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timmylaz

Market Gardening- WOW, what a tough sport!!

timmylaz
13 years ago

Well, I haven't posted anything on here since it was so cold their wasn't much else to do. We had a good spring. Our second year at the market and our salad mix was popular and so were the potted herb plants. Now it's HOT! OK, maybe I just need to vent for a minute in a forum which most of my frustrations are shared. We are experiencing turmoil in our gardens at the moment and it's driving me crazy. Trying to be "organic" and natural is more of a challenge than I would like it to be. So, what's the problem this year timmy?, you ask. Once again, good spring- few problems a few slugs on the lettuce and flee beetles making swiss holes in ALL greens. Now it's on.

Quick run down on one garden. Divided into 8 sections. Some crops take more than one section.

1- Beans- we have some bean beetles but the real problem is the morning glories. Before it got hot, and after planting the beans, the weeds got a chance to grow since it had been raining so much we couldn't set foot in the garden for anything, it was so mucky. Morning glories have taken over the beans. I've asked old timers and newbies their take-> this weekend we will till in the beans before the morning glories go to seed. 100% crop loss, maybe some nutrients added to the soil as the beans have some flowers and a few small beans.

2- Melons seem to have what looks like either anthracnose or bottom end rot. As soon as you're thinking, nice melons you see a soft spot that then turns dark and grows in size.

3-Squash- did you know that a squash bug is a stink bug? did you know their are 90+ types of stink bug? I even planted butternut hearing that they were restistent to the buggers. All squash is a wash this year. I have some long island cheese that look like they might make it but that's what the little stinkers do. They wait until stuff looks good and then BAM there they are.

4-melons again, just turned in that patch

5- cucumbers- this is one crop that is producing like mad for us, even though the cucumber beetles are all over and mr. stinky is there too. When one vendor has cucumbers everyone has cucumbers!!

6- Peppers- got beat up by the storms. Then I've had some with rot. Haven't seen the bugs on the peppers. Don't let stinky know! Overall peppers look pretty good. Let's hope that they continue that path.

7- Tomatoes- Nice looking plants. Again, got them in a little later than we would have liked since we couldn't get in to plant them in the mud. We even ended up walking o nard board to get in when we could. Early it was worms, BT took care of that round but not w/out damage. Then stinky makes the scene just as the maters are starting to fruit. Then HOT temps over 100 for more than a week, during which time we got 8" of DOWNPOUR in a weeks time. Today what do I see out there? No tiny little tomatoes as the flowers have dropped in the heat. Bigger tomatoes are beginning to ripen, but as they do they basically liquify right in the skin right on the vine. How gross trying to pull them off!

I have another garden nearby with similar issues.

What am I doing about it? Good question.

I used the BT early on to get rid of the worms. Now after noticing all the other issues I have purchased some Rotenone/Pytrethrum spray. Used once 2 weeks ago and then it's rained every other evening so I haven't been able to spray again. Gonna spray when I get home from work today no matter what the weather forecast is (night storms). I also bought some copper fungicide which I am going to spray Sunday to give the bug spray a chance to work first.

Last week at market I was almost embarassed to even be there...cukes and herbs made for a lowsy day. I am taking tomorrow off from the market and going to work at the house and garden. Try to stay positive and start some lettuce and greens and plant herb cuttings for the fall sales. So the sprays I've mentioned are sort of organinc. Lots of people (not my customers, but family, friends, neighbors) tell me that I should be using Sevin and not worrying about it. I stood in front of the chemical section at the Lowes and it felt like I was on the edge of a tall bridge lookind down deciding whether to jump or not. I stepped back! I know that next year I need to pre treat and stay ahead of the bug/fungus game. Hopefully this year isn't chucked! If any of you have had experience like this let me know how you handled it. Thanks for listening!

Comments (8)

  • softmentor
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I understand your problems, your predicament, and your choice but.... the spray is not "sort of organic" it is not organic and I hope you will tell your customers that.
    I have a row of tangerines along one edge of our property and the neighbor sprayed a material to seal the soil on the road. There is nothing in the spray that would keep it from being sold as regular produce, but I did not sell it to my organic market this year. that means I got 14 cents a pound instead of 4 dollars a pound. Integrity of what you say about your produce is worth more that the loss of dollars.
    --sighs a heavy sigh-- I feel the pinch too sometimes. Hope you are able to get the lil buggers under control.
    Do consider converting to permanent mulch bed system if you want to be organic. It takes at least a full year, maybe 2 for the beds to really settle and develop good O, A, B, and C horizons and build a good healthy micro-environment, but once converted, you should have far fewer problems.

