For years I attended up to 5 different area "Farmers Mark-ets" per week. All required you to sell what you grew. It became quite disgusting, even though hillarious, to see what some growers would admit to growing. I would question giving some of this to my animals. Some vendor's personal hygene/market appeal matched their home grown produce. I be-
lieve in individual and personal rights,,, so did not stick my nose into their business. I am glad I did'nt lol. WE are
a rural community. They were all ready given hints by mgmt.
and others. This was a small minority of the growers, others
were cleaned up but appeared to believe the most unorthodox
appearing vegetables was what our area buyers needed and came to look at. A few of the market Managers made me believe I was in bootcamp again-giving out orders in front of market buyers-market politic's including pricing was ram-
pant.

I am somewhat of an individualist and I strongly believe in the free market system. Even though the above marketing ex- amples were a minority it took its toll on all of us. I still usually sold out, but my association with the market did not express my idea of marketing. Some after market ca- sual conversations became personally embarassing. So, as an
individualist I started selling at my own farm stands with
my own quality control/public appearance measures over ruled only by my customers and BIG BROTHER. I now purchase
a large amount of produce (for a small seller-under $30,000
a year in sales) from two amish produce auctions. This is not a breeze in itself-nor is it cheap as some think. I go to auctions 3 times a week-140 miles round trip. I rent 16 ft. box trucks one third of the time. I am very prudent in
purchasing at the auction, I only bid on labled #1 produce.
It is a very, very long hard labor day. Before sunup-work, water, weed in my own 2 to 5 acre patch. Quickly restock my
2 farmstands, grab a chunk of bread & cheddar & beercase &
jump in the truck for a mobile breakfast. Get to the auction, inspect hundred's of box's, adjust my hearing aids to the noise level and bid like hell. Now you sweat and load
boxes like a wharf worker, drop a check at the window, worry
that you don't have everything for the $1,243.00 check, ram
through the auction barn one more time-find a peck box you missed and then eat greenbeans for 70 miles. Restock the stands in case of an evening rush-make a trip to the compost
pile with todays profits that did'nt sell and then unload the truck at the make believe dock-good on your knees. Re-
sort the produce-some to the cooler-some to A/C storage-some of the #1 directly to the brush pile.. Done yet? Nope,
run to the patch and pick beans, cukes, tomatoes, zukes, weeds, s.squash, melons, mesquitetos, or whatever you would like to pick until 1 hr. after dark. After 10pm. take the
rental truck back before you get zapped double.

Why do I buy to resell? There is never enough people and time under my authority or anyones to grow every root or fruit throughout the entire season to have the display and
selection desired by todays demanding public. "Service and Satisfaction in one bag" Thanks All, tonytiller

tonytiller, your post sounds like what I used to do, except for renting the truck (I owned a 12' cargo van).

I have thought about giving up my farmers market and starting a farm stand. But I don't think there is enough traffic on my road.

I only visit my Amish auctions 1-2 times per week and don't spend as much as you do. My auction's #2 produce is usually as good as the #1, just a tiny bit less perfect. Of course, I do have to know the grower that I am purchasing from.

No reselling of any type allowed at our markets. Strictly producers only, which I appreciate.

To those of you that are allowed to re-sell - do your customers know / care that the product you are selling is not your own? I worked a market once where reselling was allowed, and some vendors led customers to believe that they grew everything they offered when they clearly did not. Others sold crops that just don't grow here, or were labeled Kentucky Tomatoes, or Georgia Peaches.

We have some vendors that LIE to their customers and claim everything. But I tell my customers where they are grown. Alot of my customers don't really care about where the produce is grown, as long as it's local (within 50-100 miles) and not from a grocery store. They care about the quanlity and my knowledge in picking out GOOD produce for them. They know that I don't grow everything and have told me that they appreciate me finding other farmers that grow good stuff. We are supposed to label everything that is not grown by the vendor themselves, but other vendors just call their produce, suchandsuch county produce which allows them alot of leeway. My customers know that I will tell them who grew the produce and where to find the farmer IF they decide to visit the grower. Of course, I mention that the Amish growers are rather private and to respect them.

