http://www.rogersadvantage.com/dealers/default.asp

siegers seeds has it. minimum order is 100K seeds that cost $544.

ditto for RUPP seeds, they have a bicolor from syngenta
BC0805- 100k seeds @$4.95 per 1000. This works out to something like a 50 lb bag, or ~$10.00/lb.

The BC0805 got good ratings for taste&texture in trials(see link below.)

If anyone knows of alternate sources, especially smaller minimums, I'd be interested. They have a fairly detailed grower agreement you must sign, which says you must agree to not plant back-to-back, must till under residue shortly after harvest, must scout the field for resistant caterpillars, and let them know of any resistant noticed.

It appears they are being cautious about developing resistance to the bt since the pests will be constantly exposed to it. Of course, many organic growers use bt on a constant basis already, so there's not much difference really, unless you are simply a purist against biotech, or fear the bt for some reason.

I'm not sure the $5/lb premium per 1000 seeds would be competitive against the labor of hand application of bt.
One of my neighbors has had good success using bt dust sprinkled on corn silk and tassle. On first crop corn, he had few worms, but second crop had more pressure

$500 sounds like a lot to pay,but works out to 1/2 cent/seed. With freezer storage, I would expect you could get good germination through 2 seasons, maybe more.

Here is a link that might be useful: OSU 2004 corn trials

I am not sure about the current laws, but originally when Bt seed was developed for sweet corn, you could only get large quantities because the buffer zone was huge, and they didn't want it to be in home type gardens where it could cross pollinate easily.
Ann

PLEASE do your research quite well before considering any biotech seed. Talk to growers and rely on INDEPENDENT studies and data. This seed is not all its cracked up to be...in fact, it's much much worse. I know some random internet poster isn't going to convince anyone, but please look at www.ucsusa.org, or www.biotech-info.net, and do some google searches, talk to growers and more importantly BUYERS. No one wants this crap anyways. It'll cost you much more in the long run.

Just don't forget that there's a big difference between applying Bt and engineering it into every cell of the plant. In animal feeding studies the animals have adverse reactions to the bt potatoes and corn that they don't have with potatoes and corn with Bt sprayed on them. Here's another info site
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/isisnews/sis21.php

also check out http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/home.cfm

Wal Mart sells Bt corn in their fresh produce department.

This post was edited by atuaseva on Sat, Jun 1, 13 at 19:31

You do know that planting any GMO seed without signing a contract is illegal and could get you into serious trouble. You probably shouldn't have mentioned such on a public forum and anyone growing for market who does this is taking the chance of losing their farm and several hundred thousands of dollars..

It's shocking to me that a market gardener would even consider growing bt corn. There are so many known negatives, not the least of is damage to honeybees. And we don't have conclusive studies yet to say exactly what the engineered toxin is doing to the human digestive system. If you were honest with your market customers as to the type of corn you were growing, no one would buy any from you.

We have several large sweet corn growers within 50 miles of us, and they sell it very very well. Customers don't care, even when they are told.

I've heard that it's not the bt that's killing off the honeybees, but all the pesticides that are used on other crops.

Bees have very little interaction with corn. Corn is a grass and is pollinated by wind and not insects. Corn pollen is actually very nutritionally poor for bees, and they only collect it when there is nothing else better available. There is no nectar collected from corn although it has been reported that they will collect honeydew (where a plant has been injured and seeps sap) but it's a very small amount. That being said, BT corn probably has little to no effect on bees and their problems. Neonics, with out going into too much detail, accomplish much the same role as BT modified corn. It's taken up into the plant and stays in the plant's system killing insects when they feed on the plant. Same effect, different method of introducing it into the plant. The main problem with Neonics and bees seems to be at planting time. Corn seed it treated with the insecticide by the manufacturer. When the seed is transported and handled some of that coating comes off. When the seed is planted some of that lost coating can become airborne and land on forage plants in bloom. Bees go to the forage plant, picks up a dose of insecticide and returns to the hive. Then you get a bee kill. The exact same thing happens with all other insecticides. Back in the good old days, Pyrethroids were heavily applied to crops several times during the season. With each application there was a chance to have an accidental kill. From where I sit I would much rather have one application at planting than three or four during the year.

