 of sales divided between the 20-30 vendors. Of course, most of the vendors don't have the amount of land that I have available, but they still have some of those $$s. Unfortunately this market will NOT pay more for organic produce. I try to stay as close as possible, but not possible with this number of acres and our energy levels. Just not enough compost available in this area, some but not enough.

Our goal is to replace hubby's income from construction with veggie farming. We have about 4-5 years before he thinks about retirment (Social Security only). This is our "crunch time" to make as much as possible, and cut bills as much as possible.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Eric, even with plastic mulch you still have to use SOME herbicides under the plastic. Weeds come-up in the holes where the plants are and stunt or choke-out the plant. Some weeds, like purple nutsedge, poke right through the plastic. And it's hard to run a cultivator through the the walkways without constantly picking up the buried edge of the plastic. I used to think plastic mulch eliminated weed problems but I have recently learned better. It's just one weapon in a constant battle. The label on my Devrinol has full instructions for use with plastic mulch.

Leaf/hay/straw mulch, believe me, is nothing but a big mess and actally aggravates weed problems Been there done that! Cardboard? How many guys would you have to hire to cut and fit the cardboard - not to mention clean it all up? And where would you get the cardboard? They recycle all that nowadays. It would be more expensive and even more labor-intensive than constant cultivation. What possible practical reason would Marla have to do that when her market doesn't appreciate organic produce?

You need to get at least a 50% premium for organic veggies because of the higher production costs. That means you must market in certain kinds of areas - upscale, well-educated, on the "liberal" side - suburbia and affluent urban neighborhoods. In New York City, organic farmers get $6/doz for organic eggs! Marla and I don't have access to those markets. I doubt if Josh does either. I think Seattle might be a good market for that - very progressive, liberal-thinking area - just like here in Woodville, TX LOLLOL!

Cardboard, newspapers, etc is okay for a 20X20 backyard garden, but obviously just a little impractical for Marla's 9 acres, or my 3 acres and certainly for Josh's 160 acres! We'd be better off to forget the vegetables and eat the weeds!

:-) Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

I haven't been brave enough to try the dandylions or the other weeds yet. There is a company that is experimented with using stuff like weeds for airplane fuel. I'm hoping that they would be willing to come and get my 'foxtail'. One of the owners is one of my regular customers.

Josh and I could go to one market that is more 'organic' movitated. But it is about 100 miles from me, one way, and probably that or more from Josh. Not worth the extra mileage expense.

I tried the organic way when I first started with 1/4 acre. That 1/4 acre was out-grown within the 1st year.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

I got on an organic kick back in the 80's, Marla. I just had a 2000 sq ft home garden back then. I was totally dedicated and have never worked so hard in my life for so little reward! I bought the whole thing, hook line and sinker - compost and everything! One year I spent every spare hour working on that compost - you wouldn't believe how hard I worked - and when I got all done I had enough compost to adequately fertilize 100 sq ft! And, to add insult to injury, even that leached out of my loose, sandy soil after the first couple big rains!

In the early nineties I decided it just wasn't worth it. "If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em." But, of course, like Josh has pointed-out, it's very difficult here in the deep south. the organic articles and books I was reading all came from places like New Hamshire and Oregon. Their solutions just don't work very well in these southern areas, but up where Eric lives, or even where you and Josh are, I would think organic would be a lot more realistic.

There are some organic growers in the affluent suburbs north of Houston. Their prices are HIGH! But the customers want it and they provide it. It's a different business than I'm in. Their produce always looks bad with insect damage - ugly - which won't fly in our unsophisticated market.

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

I do understand. I have also lived in FL for a few years and understand the BIG bugs you'all have. I have seen some of the plants that we have here that grow 2-3 ft with winter protection and down there they were as tall as house roofs. I never thought that they were the small plant/tree.