Marla , Good luck telling em were I live LOL :0), hes out past that bent poplar, right by jacks creek, left by the ole barn hehehe
Dag blasted, the state came in this year and took away our rural route numbers and gave us real addresses. Did I even spell that right ?

You all make me appreciate selling wholesale more, retail sounds like more work. hmmmm
josh

There are many issues and opinions in providing produce to the public. Ultimately your customer base has the finale say. There are more variants of people than variants of veg-
etables. I have people stop by that all but demand a $3.00/ 25lb. box of draining out the bottom rotting tomatoes, they call canning tomatoes. After politely explaining to them that I have never seen that type of tomato reccomended in my copy of Kerr or Betty Crocker and that I do'nt stock'em,
they slowly retreat. I slowly take a breath, praying that they don't catch a glimpes of em in the brush pile down by the tree line. This is a niche market and there are sellers providing this product. I am not providing this product. I cannot afford to have a box of draining tomatoes lying around as I would start losing my customer base, mainly blue
collar working families. There are others in this area that cater to this niche and do a good job of it. This market niche would not buy from me if I lowered my #1s by 50%. This
fruit is referred to by the auctioner as "Work'em Up-When You Get Home". It all gets sold, mainly to anxious/willing end user bidders out bidding each other when they could do better buying quality. Decide what niche fits you and go for it-no need smelling the competition or even pricing the
competition. I really have no time for it but I do listen to
my customer base. thanks all tonytiller

Isnt it dangerous eating rotting tomatoes, I do feed em to my chickens, but overly ripe tomatoes to me could possibly lead to food poisoning couldnt it ? Im with you all, if I wouldnt eat it, I aint going to let no one have it, I couldnt live with myself if someone gotsick or worse from some food I sold or gave away.
josh

There is a really nice farmers market in Athens Oh. that I visit when I'm down that way. My daughter worked for an organic gardener for a couple of years and the organizers for the market used to visit the farms that participated in the market to assure that their practices were up to standards. I feel that some of the questionable practices found at markets is what's going to bring on more government overseeing of the sale of produce at farmers markets. For instance there is a problem for the Amish produce growers, because they use horses in their fields. Some authorities feel that the horses may contaminate the produce. This is just one problem that's facing the small farmer. There are many considerations by the FDA to assure National food safety standards. I have just started checking into this as a result of a conversation with a friend of mine who has been supplying a grocery chain in our area. They put so many restrictions on him that he can't comply with their requirements so he will not supply them this year. The FDA has announced its intentions to publish a proposed rule for produce safety by October, 2010.
You might want to keep your eye on this one.

Luke

I just tell my customers that the Board of Health strongly recommends NOT to sell produce like that. Also "I" WOULD not can them either, and I don't sell anything that I would not eat. There is a Board of Health booklet on what is allowed and what isn't. Did you know that green onions with the tops cut off are not allow, due to bateria and stuff that can get into the cut off end. Even green beans that are snapped out are not recommend for use/sale.

Green onions was the salmonella problem a few years back that helped close down CHI CHI's restaurants. I'm just saying that the FDA is now responsible for national food standards. I'm still in the process of investigating this, but it looks to me as if the very large producers in Calif. are in favor of restrictions that will force the small producers out of business. I'm sure that the "Buy Local" campaign is taking a toll on their business. I am certainly
not an alarmist and I hate the political hoaxes that go on, but what I can tell, at this point, is that this is something that could potentially be a big problem to farmers markets in the future. I don't know, but I think that we should be aware of what's going on. Anyone have any info on this?

Luke

It is very different in my area. We have private vendors who never sell at the "official" farmers market. They sell whenever, wherever, and almost none of them raise the crops themselves. Most of the vendors at the market also resell goods. I do not.

