Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
mquincoces

Newbie-biointensive or Eliot Coleman spacing?

mquincoces
11 years ago

Hi! I'm in Argentina and want to start a csa type market garden here. But there are not that many people doing it here and not very much info around here. Gardens are usually either small family plots or large agricultural farms in my area. I've had a family garden for a few years near my house. I'm getting ready to do a test run in this area next year (southern hemisphere, so seasons are switched). I'd like to practice planning and growing for a csa on a small scale first, and then the year after that move to a 2 acre field.
I've found a couple of calculator type programs that help you plan how much space you need, seeds needed, etc. but they are all based on biointensive type spacing. I've also been reading Eliot Coleman's the new organic gardener... I really like his approach. But it seems that within his beds he uses wider spacing between his rows than in the biodynamic method? Looks like he does this so he can undersow green manures?
What kind of system do you use? What is the spacing between rows? Advantages vs disadvantages? I'd really appreciate any advise:)
I'll be starting from scratch in a field currently used as a horse pasture. Flat, loamy, fertile, no rocks... I'd love to use a walking tractor but I can't find one here so ill likely use a rear tined tiller.
Thank you in advance :-)

Comments (15)

  • cole_robbie
    11 years ago

    I think most people make their between-row spacing correlate to the dimensions of their tiller, cultivator, or mower.

    Has your weather been unusual lately? It seems like it is everywhere. In my opinion, at least for me, dealing with weather extremes is very important right now: greenhouses, high tunnels, and row covers when it's too cold and shade and irrigation for when it's too hot. Everything is a gamble about the weather; if it's perfect, then I end buying shade and irrigation that I don't need, and then I don't make any money. But if it's horrible weather, which is what I am betting on, then I will have the best crops at the market.

  • mquincoces
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    That makes sense :). I don't have any equipment yet (been doing everything so far with a shovel). I think I'll probably use a rear tined tiller since the tractor plus all the tools would be too expensive for me starting up.
    So you space the bigger crops wide enough so you can get the tiller in between? What about wheel hoes? Are they too much work still for an acre or 2?
    Basically I need to plan the garden around the tools I'll have, but I need to start working on getting the tools now. And except for the tiller I think I'll have to buy everything in the states, take it apart and put it in a suitcase to get it here. I can't find any tools like a wheel hoe or seeder or even a broad fork here. People look at me like I'm crazy. Either you have a small enough garden that you can use your shovel, rake, and hoe; or you're big enough that you NEED a tractor.
    You"re definitely right about the temperature extremes. I was going to try and postpone figuring all that out but obviously that's not a good idea :/. And it HAS been colder than normal here too. The last month we've had frost on the ground on days that should have been pool days! Crazy.
    I also can't find row covers. I've actually NEVER seen them here. Seems like people who use weather protection are big enough to have a lot of very long plastic houses (like a high tunnel but framed with 2x4's).
    I could make my own with home made wire or PVC hoops and construction plastic, right? Do you think I could use shade fabric as floating row covers?
    Thanks for all your help with my zillions of questions :)

  • myfamilysfarm
    11 years ago

    Shade cloth that I have is too dark and heavy for frost blankets. Old old cotton sheets will work for frost blankets. Flowing row covers would look more like heavy cheesecloth or fabric interfacing (not the iron on type), if that helps you image/see it.

    If you don't have alot of wind or snow load, then I believe you could make it with PVC. Construction will work, but will not hold up as long and the longer it is in the sun the more likely it will break down.

    We used a rear tine tiller for years, just make your rows wide enough between plus 2-5 inches more than the width of the tiller. We used a front-tine for awhile, until we could afford the rear tine. rear tine is much easier on your back.

    I'm not sure you could take the metal parts in your suitcase on a plane. Security issues.

    I have found some hoes that come with short handles, the handles could be replaced with longer ones.

    As far as starting the CSA, find your people, then add to what you can grow in your area. If your garden is a good amount for a family of 4, and you have 5 CSA membership, then increase your garden by 5. I haven't had a good time finding CSA memberships for me, others do well.

    How I started growing for others was to double the size of my garden (I always had a huge garden), found out that I needed more. So the next year, we doubled again. This carried on for a few years, until I couldn't handle it by ourselves.

  • cole_robbie
    11 years ago

    It sounds like sourcing your materials and supplies is going to be the biggest issue.

    A wheel hoe would be a great exercise machine. After you used it enough, it would get easier, but unless you want a lot of extra exercise, a power tiller is much more effective. There is merit to the scuffle hoe idea, however, because it saves soil moisture if there is a drought.

    Mulch makes weeding and irrigation easier. That would be something else to figure out now regarding available materials. Mulch can be just about anything. Standard commercial practice in the US is to use black plastic mulch with drip tape underneath it to irrigate. But that may not be an option for you.

    In regard to choosing a crop, you have to find out what grows well in your area, and then make sure that it is something people want to buy.

  • boulderbelt
    11 years ago

    I like the wheel hoe because it does 10x the work of a shuffle hoe and unlike a tiller does not harm the soil. It's also a lot cheaper to run and it will give you a bit of a work out (but far less than just a hoe)

    I use the Coleman method for my farm's layout-lots of 4' x 100' beds.