From what I have read (and I have been following CCD quite closely) there is no simple answer. We have all kinds of problems with our bees but no one can seem to point out one and say it's a smoking gun. We have mites (and the products that beekeepers use to control them), Nosema, several fairly new viruses, weather problems, insecticides, cultural changes (something like 1/2 of all managed hives are sent every year to California to pollinate almonds), Small Hive Beatles, a shrinking genetic base in the bee population and a dozen other problems that stress your bees. Bees are pretty good at adapting but throw enough problems at them there is going to be problems. Treat cattle like this and we would all be vegetarians.

I do not want to lessen the concerns that people have about GMO products. There is a lot of science out there (some good and some bad) that is all over the map. I understand the hesitancy of some people to use GMO product but I do not hold their view. All these products have been tested and approved by the government (although I sometimes am a little leery of believing what the government says). If I can plant corn that has good flavor, holds well, looks good and I do not have to spray every couple of weeks to get a crop I am all in favor of it. Now, I'll get down from my soapbox, put on my asbestos underwear and brace.

Tom

Tom, you always say it well. I seem to think it, but you get it down in writing.

With GMO, around here some people are questioning it, the same ones that want 'organic' food. They are not the majority tho. I sit in the middle of corn and bean fields, none are non-GMO, mainly because there are no non-GMO field seed available and even if you did find some, you couldn't get a buffer big enough to keep your GMO-free. Sorry, it's now life.

Bees certainly do have contact with corn! And while it is true that it is at planting time that the documented immediate bee die offs occur, it is also true that neonics, bt, and other pesticides have been implicated in hives failure to thrive. The especial problem with neonics and bt corn is that the toxin is in every single cell throughout the life of the plant. That has a different effect on beneficial insects than an occasional application of bt when needed. I agree that CCD has no simple answer and the corn issue is only one layer of the problem, just as bees are only one layer of the problem with bt corn, just the one that seems to be on everyone's mind right now.

I do not have a blanket objection to genetic engineering. I love the science! But chemical companies don't want to feed the world, they want to make money irregardless of the effect on mankind and our environment. Take Monsanto for example: Monsanto crops are designed to use vast amounts of glyphosate. It wasn't enough that we all used Roundup to spot spray our tansy and clean up our fencerows, now we are literally coating the earth in it! So much so that they have to use some of their vast amounts of lobbying money to get the government to change the "safe" levels!

Oh, sorry, I digress on a Monsanto rant! I really need to get out and get 250 more cucumbers planted. I was just floored that a market gardner would consider bt corn. All the other issues aside, the customers at my market would not buy it if they knew it was ge, no matter how pristine or cheap it was. And, like (I think it was) Marla recently said here, "If a worm won't eat it, neither will I" ! And ofcourse at some point I realized that this thread was started 8 years ago! Talk about the horse and the barn door!

Here is a link that might be useful: EPA document proposing to up the levels of glyphosate in food.

BT is used in beekeeping to kill wax moths.

Bt protects the corn silk from worms, and bees are not needed for pollination. Sure a bee MIGHT land on the corn silk, but the Bt is not designed to kill anything except sucking insects such as worms. Even Bt will not protect the entire ear of corn, but it will help protect it.

So many people don't understand the ENTIRE background on these pesticides, which Bt falls into. Keeping ALL chemicals, whether natural or man-made, MUST be carefully used ONLY when NECESSARY. Unfortunately for those farmers that have HUGE fields, aren't able to walk their fields and spot treat only where needed.

BT which is a short for Bacillus Therengiensis is a naturally occuring soil bacteria that manufactures a toxin when ingested by moth and butterfly caterpillars. It does not kill adult insects and would not be toxic to bees. It is grown in culture and usually it is sorbed to diamotacious earth and applied as a dust. It also is available as a wetable powder that is diluted with water. There has been much research on the toxin that it produces when ingested by a caterpillar. Monsanto has taken the toxin producing gene and spliced into corn cells, so when critters like the european corn borer feed on the corn they are poisioned. BT can be dusted or sprayed on to corn, but the corn borer is usually deep in the whorl or ear so external application is not very effective.