In this part of the woods, I agree that "Farmers Markets" need to be for growers only and no reselling. The paranoia between growers is already so thick on market days you could float an egg on it. Here you are more likely to be accused of reselling when you bring in perfect vegetables. How could they possibly be grown by you? I have seen equally bad produce marketed by grower/sellers and grower/reselling-sellers. No one holds the title on this-produce is perishable and it rots period. Selling 2 to 3 days a week @ 5hrs. a day tempts some cash-straped growers to extend the useful life expectancy out of dead cells. Keeping your sales volume as high as possible, being ruth- less when it comes to culling, with out guilt feelings of losing money will keep your customers coming back whether you grew or bought what your selling. If you have a weak stomach culling and losing produce you better appoint some- one else to do this chore. Someone that can't count money. You will need to make money on quality produce.

thanks all -- tonytiller

We throw away ALOT of produce, this next year, we have a friend that will take all the culled produce for his pigs. He is a mechanic and has helped out ALOT with the tractors. It's amazing how much you have to cull out to be sure to have ONLY high quality produce. We were taking the culls 'out back' far, far away from the garden for the wildlife to eat. Maybe that's way we don't have alot of wildlife damage, they're too full to walk that far.

MyFamilyFarm-Hi
I always tell people that ask about my profit that its in the produce that I can sell fast enough keeping it from the compost pile. Whether its produce I grow myself or pro-duce I buy its costing me time and money-lots of it. Both types are almost equal liability's up to the time of sale. Rules may put us all out of business, but there will always be more rotten tomatoes then there will be rules and there will be people buying them. I won't be selling them. There are many times more drug laws now than 50 years ago, but drugs are now available in every small town in America.. When they are hungry people buy what they can afford or steal better quality. I don,t lose to much produce to professional thieves-perishable product isn't on their list.

Now back to my original intent. With your experience at the
amish auctions along with your own growing assets a farm- stand for you will probably be on the way. The produce auc-
tion know-how is no small accomplishment and shouldn't be wasted. I don't know of anyone I would give my checkbook to
to make a trip to the auction for me. You can't be faint at heart when it comes to spending your hard earned money,
but you still need to be prudent, very quick thinking, con-
fident in your reselling ability and able to laugh at your mistakes and move on. I have two farm stands. One 10 feet from my patch and the road and one downtown(7 miles) on the
courthouse square in a store front and sidewalk. Both are open 7 days a week. The patch one is self-serve(rethinking this year). The vegetable patch is just inside the village limits,,pop. 625. The city location has a pop. of 10,000. The patch stand sells 60% of total. You may be able to establish your own customer base and someday leave the farmer's markets and spend time in your patch. I may be putting a portable stand out at another location this year You may need an auxilary location this year. As you know a good display of fresh produce is the attractant. I too will buy some #2 produce as some of the growers are very humble in their grading. First time buyers should stay with #1. I need your tractor! tonytiller

Which tractor? We have one and in the last week or so, our son that lives on the farm also, got another tractor. His is a AllisChalmers D15 with 3pt and a trip bucket with only a spear. The bucket may not go on the tractor. Our MF has a wide front and his AC has a narrow front. He spent $1900 for it plus delivery.

I have seen a portable stand made out of a trailer with the sides built in with produce-type boxes and a pop-up canopy for over the top. I wish I had taken pictures. I think the trailer was only 12-15' long.

I understand regarding the auction, there are alot of things to look at and think about before you bid in a split second. I'm pretty good at not buying something that won't sell. Sometimes I mess up, but for most of the time I do ok. I'm definitely an impulse buyer, because you never know what might come in. I have been burnt with flowers because my customers don't come to me for flowers most of the time.

We had a farm stand a few years ago and found out that 1/2 of the produce was not being paid for. That took care of my markup/profit. I've signed up for the online farmers market that JR suggested, but of course, I don't have any produce to market yet. I guess I'll see what happens. We already have orders for red raspberries that we haven't even planted, or received, yet. Regular customer, and she caught us at Sams.

19 hits and I haven't had to do any moderating. Great information everyone. Lets keep it going.

Thank You
Eric

we CAN play nice, can't we? That's better than most places.

Tonytiller, just keep watching sales, auctions and ask older farmers if they have something. You don't need the biggest, baddest monster tractor. Actually that exactly what I didn't need. My old tractors, both are over 40 years old, are smaller and should be easier to work with, plus shorter to climb onto.