  • mquincoces
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thank you everyone! This is exactly what need. I'm learning that reading how to do something and actually DOING it are two different things, jejeje.
    I know I can get black plastic and fabrics to make mulch and floating row covers, not sure about drip tape. Must be out there, just have to find it. I've seen stiff tubing that you install sprayers into like for landscaping.
    I'm going to start off by doubling the size of my garden like myfamilysfarm suggested and see how I do with an actual plan :). Before I've only grown whatever I feel like, without any regard to schedule because we're lucky to have a really long summer. And if the bugs get oh well better luck next year. The real challenge for me, i think, will be to be able to produce a projected harvest every week according to plan.
    Boulderbelt, do you also use the row spacings in the Coleman book? So you use primarily the wheel hoe? What about the shuffle hoe attachment that Coleman recommends?
    Anybody have any recommendations for a seeder? Earthway?
    I'm pretty sure I can sell my produce, I bring seeds from the states that you can't get here, and every one's been telling me I should start selling. So I'm going to do a serious survey, start a website, and see what real response I get
    Thanks again!

  • mquincoces
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thank you everyone! This is exactly what need. I'm learning that reading how to do something and actually DOING it are two different things, jejeje.
    I know I can get black plastic and fabrics to make mulch and floating row covers, not sure about drip tape. Must be out there, just have to find it. I've seen stiff tubing that you install sprayers into like for landscaping.
    I'm going to start off by doubling the size of my garden like myfamilysfarm suggested and see how I do with an actual plan :). Before I've only grown whatever I feel like, without any regard to schedule because we're lucky to have a really long summer. And if the bugs get oh well better luck next year. The real challenge for me, i think, will be to be able to produce a projected harvest every week according to plan.
    Boulderbelt, do you also use the row spacings in the Coleman book? So you use primarily the wheel hoe? What about the shuffle hoe attachment that Coleman recommends?
    Anybody have any recommendations for a seeder? Earthway?
    I'm pretty sure I can sell my produce, I bring seeds from the states that you can't get here, and every one's been telling me I should start selling. So I'm going to do a serious survey, start a website, and see what real response I get
    Thanks again!

  • Oystereater
    11 years ago

    This is what I use in my smaller plots, its faster than a tiller and allows me to get right next to my plants without damaging the roots. Plus I dont loose much ground moisture when its dry. However, it doesnt work well if you any rocks or twigs.

  • mquincoces
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    That looks awesome! What is it called? Where did you get it?

  • myfamilysfarm
    11 years ago

    Oystereater, I've thrown 2 of those away. Didn't seem to work for me.

  • Oystereater
    11 years ago

    mquincoces, it was purchased brand new by my grandfather over fifty years ago, and simular models can be found on ebay. It works awesome. myfamilysfarm, it wouldnt particulary hurt my feelings in you refrained from commenting on my posts, your sarcasm towards anything that doesnt fall into your line of thinking does nothing for me and adds nothing constructive to the forum.

  • henhousefarms
    11 years ago

    Oystereater

    I don't think Marla was trying to be disrespectful, she's just saying that particular machine did not work well for them. Frankly, we have one somewhere in the barn and it does not work either. Perhaps it is our soil, or maybe it is somehow different from the one you have, or maybe we don't hold our mouths right. I don't know but it is not very useful. I would much rather have a discussion of both the pros and cons of a given machine to conclude if I want to buy one. I am sure it works well for you - nothing here to take away from that.

    Tom

  • boulderbelt
    11 years ago

    Oystereater, I am another person that has bought such a device and got of rid of it as it did not work for us. Wheel hoes and shuffle hoes work much much better for us than that thing.

    M, We use an Earthway seeder and I think it is a good cheap seeder. Others will have other opinions about seeders. The Earthway has some issues, it tends to skip areas if one is not careful, seeds get caught up in the plates (and this will harm larger seeds). There are much better seeders out there but they also cost 5x to 10x more than an Earthway

    Yes, we do the spacing described in the Coleman book for the most part. Some things we have figured out better spacing, what they are i cannot think of off the top of my head. basically most things are either spaced 8" to 24" apart with 18" between rows. For things like squash and melons we do a single row and space 3' to 4' apart

  • Oystereater
    11 years ago

    Tom, i appreciate your comment as it was respectful and informative, not just a negatory input with no useful benefit. if you flip it over and use the flat blade, adjusted correctly, it will cut weeds/grass off just under the surface of the soil, however, it must be kept sharp and as I stated, if you have a lot of twigs or rocks, it will not work well. I will post a video of operation as soon as the weather dries up enough to make one!

  • myfamilysfarm
    11 years ago

    Didn't mean to be disrespectful. I only wished that the ones I had would have worked for me or if I could have found someone that wanted them. Maybe if I had someone to show me how it work, it might have worked better for me. I don't have LOTS of rock, but some. After 15 or so years, I've went thru several pieces of equipment, to find what works or doesn't for me.

0
Sponsored
NME Builders LLC
Average rating: 5 out of 5 stars2 Reviews
Industry Leading General Contractors in Franklin County, OH