 o
RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Welllllllllll The organic thing is alive and well over in Bloomington, those college folks are all over it like ticks on a hound. Thats the extent of folks willing to buy organics, the college folks, a population of about 10,000. The folks east of Bloomington, and Brown County have that hemmed up, and they do pretty good with the organic thing. Then again up in those hills they aint surrounded by huge grain farms where they mono crop corn and soybeans, spraying everything in the world. I tried organic farming when I first started. As Im sure Marla can attest, where Im at is a transition zone, southern weather from KY blows in from the south Lake Michigan weather from the North, makes predicting the weather here pretty tricky. The first year I tried organics was 1999, I saw sweet corn in Bloomington sell for $8 a dozen, in 1999, it was organic, from Brown County, I wanted in on that. Well Spring was a wash, as it is 3 years out of 5. Didnt get the corn in till almost July, right smack dab in the middle of corn earworm season, I planted 2 acres, I got an awesome crop, 2-4 ears on a 90 percent stand, just awesome. 99 % of the crop had 2 or more worms in it, the pigs ate the worst. No one in Bloomington would touch it, snobs. Took it to Spencer, a down home country town. They bought it, everybit of it, country folks. But not for $8 a dozen, no, not even $4, no, I got 15 cents an ear. It was good corn, the wife kids and I loved it, the wife was eating it raw out of the back of the truck, I think that helped sell some of it. It was just the tips that was bad, just snap them off. But Jack is right, the only folks that will buy that kinda corn is true blue down home country folk, and they will only pay as much as Walmart prices, and thats if its purty, other wise 15 cents an ear. Another year I gave it a shot again in 2000, Beatles, and leaf miners, tore through 3 acres of greenbeans, I was spraying insecticidal soap, blasting them with the sprayers, spraying pyrethrums etc. Lost 80 percent of the crop. And dont even get me started on weeds. Nothing like picking greenbeans through pigweed. Johnson grass knee high in the corn, the crop is puny and thin. Oh use mulch, hay (oh yeah hay, do folks know just how much hay isnt cut until its full of seed, lets just seed the crops to grass, and old farmers trick here to reseed a pasture is to feed hay there) lets put straw down, mulch is only good for clogging up the disc, or cultivator, and encouraging mice and voles to eat your crops, and to harbor slugs and snails. You can have my herbicide when you pry it from my cold dead hands. Im not farming for a hobby, Im not living on a farm for the quaint lifestyle alone, this is my livlihood. My granparents said the number one thing they hated more than anything about farming in the 40s was the weeds, herbicides were not redily available, in fact my dad joined the army in 67 to just get away from the hoe. These people regularly grew up to 20 acres of feed for stock and vegetables for the pantry, yeah you can grow crops without herbicide, they did. But the corn only got maybe 50 bushels to the acre, I get feed corn on B quality soils, thats good soil but sandy riverbottom, I get 120 bushels to the acre, neighbors who have B+ soils, sandy loam to loam get 180-200 bushels to the acre. Also my dad told me to keep the weeds controlled, not eradicated, they just tolerated some weeds, which is part of the reason for 50 bushel corn, but to keep control, they all spent 10 hours a day in the field, each person in the family was assigned 1 to 2 acres, they were required to control the weeds on, they did this 6 days a week. I grow 8- 10 acres of vegetables, 40 + acres of feed, 8-10 acres of sweet corn. I dont have the man power, and if I tolerated 50 bushel feed corn, Id have to grow another 40 acres, thats not real good for the enviroment, for right now that 40 acres is a hay field, reducing erosion.
Thats another thing, here in Southern IN a lot of our ground is rolling, falling in elevation to 1 of 6 rivers. All the way into the 80s we had severe soil erosion, the ground here is permanetly scarred with gullies. But in the 80s no till cropping was introduced. It relies on herbicides to kill the existing vegetation, then a ripper plow, lightly scours the soil in the rows, just the rows. Then the planter plants through the mulch, the dead plant material is left on the surface. Our soil erosion has been reduced 85 %. Could not be done without herbicides. As humans everything we do is going to affect the enviroment in some fashion, it comes down to choices and trade offs. We have a river called White River, my grandfather said it was named that because even when he was a boy it flowed clear, clean, with a gravel bottom. That river now is brown, with a muddy bottom, due to 100 years of severe soil erosion. Its now starting to slightly clear, I remember as a boy it was worse than now. Its starting to clear due to herbicides, and no till, reducing erosion by 85 %.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

"Do you want to eat something that a bug wouldn't eat?" That's what I tell my customers if I have some wormy corn. Then I show them how to snap that end out, or to open the ear, outside of course, and shake that little critter out and STOMP on it. I suggest that the kids enjoy STOMPING on the critter. I know my grandkids do.

Josh, I can definitely believe it out of Bloomington, that was the impression when I visited last April.

I'm also in the middle of mono-crop farms. We are the only farm less than 60 acres within 1-2 miles. All the other little family farms have been bought up between 2 farmers.

I'm very grateful that I inherited the land that I did. It is slightly sloping down to a 'crick', with good loam. The ground is getting better each year that we grow anything except for corn/beans. This land has been owned by my family since 1898. My ancestors came from Ireland and appreciated land.


 o
RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Josh, you should see what clear-cut logging has done to our creeks! When I was a kid, they ran clear and full of fish. Now they're just torrents of mud when it rains. But, tree farming is just like any other crop - plant it and harvest it. The tree huggers don't understand that there's nothing special about woodlands - it's just another crop. it just takes 30 years longer to harvest than cotton.

As for organic - my grandparents rotated the kitchen garden between three hog pens. Each year, hogs were in one, the garden was in another and one was left fallow. The following year, Pa-Pa put the hogs where the garden had been and they ate everything - insect larvae, weed seeds, nothing left but stinky mud full of hog s... which also fertilized the plot. And he planted the garden in the fallow pen, etc etc.