I'm still not sure which is better financially, growing yourself (needing extra labor) or buying (basically paying someone else's labor). Down side of growing, if your area gets hit hard by bad weather or other nasties, you could be wiped out. Buying from other SMALLer farmers, like I do, sometimes can save you if you have a larger area of farmers to select from. I usually tried to stay within a 100-150 mile area, with several possible suppliers. Like I said, when I buy, it's usually from other small farmers, not BIG producers.

Right now I'd settle for any kind of a tractor with a P.T.O., 3 point, and preferably free; especially with a Howard rotovator threw in. My road side stand is basically a 5X8 trailer with a built on/in produce stand-works great-looks good. Roof extensions fold up and side shelves swing out. Plan on building another one before May 1st. I traded my 68 logging truck for the one I'm using. During the early season it handles all sales, as produce supply increase,s I add 20 ft. canopys to each side. Last year by the time pumpkins were selling I Had 40 ft. on one side.

I grow all the cut flowers I sell. They need special handling and the auction houses are not set up for it. Cooling etc. People would rather pay for good looking flowers than good looking vegetables. No after sale complaining on flowers. You must have an abundance and a reasonable price so working people can afford them. You can get a lot of flowers (dahlias-Zinnias-snapdragons-etc) from 400 feet of rows. I started u-pick half-way thru the 09 season. More interest than I expected. I did not have time to continue picking and not enough money in them to hire the help. I grow as many vegetables as I possibly can. Mostly all grown with manual labor-not much for equipment-8 HP DR tiller,,, DR RotoHog(blown engine)Smoking 24 HP craftsman puller-300 gal. plastic water tanks. I like to be able to fill in the shortages with my own produce, especially the higher value crops. I try to go with the same varieties that the amish grow to keep my sales product consistent....thank you all--tonytiller

Upick flowers?

Your stand sounds like what I seen.

On our first tractor, we had a truck for sale and the neighbor stopped to ask about the truck. During talking we suggested that if he had a tractor we might trade. He had one sitting in his front yard (farm house) and then it had a for-sale sign on it, after he decided he didn't want our truck. This tractor does not have 3pt, but did have hyralics which was a plus. Our goal was a tractor with hydralics, front loader and 3 pt. We got the hydralics plus a bush hog mower.

My Amish auction sells Cockscomb and some other cut flowers, but not many. I usually just grew veggies, but have started with some sunflowers and cockscomb this last year. I tried to start snapdragons inside and was amazing how small the seeds and plants were. Fingers just couldn't transplant them without breaking the plants. This year, I'm adding zinnia and marigolds. Just simple plants, I hope.

The amish communties seem to stay quite consistent with their produce/flower varieties for the auction houses throughout the country. Cockscomb here too, and not a lot of cut flowers. 1000's of hanging basket's and potted flowers. Hanging basket's are usually too rich for my customer base and are readily available at area shopping centers. I grow out some of my own combination flower planters/containers for later sales when the area shopping centers give up in the heat of the summer. Last years late try at u-pick flowers showed a positive indication of future sales. So, I will try it sooner this year, mainly with zinnia's, cosmos and maybe some of the dahliahs and snapdragon's. This business seems like a good attractant for my farm stand 10 feet away. Earlier I talked about the downtown location-decided yesterday to shut it down-fairly good volume but high expenses. I will put more into the farmstand which is located next to the home patch. I,m trying not to hire help this year. Hopefully I will have a portable farmstand/trailer built and ready for off farm sales and events. Earlier questions concerned disclosure of purchased produce's source. Complete honesty and the full information of growing methods are a must for a product that people put in their mouth. I display the amish growers name and town next to their produce. I encourage customers to attend a produce auction. I put my name next to my home-grown produce. They can see it growing 10 ft. from the stand. I don't know which ones care about it and which ones don't. It does take care of the whispering busybodies(The Disclosure). I have had positive(freshness,Brix,flavor,appearance,price) feedback through out the season. Some request a particular growers vegetables. Yes My Family, snapdragons seed is a pain. The seedlings are much more robust than they appear. They like to be in the ground while small and the weather is still cool. To get a better germination I place the seed tray in the freezer after seeding, overnight or outside in freezing weather for a full 24 hrs.

