Why don't you use the 2$/sq foot model for it?

Reference the SPIN model since it is trendy, Elliot Coleman for season extension possibilities down the line to augment the bottom line once further capital is available, and Peter Henderson/Paris market gardens in the mid-1800s for historical interest.

http://www.archive.org/stream/gardeningprofit00hendiala#page/n5/mode/2up

Do you think you will actually get anything planted this year, Mike?:)

I have not used this calculator, as there is a fee, but maybe next year. You could take a look and see if it is something that might help you. Have been following your posts and your excitement is contagious!

Here is a link that might be useful: land share colorado calculator

I don't know if you have access to the Knott's Handbook (if you do not have it I am sure the local library can get it) but it has a table that gives average yield in hundredweight per acre. It takes a little bit of math to work out the average plant yield as there is also a plant density table but it is not too difficult. It will give you the figures you are looking for plus it's a respectable resource so can show hard data for your numbers.

It seems like you want to put a lot of capital improvement into this ground - what type of lease are they willing to offer? I would hate to see you put a huge amount of money and labor into a plot only to see it pulled from under you in a couple years.

Tom

>> Do you think you will actually get anything planted this year, Mike?:) Well, so far I only have about 450 Ky Pole Beans, 170 tomatoes, 15 basil, 150 strawberries, 45 feet of carrots, 20 hot peppers, 10 acorn squash (in containers as an experiment), two dozen onions and about 100 heads of Romaine lettuce, 76 heads of Swiss Chard and 100 feet of potatoes.

To go, weather permitting and permission received!: 120 tomatoes, 150 onions, 150 acorn squash, 40 peppers, 75 sweet potatoes. Later this summer, 300 feet of Sugar Snap peas, 150 heads of lettuce.

Not near as much as I hoped or planned, but losing 15,000 sq. ft. (for this year) and not finding this new garden until just a few days ago, I lost probably 800 tomato seedlings (too big, inexperience with a new media that worked great until about two weeks ago!), 550 sugar snap peas - 240 of them got washed away when we had 5+ inches of rain in a week's time, the others got way too large to transplant.

I'm disheartened but not depressed - I'm more like that little boy whose dad tells him there is a "present" in a spare bedroom. He walks in to find it half-full of manure and is thrilled - he knows there has to be a pony in there someplace!

Tom,

I won't put much more than sweat, labor and planning into it. The land is owned by the county but leased, in perpetuality to the Hamilton County Agricultural Society. One of its main charges, dating back to when William Henry Harrison was the first president of the Society (and later the country!) was to introduce new concepts in farming. My goal would be to suggest that this property, that is not used at all and likely never will be, be leased to me for a minimum of five years, the reason being that amount of time would allow me to plant fruit trees and berry bushes and recover at least their cost (plus profit). In exchange, I will keep meticulous records, study how to maximize production, grow organically as much as possible.

My goal for this year, though, is much more simple - make enough money to afford a decent garden tractor that includes at least a tiller attachment and a trailer to haul it. See if using the phenological calendar to aid in deciding when and what type of fertilizer to add increases productivity, getting the plant starting methods down pat (so I have decent size snap peas ready to replace the beans this fall) - these are the things that can make a huge difference next year when I have maybe 1.5 acres to use!

I know, this is nothing compared to what some people in this forum use, but I already have a full-time job and have no help at all.

Mike

I should have known that you had things well in hand. For many years we had a patch of ground that belonged to the railroad we grew popcorn on - was a great deal for both parties. When the roadbed was abanndon they sold the area to the elevator and they turned it into an access road for them.

A lot of berry bushes are very easy to propagate from cuttings (blackberies and rasberries and the like). You might get a couple bushes established then go that route - would delay production about a year but would save the capital outlay of buying them.

I sure hope you can get a good tractor set up. It's amazing just how much time you can save yourself with simple equipment. I will be the first to admit I'm an implement junkie. The Central Illinois Sustainable Farming Network has held a workshop the last couple years for small farmers using, building and adapting implements to use in small acerage. Unfortunatly, I have not been able to attend and missed it again this spring. I guess there is always next year.

Tom

Tom, when you find out about the CISFN workshop next spring, email me. It's not that far for me, and Indiana doesn't help out small farmers.