It was 100% organic - by economic necessity. It produced enough vegetables for the table, but the hog poop really din't provide sufficient nutrient for good yields. The corn was always sort of yellowish and kinda spindly and squash leaves were small with fewer squash than we get now. My chemically-fertilized vegetables are 100 times better looking and higher yielding than any of his ever were - but they may not taste as good, being forced with nitrogen, and maybe not as healthy either. But who cares - that's what spices and vitamin pills are for! :-)

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

but Jack, I don't take vitamins. I do like my spices.

Eric


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Thats one thing that I can say, I dont take vitamins, But I use very little chemical fertiliser, what little I use is for side dressing newly planted crops, it seems to help seedlings get a better start, and helps transplants with shock, I mostly use compost. Thats the main reason I have livestock for, portable fertilizer machines. They also keep the fields mowed. We produce tons of compost. With tons of manure. Makes tasty veggies and healthy. I love transforming worn out, dull grey or red soils, it gives a satisfaction thats hard to put into words, to watch lifeless soil come back to life, from the first earthworms found in the freshly laid compost, the soil soon starts to darken, as you work the compost in. The smell of moist earth, live earth with that sweet tang. I think Im getting itchy for spring.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

When I was your age, I didn't get turned-on by smelling rotted animal feces and dirt, Bro Josh! LOL Just kidding.

We would use compost if we had a source for manure - poultry farm, dairy - but nuthin' like that here. Just pasture patties and urine-soaked hay (full of weed seed) around feeder rings. And, of course, a big front end loader and a dump truck (not one of these mickey mouse little tractor loaders). A small dozer is needed too, to pile it in windrows and turn it. Figuring labor and machinery costs, it's hard for me to see how it would be cheaper than 13-13-13! Better quality products maybe, there's a valid case for that, but surely not cheaper - even if the manure is free. I have heard that the commercial compost producers - there's a big one over in Vinton, LA, next to Delta Downs Race Track - add chemical nitrogen and bacteria cultures to acccelerate decomposition. And that can't be cheap either!

An organic grower I know near Houston buys all his compost from that LA source - he also buys fish emulsion liquid fertilizer (something like 4-2-3) at $2200/55 gal drum. I can't understand how organic source of nutrients would be cost effective unless you get real high yuppie prices in places like Bloomington. But apparently it is - I know you don't do it for philosophical reasons. Eric maybe, but not you - and SURELY not Marla! :-)

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Bro. Jack, Your right, if I did not make money off the livestock it wouldnt pencil out, but the cattle turn a profit, small profit but a profit. I charge the cattle operation (on paper for taxes) for manure management , then (on paper) I sell the manure to the vegetable operation, then I take advantage of the tax benefits. Thats the beauty of having a tax preparer, they show you all these tax things. Then the NRCS helped pay for the pad that the feed area sits on, which makes it possible for me to scrape and pile the manure without rutting up and digging up the field. They also pay an incentive to use it, and for rotational grazing. So for me its a way beneficial situation. So I get superior fertilizr at a way more cost effective price, than anything else.
josh


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

I don't get the extra prices, you're right. But when I get our manure usually it's been outside of the stalls for a few weeks/months. The guy only has 10-12 horses and the 'stuff' is from the stalls, on concrete. So when the stuff comes in it usually just gets piled. When I finally get around to using, most of it is really lump free. If I run across a lump, it get tossed back into the pile. Most of the time, we don't get the bobcat to do much with the stuff except piling it up. Wheelbarrows are used more often. That's one of the reason I try to have the piles put on the corners of the plots, not as far to push that darn barrow.

I need to look into getting some 12-12-12 or equivalent from the co=op instead of buying the bags from Rural King. I would think it would be cheaper, even if they charge a delivery charge. Right now, the only reason that I would stay with the bags is that I can buy what money I have, whether 1 bag or more.


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

NCRS? Is that your coop? We don't have a farm coop here - wish we did. There's no farms except pine plantations.

J


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Jack, Take a look at the link below

Here is a link that might be useful: NRC


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

Marla, I just checked The Monte site. All cardboard containers. We are looking for the stackable plastic, single layer tomato crates that we can use over and over. They fold up when empty - what WalMart uses.

Jack


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RE: Peat Pots for Tomatoes

They have plastic lugs also, I have out the numbers on the "late tomato" thread. Unfortunately those fold down sided ones I haven't found. Take that back, a few years a friend of mine found some in a office supply store, but they are not very strong. These lugs that I'm talking about don't have those kind of sides, but they do stack by putting them one way, and if you turn them around they nest together. I have put well over 30# in one without any problems.


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