Thanks for the tip. I still have some seed from last year. We have lots of snow, and more coming in, so I'll try again. My DIL loves snaps. When do you start yours? I know I'm a zone warmer, but I think I'll be able to adjust for that, unless I'm too late.

I used to live in Franklin,Ky. and I used to sell whole sale to a guy who also bought from my Amish neighbors and took it 57 miles down to Nashville,Tn. and sold it at their Farmers market on 8th. street.
But one day I was down in Nashville and went to visit him at the market and he did not know I was standing behind him as he claimed to had grown it himself.
I did not have to much respect for him myself.

Unfortunately, tulsacityfarmer, that is the case alot of the time. Personally, I give my grower/farmers their credit, and my customers appreciate me and them. I do have a hard time convincing other farmers that I do grow in addition to buy. I live well off of the road, can't be seen from road, and all they see is corn/beans in the fields between the road and me. Nobody wants to come back the lane to ACTUALLY check. They just automatically assume that I don't grow ANYTHING.

We are fortunate at our market, we have a local soup kitchen that comes at the end of the market and takes donations of "imperfect" veggies, then they take them and process them up the same day. Lots of food that would usually go to waste is having all the good parts cut out and processed to feed hungry people. Win-win situation. They have older ladies that know how to process it up and what's good to use and what's not, they donate their time too.
Also if you just have too much of 1st quality stuff, you can donate it and get a tax write off. They'll give you a receipt for it.
They take the veggies and freeze them for winter too in several big deep freezes so that they can use them all year. That saves them tons of money vs buying canned and fresh foods in the winter.

Our local soup kitchen doesn't do anything with the produce except hand it directly out. I suggested possibly some of the ladies of the church could can/preserve some of it, and my suggestion wasn't acted on. I guess they don't have the time either.

Sense I started this posting I should throw in my two cents.

Living on a Island word of mouth travels quickly.

I feel in order to have loyal customers you need to know your product. For me the only way to do this, is to produce it.
(We not only sell organic vegetable starts and produce, we sell the concept. We build and install raised beds, drip irrigation, low tunnels, compost systems, ponds and small live stock systems.)

We talk to our customers about building soil, getting hands dirty and smelling it. Having small live stock, for meat, eggs, bug and slug control and fertilizer. Composting, weed supression and many other topics.

It all leads to the product on the table. If the product looks or tastes bad, then the information above is BS.

We are members of a small Farmers Market, about 30 vendors in the summer. I've not seen any of them sell substandard produce or crafts. This leads back to the beginning. Our customers expect a certain level of quality and you will hear from someone if you don't.

Eric

same in a small town, except in a small town its easier to get out of dodge :0) LOL
josh

Hello My Family,Tulsa,Sandy and now eric, and all of you. I feel like an employee of the amish when I'am working to sell their produce more than I feel like I,am reselling produce. They ask for my input and I'am not bashful giving it. Maybe they should be paying my retirement plan and my HEALTH CARE PLAN. The relationship goes far beyond the pay window. This may be because of the disclosure I give my customers. Some customers request produce grown by a specific grower, some even request tonytillers brand. Most don't care. Price, flavor, freshness, and appearance to them is far more important. There are over 200 families(probably more than 500 workers) presenting the finest produce on earth to me three times a week. This is definitely a working/cooperating partnership. I'am happy I switched to a Farmstand Marketing System. Perhaps there should be a grower-reselling seller Farmers Market on off days of the grower/seller Farmers Market. Despite having 500 workers I am still looking for a used tractor and a Howard Rotovator. I try to grow more than half of the produce I sell and all of the cut flowers. I claw this out by using my mothers Heritage method or the hands and knees method. My mother would be proud of her 63yr. old boy. I am using this Heritage method/system in plain sight of all of my customers. They are full of praises and that keeps me going. Now the Snapdragons-I started the seed trays last year on april 6th. More time freezing the trays then previously stated won't hurt. I then put the trays on a heat mat. If hot and bright sun place in partial shade or shade with cheese cloth. Plant in the field 5 to 7 weeks of age. Can put out 3 or more weeks before last frost-if frost is heading your way cover with row cover. They are better off in the ground than overgrown in the tray-they start slow-small plants in the field are ok. I will try seeding March 20 and April 15 this year. I stretch the seeding inside and direct seeding recomendations for flowers/vegetables beyond the limits on both ends. Sometimes I luck out. Food pantrys like fresh produce-last year they gave me $757.00 in reciepts for tax deduction. Goodnite All, tonytiller