Marla

Be happy to Marla, if I can remember (not as young as I used be,you know). We are very lucky here to have several groups that work with small growers - U of I, CISFN, The Land Conection come to mind. We have attended several programs over the years with one of the best being one Land Connection did concerning value added products. They had people from USDA, the state Ag Department, reps from one of the local Public Health Departments, a farm market manager, an attorney to talk about the legal aspects and several producers that had gone through the process to get approved to sell VAP's giving presentations. We were in the proces of starting to plan for setting up our cider pressing operation (still working on that) and the info was very informative. As a side note, Illinois is working on getting a Cottage Foods Bill passed (SB 840). It passed the state Senate in May and was in the House but I have not seen an update for a while. Here is a rundown -

Synopsis As Introduced
Amends the Food Handling Regulation Enforcement Act. Sets forth definitions for "cottage food operation" and "non-potentially hazardous food". Provides that notwithstanding any other provision of law, neither the Department of Public Health nor the Department of Agriculture nor the health department of a unit of local government may regulate the service of food by a cottage food operation providing that certain conditions are met. Amends the Sanitary Food Preparation Act to make a corresponding change.

If it passes it will open a whole new avenue for small producers - keeping fingers crossed.

The Illinois Fruit and Vegetable Newsletter has a schedule of upcomming events in each issue along with a lot of great information. It's free - just sign up at their homepage - and comes out every couple of weeks during the season. While it is tailored to Illinois lots of the info is applicable across the Midwest.

Tom

(Wordwiz - sorry to somewhat have hijacked your thread)

Here is a link that might be useful: Illinois Fruit and Vegetable News Homepage

Indiana already has that type of law, but several farmers markets and county Board of Health implement more restrictive guidelines.

Marla

I do not understand the opening:

sold locally - directly to consumers, at prices equal to or less than what they would pay at supermarkets. (Gotta have a premise!)

Why would you sell at such a low price? Your locally grown produce should be of better quality and fresher than anything in the grocery store.

Without the abbility to irrigate you are taking a huge gamble. Fencing and crop protection could be a significant issue too.

Do not sell your produce short, produce top quality and charge accordingly. There are plenty of people willing to pay and others are learning to do so every day.

dd,

It sounds better than "sold locally - directly to consumers, at prices higher than what they would pay at supermarkets." :-)

Yes, not being able to irrigate does mean I need to rely a little bit more heavily on nature than others. This is not new to me - I raised tobacco and a rather large garden for years and not one time was there a pond nearby (one spot was next to a river - I lost most of that crop after a flood even though we did not get any rain!). Plus, my original site (~1/2 acre) is being rehabbed and should be ready next season. It has a 6-inch water main. I'm hoping to basically raise "seed money" and I don't mean cash to buy seeds with. Having a garden tractor and a few pieces of equipment to work the ground and plant seeds will make next year far easier.

I'll make that money, at least if the weather is decent.

Mike

Mike, even if you can't raise enough to buy a tractor, there are rental places that have small utility tractors with 4' tiller attachments. We rented 1 a few times a year, until we were able to find a tractor that we could afford.

We also lived without a well for 10 years and gardened all of that time. I transported water for drinking and cooking. Also collected rain water for everything else. At times, I did take a few 55 gal plastic barrels to a neighbor and filled them for the garden when things got desperate.

You can make it, just maybe not as much as you would wish.

Marla

Marla,

Dad taught me that I have to get it done. Period, no excuses accepted. I found a Craftsman GT6000 tractor on Craigs list today for $500 (a little suspicious - there seems to be several of them available for the same price throughout the US!), but the guy who is helping me reclaim the other garden tells me I will be able to get equipment at a great price this fall/winter

What can I say - I'm optimistic, and that is an understatement. Plant enough tomatoes, beans, cucumbers, squash, lettuce, peas, etc., find a good place to sell them at a decent price, pocket the money and look for bargains. I figure a tractor, tiller, moldboard plow, wheel weights and chains will be a good start. Learn this year how to fertilize plants to increase production, timing succession planting, build a big red wagon to haul my produce from the one garden that has no easy access to my truck. As I would tell my younger brothers when dad sent us to a job that seemed impossible: there's nothing to it but to do it!

Mike

Nice, Mike! I am glad that you are soldiering on despite the setbacks.

My boyfriend and I are hand-digging about 8000 sq feet of sod into beds and I understand your desire for a tiller. We are trying to be non-mechanized and there is no room in the garage for a horse, so...

