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longday1

Trying to figure out the financial viability...

longday1
14 years ago

And it just doesn't seem to add up. I'm looking at starting a baking business, selling at farmers markets in Southern CA. Looking at the financial side, you've got a permit that runs at almost $500/year, insurance at almost $1000/year, fees to the market organizer of around 8% of your takings (or is that profit, and if so, how do they police or calculate this?), you have to cook in a commercial kitchen at an average of $18/hour. Then you have your ingredients, packaging, and start-up costs of a tent, tables, displays, safe food handling course etc. Therefore, the minimum outlay before you even start is somewhere around $2000. Assuming you're making a profit of $1.50 per item (individual cakes/cookies), then you'd have to sell a LOT of them to even start to cover your weekly costs, and this is without factoring in your time.

So, anonymously, or hyperthetically if you like, how are so many very small vendors possibly making this work? I've seen vendors with just a few different items for sale, and clearly not moving them quickly, and I just can't understand how they are making any income without cutting corners somewhere. Are they shirking insurance? Are they baking from home (and if so, are they ignoring State regulations or finding a way around them)? Are they waiting until they have volume before they comply? I'm genuinely puzzled since I cannot see how they can possibly make it work if they're doing it "right".

Thoughts?

Comments (7)

  • keltink
    14 years ago

    We do honey/veggies/transplants, not baked goods, but for what it's worth: We have a Wednesday market in one town and a Saturday market in another (mountains of North Carolina). The Wednesday market fee for a year is $20; $15 for the Saturday market. We don't have insurance, though we are considering picking that up this year. We pay no percentage fees to the market managers.
    A certified kitchen isn't needed because we don't sell items requiring one, at least not yet.
    Packaging does cost us a tidy sum. We buy jars and honey beazs for the honey, plus we purchase biodegradable cellulose bags for the salad mix/greens. Plus labels and so on.
    However, we are making money doing this. Wouldn't bother, otherwise. That said, I have seen a few vendors selling baked goods who can't possibly be making money after you cost out the ingredients/electricity. I'm assuming their home kitchens are certified, though many here clearly run under the radar.
    Your fees etc. sound excessive to me. You are correct not to move forward if the bottom line doesn't justify ... too many folks don't do the math first. Good luck!

  • herbalbetty
    14 years ago

    In NY state, you can bake some things in a home certified kitchen and other things must be in a commercial kitchen. Does CA have any division of items like that? For instance, you can bake cookies, jelly and some cakes in a home kitchen that has been certified. But, you need a commercial kitchen for syrups, chocolates, vinegars, certain pies, etc. In NY, it's the Department of Ag and Markets that determines this. If you can do enough things with a home certification, it might cut your expenses dramatically.

  • ocean512beach
    14 years ago

    In an attempt to determine how much my initial outlay of money will be to start a hydroponic farm (small scale), is it safe to think that the following would be what I ought to consider:
    Equipment (the actual hardware of the system)
    Lighting (if you're using the sun it's free, if not there's the cost of lights, electrical works, and electricity) â¨
    Environmental (any heating, cooling, fans, etc) â¨
    Nutrients (plants gotta eat, and if you're buying RO water that goes here too) â¨
    Seeds (generally considered an inconsequential cost)
    Packaging/Labels
    Tents
    Tables

    Separate question here: Is there a calculation formula I ought to use to determine what my possible income would be if crops yield as planned?

  • veggierosalie
    14 years ago

    longday1,

    I have been wondering the same thing about some of the vendors at my market. What I have decided is that the ones who are not doing great sales must have other income. They have husbands with good jobs, are on seniors pension, and at least one at my market is on social assistance. Either way, they are there as a hobby not for their full time livelihood. More likely than not they are barely coving their expenses and most only last for a few seasons.

    As for the expense of a commercial kitchen, I know that some people use a church kitchen, they just pay a donation to the church not a full rental amount. And where I am, only baking sold individually, for immediate consumption needs to be made in a commercial kitchen. Pickles can be made from home but jams need a commercial kitchen. Meat products must be made in a commercial kitchen. It varies from region to region and is based on issues around 'dangerous' foods that can contain pathogens.

    As far as hobbyists go at the market, I have mixed opinions. When hobbyists start taking vendor space from full time farmers I think the market is on a down turn. The quality of the product decreases and market politics increases. It gets really annoying when some pensioner comes in and dumps a few pounds of produce at next to nothing and I have to spend the rest of the day explaining to customers why my product costs more than his. But I am getting off topic!

  • hanselmanfarms
    14 years ago

    Where I'm at, all baked goods, canned goods and etc MUST be made in a certified kitchen and you MUST have a food handlers permit. That's why, I don't do cooking. Even selling my own veggies, I have to have business insurance. Lucky for me, it only cost me $125. My market fees are $290 per space (6 months, 3 days/week). If you don't pay the yearly fees, you pay daily fees. $10 for Tues/Thurs and $25 for Sat per space 10' wide.

  • User
    14 years ago

    Longday1,
    The people at the farmers market didn't get a permit, don't have insurance, make it at home in their own kitchen, (which is a no no) and gladly pay the small fee to be at the market.
    If you want a legitimate baking business, why would you go to a farmers market? How much are these other people really charging?
    Now you know when you walk into a "real" bakery why cookies cost so much. The overhead is terrible, and that doesn't include all the taxes you must pay when you have a bakery shop.
    Do the people who run the market go around asking for proof of insurance? Do you request a copy of your permit?
    Does your local Board of Health regularly walk around asking the vendors questions about where they baked the food? I bet you never saw that not even once.
    So, you could be legit, add all your expenses, do it the "right" legit way and charge for your baked goods accordingly, (Please note the accordingly),
    or you could just bake them at home, and pay what ever is absolutley demanded of you at the market.
    Personally, I am going to be honest with you, I used to be in the food business, it's not worth it. Trust me.
    If you absolutely love to bake, so much that you can't help yourself but bake, then go ahead and try it.
    You won't make any money at it, but you will love what you are doing. (it will be a hobby).

  • hanselmanfarms
    14 years ago

    Our farmers market IS visited by the Board of Health, and we must have a copy of our insurance and food establishment permit BEFORE we are allowed to sell at our farmer's market. We have had several businesses start out at our farmers market. It was a place that they could start easier than to rent a place of business. Since our market has been in business for over 140 years, it is an established market, and lots of people visit the market to find new items. If the business venture does not work out, the business can close down easier than to 'break' a lease.

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