Josh, in a small town, you may be able to get out of dodge, but it will follow you til you get it lost in the 'real' boonies.

Tony, I will have hubby start looking for you a tractor. He's online alot looking for tractors and equipment. Email me your preferences and location.

I try the snaps again, now I need to find more room inside that everything that I've already got started and need to up-pot into trays.

I actually have worked with the Amish, in the auction house. Both in the office, when they were starting out and got overwhelmed, and on the floor determining quality standards on new growers. I truly believe that the community is a friend, and I know that a few of them are friends. Who else would check with their daughter to see if she had an extra diaper for my granddaughter when we needed one. Plus the daughter wasn't even at the auction, but lived nearby. I had not met the daughter at that time.

My Family-Top of The Day to You Both------We will be going down to 4 degrees above at nite this week and probably have a 16 inch snow pack on the ground. We have the longer days going in our favor now. Money and I have separated our ways many moons ago-so now can barely scrape up enough to get the 2+ acres planted without buying a tractor this spring. Seeds, Seed Potatoes, Onion Plants, Starter-mix, Row Cover, Mulch Plastic, New Cover for small greenhouse, B&S engine for rotohog, add some new starting trays and containers, material for second Market Trailer, 76 Chev Dually still on blocks, and the wish list goes on and on. This is why I need to sell produce 7 days a week and keep a tractor in my dreams. I just might get to that dream this season. I definitely will need to increase my volume to be able to increase my income. This is why the amish produce auctions are very important to me. They along with my produce allows me to have one of the best produce displays and best quality for miles around including the area "Farmers Markets". The largest city is Madison, 40 miles south and they have a very large real Market, which I don,t need to compete with but do attract some of their customers by accident. I like to see everyone of us marketer,s being successful, it,s good for business. Growers-resellers/Sellers and Growers-sellers/sellers must hang together or hang separately. The amish remind me of my boyhood days on the small 80 acre farm in hills of Wi. and all of our helpful neighbors. Grain threshing, butchering, wood cutting, the portable saw mill were all a comunity event. Good eats, a warm beer, shared rags and outside wash tub threw in. It didn,t matter who grew what, if you made a buck everyone celebrated with you and was proud to rub shoulders with ya. Gee-that was nice. Most every one had work horse,s, a few small tractors started showing up. I was a little shaver, so got to drive all the nieghbors teams around the field and to the thresher while the big boys through the bundles on and off. bye all-tonytiller

Warm beer, yuck :0)
josh

We didn't expect to find our tractor last year, just kept looking and hoping. The neighbor that had it, had lost his job, and didn't need it anymore. It was more a plaything for him versus a tractor to work with.

16 inches of snow pack, and notice how nonchalantly he says it, like thats normal, LOL, if I got that much snow tony, youd be hard pressed to get me out of the house, what am I saying, we have less than half that and you still barely get me out of the house, :0) hahaha
josh

Last nites 4 degree guesstimate, in reality turned into a 8 degree below zero wakeup this morning. At 7am on the way to school I made a mistake and asked the grand daughter where a stocking cap was? "ITS NOT COLD,,,PAPA. Too many boys at middle school-sweet valentines dance there tomarrow nite.... To give myself and everyone out there a basic example of what I'am up against in selling and growing and buying produce I got my green dime store calculator out. I will probably need 10,000 8" slicing cukes this year; through out the season "available every day". This does not include additional pickles (canning-munching-midgets etc.) In order to hang on to my customer base I need these no matter what the weather is, what the vine bugs do, what the bees don't do, or when the powdery mildew hits, etc... This is approximately 315 half bushels. I may be able to grow half of them-due to unknowns maybe not. Whether I grow or purchase these cukes from the amish the costs will be about the same; $2,000.00, which includes LABOR. Total gross income figureing 20% into the compost pile will be roughly $2,800.00 or only $800.00 towards my used dream tractor. SoSo,, Its good I have 500 workers covering my behind or I could lose customers and the $800.00. bye all tonytiller