One of the lessons my Dad bore into my skull from the time I can remember is never scrimp when you are buying tools. We have a GT 5000 at the north farm and frankly it is not very suitable for any fieldwork. Does a great job of mowing grass and we use it to pull wagons but anything else it is just not suitable for. I Googled the 6000 and it looks almost identical except for the engine and some sheet metal. First, it's too light. Traction is a formula of weight versus horsepower. I would guess the dry weight of our 5000 at maybe 500 lbs. I can (and have) picked up both the front and back by hand to block it up or shift it out of mud. Get it onto wet grass or mud and a little slope and it spins. Too much HP and too little weight. You can add wheel weights and bar tires which will help but that's going to set you back a couple hundred more bucks. Even then I doubt it would pull a plow very well. Two, there is no three point hitch. They make a 3pt bolt on hitch and also a Brinly style hitch but they are manual lift - no hydraulics. Any implement you are going to attach is going to be fairly heavy (especially a tiller attachment) and thus hard to lift. There is also no PTO so a tiller is going to have to be powered by and auxiliary engine. Third, the construction of the tractor is pretty light. Working dirt is a lot more taking than mowing grass and frankly calling it a GT (Garden Tractor) is a bit of a stretch. The stearing components are not HD at all (the ball joints specially) nor is the drivetrain. Nothing tears up equipment faster than using beyond it's ability (been there done that more times than I care to admit).

The last thing I want to do is sound negative but your needing more tractor than that. I run an old JD 400 for equipment - it's easily three time the tractor the 5000 is and frankly it's too small. I know it's easy to spend someone elses money but if you get something too small for your purposes it will end up disappointing in the long run.

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the advice. I agree, spending $2500 or even $500 for a tractor that will not get the job done is a waste of money - that's another thing dad taught me NOT to do!

Cowpie has a Craftsman he uses to pull a plow and other equipment but I don't know what size it is.

It will be this fall (at the earliest!) before I get a tractor so I will have time to look around.

Mike

Mike, keep your eyes out for a 'real' tractor, it can be small (like a Kubota-size), but a tractor, not a 'garden tractor. You plan on doing this for more than a couple of years, and almost every garden tractor that I bought, NEW, only lasted 2 years MAX. Plus all I did was mow and pull little wagons. I thank my lucky stars everyday for that old 1949 Massey Harris that we found for $900. Yes we did some work and spent another $200-300 on repairs, very worth it. Unfortunately, it does not have a 3point and pull type of equipment has been hauled off to scrap yards for the most part. Son bought a Ford for $1400 with a 3point, but no hydralics. Between the 2 tractors we can git it dun, now.

Fall and winter are the best times to check out auctions, we always look for the ugly tractors that have not been restored, they usually go cheaper. Ask neigbors about how the owner took care of things, they know (whether you want them to or not).

I know that you already know all of this, I'm just reminding you.

No matter what size of garden, if it's more than 1/2 acre, you will need a real tractor. We have figured this out after buying 4 garden tractors in the last 10 years.

Marla

Marla,

Yes, you are preaching to the choir! If I find a steal on a good garden tractor, something that I can use for two years - I'll jump on it. I did find a 1949 Cubbie with cultivators for a decent price. They don't have a 3-point hitch but they will pull a one-bottom plow and a pull-behind tiller. Without much engineering, I could also make a middle-buster plow for potatoes and onions and use the back cultivators to make furrows for peas, beans, squash and several other seeds, then use the cultivators to cover them. If I would get real lucky, it would come with a side-dresser!

If I had a dollar for every hour I spent on dad's Cubbie, I could probably afford a 4000 Ford with every attachment I would ever need!

Mike

Cub's are a good little tractor, my grandmother had one and had alot of attachments for it. I'm not sure if it would've held up, but that was back in the 60s when they still made things that lasted.

Marla

Marla,

This was a 1949 model. It held up real good until I mistook linseed oil for motor oil! The engine died and was replaced, at cost of parts only, by a Vocational School class who needed the experience.

I upset the tractor once (easy to do if the left side is downhill, impossible to do vice-versa!). The radiator looked like it was ruined so dad had mom and I go to a store to have it checked. Yeah, they said, it is ruined, you need a new one. I don't recall the cost but it was more than mom wanted to spend (we grew up on the poor side of the balance beam) so she decided not to buy a replacement. Took it to the farm, attached it to the tractor, filled it with water (leaving the radiator cap off) and started the tractor. No leaks at all. I think the most water I ever added at a time was a quart.

The muffler eventually was worthless - dad replaced it with a metal pipe. Worked great, unless one was cultivating in a "heavy air" atmosphere, the kind where the barometric pressure is real low, and no breeze. In that case, the C02 could get to you after a few hours.

I would be in 7th Heaven if I could get one, after all these years!

Mike

About 3-4 years ago, my uncle (who inherited the farm) had it hauled to the scrap yard. I don't know if it still ran or not. He didn't want to deal with it.

Last year, I seen a AC garden tractor, 1962 for sale, ran and good metal for $1200. Too much for me. Don't know if it sold or not.

Marla