  • myfamilysfarm
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mulch beds are nice, IF your not planting acres and acres.

    Our case, starting out 11 years ago at ages 43 and 47, did good considering, no tractors or implements. Tried to grow EVERYTHING ourselves for a market that you can sell a 1-ton cargo van amount of produce every Saturday. We also tried to stay totally 'organic' and natural. Weeds took over, every year.

    Now at age 54 & 58, we have to get produce from other farmers that have more help and more equipment. We still plant every year, but seem to have more weeds and less production. I'm sure glad for our friends, they like to grow and I like to do the selling. It works for us.

    We've tried raised beds and mulch beds, neither one seem to work for us, just makes the weeds healthier. We still don't use insecticides since we have a butterfly farm just down the road, and those butterflies do try to help with the pollination (we don't have many bees left).

    By this time of year, I personally think, we are all tired of FIGHTING all that Mother Nature sends our way, and need a vacation. Of course, by now, there is not any time for a vacation.

    Timmy, I feel for you and understand. Start thinking about next year.

  • little_minnie
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What sprays do you mean that aren't organic? Bt is and rotenone pyrethrum can also be OMRI certified. I don't use it because it is broad spectrum. Bt is great but doesn't kill squash bugs, only caterpillars. But maybe you meant Sevin. What people don't get about organic gardening is that you can't kill all insects and think your problems will be solved. That is what people think with Sevin, but they are too stupid to realize they killed the predators too. But organic gardening sure isn't easy! Customers want it organic but the same quality as conventional- no insects and even no holes. When old people see kohlrabi with a few holes in the leaves they won't buy them. They don't eat the leaves anyway. sigh
    Well I have had good luck with a lot of mixed planting, companions and encouraging beneficials. Floating row covers, Bt and a little spinosad are my other weapons. Some people say spinosad effects bees but I haven't seen that and would need more info. I have only read it is safe for beneficials. Luckily I have plenty of bees with all the borage I have.

  • timmylaz
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the posts.

    softmentor- I understand what you're saying about the pemanent bed/mulch system. What I don't understand is what you would do, using this system, to get the stink bug problem under control. 1- I will not misrepresent anything that I sell. 2- I am not and don't publisize organic (here to say organic you must be certifide and I am not going to pursue certification.)

    myfamilysfarm- thanks for the encouraging words. I have already begun to plan for next year and will obviously need to be more pro active before problems arise.

    little minnie- Trying to stay away from the category that Sevin falls under too. The rotenone/pyrethrum spray is expensive and from what I have seen only limitedly effective. Stink bugs are resilient! With several cycles in the works you have to kill many generations at a time. Spray one day and it kills the bugs but then 2 days later the eggs hatch and the cycle resumes! I know next year row cover will help alot. Does spinosad work on stink bugs?

  • little_minnie
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Spinosad is definitely worth a try. I find it very effective.
    I use row cover on cucurbits until about 1 week after flowering starts. I haven't had any of the 3 pests on the cucurbits in the last two years. In 2008 I had a lot of squash bugs and cuc beetles.

  • softmentor
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I freely admit I have a very different climate and different bugs, but in general, healthy soil and good post harvest clean up give you much less carry over and much less trouble. A lot of bugs have to come from a lot of parents and their procreation. clean up keeps the generation problem to a minimum. Healthy soil makes healthy plants that are better able to resist insect invasion although some bugs aren't stopped by even the healthiest plants. and clean healthy beds tend to benefit a range of good beneficial life.
    I have tried to modify turn-the-soil methods for organic and never did well. I have had good success with mulch beds. I honestly can't tell what all the reasons are. Although I have studies in college, learned from others, and been a keen observer, there is such a wealthy complexity to a no-till, soil horizons soil, I can't fully detail all the reasons it works. It just does.
    for large scale, flail hammer mowers, rakes, and drill planters can do 90% of the work in 10% of the time, but you still have to walk every row often and tend and fuss. You have to become an integral part of the soil and the life it supports. Then it supports you too.
    as to marketing flawed produce. samples and talking to folks. If they taste the difference and understand the product, you got 'em.

  • myfamilysfarm
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, we've had it. The gardens got mowed off last night, there wasn't enough produce to make it worth picking and the weeds will make better bales for the cows than going to seed. Thank goodness my Amish friends have better control over their weeds and I can still run my farmers market with their help.

  • eltejano
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    TimmyLaz--

    You asked for advice on how to make a crop, so here it is:

    Get over your chemophobia, talk to your extension agent, study-up and get an applicators license and follow the advice of the university people and chemical companies that have made America the most productive agricultural nation in the history of the world.

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