I can't figure that close, actually I'm scared to figure it out. I do know that If I had not had my Amish friends growing and selling at the auction this last year, I would have had to close down. I really would like to grow everything, but I also know that with my sales volume, I can't.

I had not thought much about average paycheck recieving peoples perceptions on income until I married my wife. The first time she actualy took an interest in the books was also the first time she sat with me at the accountants office, she heard him say that particular year I had grossed $65,000.00 , that was with my predator trapping buisness included. She looked at me, serious as a hard attack and said, what did you do with all that money, I havent seen near that amount in our personal account. I was dumbfounded, I was like, we didnt get paid that much, she said but the accountant said you took in $65,000 , I said yeah I did, she said where is it. The accountant caught on to the misunderstanding before I did. He explained to her, you only got $26,000 of that, the rest had to cover the overhead. She was like it took 65 thousand dollars just to earn 26 thousand dollars, I said welcome to the world of the self employed.
josh

She was like it took 65 thousand dollars just to earn 26 thousand dollars.

This statement is not exactly correct.

Eric

What do you mean, is there something Im not seeing, you are quite the cryptic one at times master eric
josh

I understand the 65,000 down to 26,000. Overhead and expenses add up to alot. Of course, the 26,000 is probably taxable income. My 40K gross year was only 10K or less taxable. I had alot of mileage expense.

Oh yeah, it was taxable income, yeah it was less after taxes, dont exactly remember how much, the other numbers stuck to my memory by the wifes reaction. Of course when you apply for loans or AG programs they always want the before tax, dont understand thier thinking on that though, taxes can be close to 30 percent of your income.
josh

I went to school for Accounting, taxes in particular, because it was challenging. I used to say, my hubby married me to do his taxes. Now I used the knowledge more for the farm than anything.

Well got my taxes done today, I did not do as good as I had hoped, though on the bright side Obama felt so sorry for me he is giving me a $6,000.00 tax return. The farm cleared a after tax take home of $15,000.00. Safe to say if that was our only income we would be well below the national poverty line.
I farm for the money LOL :0)
josh

josh, I would be very happy with $15,000.00 after tax (net income) this year. That would mean however that I would need $40,000.00 Plus in sales volume (gross income). Thats a lot of pickles. A $6000.00 tax refund could mean a darn good tractor/tiller/equipment. How many dependent tax deductions would I need to round up. I'll get right to work on it. tonytiller

My mother is one of nine kids and my father is one of eight. They like to say, it's a long cold winter in North Dakota. LOL! :~) So we moved to Washington. I'm one of four boys. See what warm weather does.

Eric

Josh, those kids of yours sure do add up with the deductions. Since we don't have children to take their deductions, we miss out on some of those good deductions.

But kids arent cheap. They out grow thier clothes in a matter of months, they hurt themselves, they get into the tool shed and swipe my tools, they harass the poultry, they get sick, noone said theyd be this expensive or this much work, and they are harder to fence in than the goats, one should get paid to have kids LOL, oh well now that I have em I wouldnt trade them for the world, and they are quite entertaining.

Josh

I remember, we had 3 boys. Full of energy and into everything. We bought alot of yard sale clothes and hand-me-downs. We also had a large garden. We should have done this marketing thing back then. Now we have 5 grandkids. The middle grandchild informed me yesterday that we were to plant corn, potatoes, beans, maters and lots of other things. He is only 5, and lives in town.

one should get paid to have kids LOL

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and Josh, some should be paid "NOT" to have kids.

Eric

Eric, true, couldnt agree more
josh