I have an incredibly small CSA and this will likely be my last year of doing a CSA since I moved to a new farm and now have a farm store on a busy highway.

I'm in Ohio and have been doing CSA for about 10 years. I have one member who did not want any food last week so I gave them nothing.

If he did want food I would have given the following
1 pound snap peas
1 pint strawberries
1/2 dozen sweet corn
1 pound of french fillet beans
1/2 pound chard
a bunch of basil
2 heads of garlic
1 pound of sweet white onions
1 pint cherry tomatoes (sunsugar)
1 to 2 pound small zucchinis (costata romanesque and zephyr)

Plus there would have been a newsletter.

I no longer do 1/2 shares but when I did they got about 1/2 the food of the full share. The full share gets 12 to 15 items a half share would get 6 to 8 items each week. so the half shares would contain a different mix of food instead of just halving everything (I never could figure out how to give half a melon or half a head of cabbage) I generally pack a share with a bit more than what they would pay at the farmers' market of farm stand. I used to give members something like 20 items and often pounds and pound of things but found less is more to a CSA member. These people often do not know how to deal with whole foods and do not put food up for the winter so if you give them too much they just throw it out and than suffer from food guilt

The link below will take you to my CSA page which lays out costs and what to expect from a share.

Here is a link that might be useful: Boulder Belt CSA page

Thank you ohiorganic. I appreciate your taking the time in this busy season to answer.
Another question: are you eliminating the CSA because you moved and don't have a member base, or the new stand is too busy to bother with the CSA or what? I go to a farmers market and (sometimes) open my own stand, but find that all three are just too much for me by myself, so will need to make some changes for 2007...Ann

it's not the move as i did not move far and have the same customer base I had at the old place. though the new farm's location is much much better so we are picking up more customers via the farm store.
The reason for shutting the CSA down is because I never made much profit from the CSA and it has become far more work than it is worth. The most members I ever had was around 25 and for this to make money I need about 100 and there just don't seem to be those numbers in my area.

So am going with what will make the most money for the farm and that is not CSA

Hi Anniew -

Unlike Lucy, I make more $$ with less hassle with the CSA, than the local Farmer's Market. Although I have provided friends and relatives with veggies since 1999, I didn't start the CSA until last year with 6 members. This year I have 20. I have 3 drop sites in the Twin Cities and the website Local Harvest brought in 7 of those new members.

Here's how I deal with the full shares vs. shares: I have two long (20') packing tables running parallel to each other about 6 feet apart. On one, all the boxes are set up. I was able to get the kind of boxes Simon Delivers uses, so some come with a divider making a half share. How much people get is solely dependant on how much I can get in the box. I am putting in beets today, so with their tops they take up a lot of room. On the other table, I have divided the top into squares (with colored tape). I have big squares for the full shares and smaller squares for the ½ shares. It is very easy to visually see how much to give a share. So far I am able to do this mostly on my own and with only one acre I doubt I will be able to push more than 30 shares. However, the only way to remain profitable is by keeping your operation small with few expenses. See Sam FromartzÂs "Organic, Inc." for the sad sorry of CSAs getting bigger while the profit decreases and workload increases. Hope this helps.

Good Luck - Luddene

I thought the original idea for a CSA was that you sold shares of your crop at the beginning of the year and everyone got an equal share of the harvest. If your farm could produce a 100 shares and you sold 100 shares everything you produced would go to CSA members. If you could produce 100 shares and only sold 50 shares then 1/2 your production would go to CSA members and the other 1/2 would be yours to sell. It now seems that CSA farmers are deciding how much they should give rather than a share of their production. It is like giving the manager of the local Walmart so much money and he will tell you what to eat. If you have 100 shares and produce 500 qt. of strawberries each member should get 5 qt. I don't think it's right that you decide that 5 qts. is to many and you sell some of them for extra profit.

wjy: I can hardly believe that you feel everything produced should go to the shareholders. In my introduction or invitation to people to join, I tell them about how much they will receive each week. Additionally I tally each week's bag to make sure they are receiving enough produce for their money input.
For small CSAs it would be impossible to live on the CSA money alone.
Did you mean I should grow as much as I can and give them each an equal portion of it?
One of the most common complaints is that CSA shareholders get too much stuff that goes to waste.
I have 13 shares total. If I only grew for them and could not sell the excess (which there will always be as you need to grow extra to compensate for Mother Nature, crop failures, etc.) I wouldn't be in business very long, because the 13 shares couldn't pay my bills.
My share holders get my best, and if quantity is limited for a certain crop, they get it all. I substitute if I don't have enough and they all get their full value from the cost of the share.
Although I understand your point, it could only work if the CSA was big enough that the farmer could have a guaranteed salary (to pay all his bills, not just the farm bills), and then things could be split up evenly, but since not all CSAs are large, some of us need to have additional marketing outlets.
Do you belong to a CSA? Do you understand the economics of one?
Ann

I think I agree with wjy, that does sound more like a box scheme, particularly when talking about deciding how much to give and making substitutions. Not that there is anything wrong with box schemes, just they aren't the same animal as a traditional CSA.
We run our CSA along more traditional lines - we plant crops specifically for the CSA and our members receive a share of the harvest each week. If something produces well they get more, if something were to fail they would get none. Sometimes the boxes can't hold it all, other times they weigh more but look half empty. The risks and rewards are shared, but we have never had a season where the value of the harvest share was less than our members paid.

Whether you think one way or the other is the "right" way, I think the right way is that each farmer follows through on what was explained to share holders when they joined. All of the CSAs that I know of but one not only have a CSA but also sell at farmers markets. They still give their share holders their dollars worth, but then grow extra to sell elsewhere. If you choose not to do that, it's okay with me.
I set mine up and told them what they could expect, and 90 percent of them rave about the products. Substitutions that I mentioned were for people who marked on a product list that they didn't want something--so I give them something else that they do like. Many CSAs don't give people an option...they get whatever is ready whether they like it or not.
The point is: as a farmer/grower, am I being fair to the shareholders? That, in my opinion, relates to what the "deal" was when they signed up. There is no right or wrong way to do a CSA, except it is wrong to mislead them...which I don't do. They get the best that I have grown, and get the amounts discussed in the information sheet used to recruit share holders...actually, they get more.
Ann

My CSA became non traditional when my member stopped coming to the farm and participating. Than it did indeed become a "box scheme" but from what I am reading about CSA on places like CSA-L the oldest and biggest CSA only list on the web the vast majority of CSA have become delivery services or "Box schemes" and no long require members to have much participatuion with the CSA farm.

15 years ago when I first was introduced to this concept most CSA had a work requirement, had a member core group to help the farmer(s) make decisions and had on farm pick-up with no delivery option. many had the members do the picking and packing for the CSA pick-up.

Today few CSA farms have such intense member participation and most have become delivery services which is fine but flies in the face of wht I interpret CSA to be all about which is to give the member a real education about where their food comes from by participating in their CSA farm on farm activities. face no matter how good or frequent your CSA newsletter is it is no substitute for coming to the farm and getting one's hands dirty.

Thanks for all the replies. Since my questions about a half share and such were answered, perhaps those who want to discuss the right way and wrong way to do a CSA should start a new thread. I stand by my statement that if I provide my share holders what I told them I would, it is a mutually beneficial partnership. My object is to get local, fresh, healthy food in the public's hands (mouth?). while earning at least minimum wage while doing so.
Ann

We do a modified CSA that seems to suit this region, which is very low population density, and the size of our garden, which is about 1/2 acre. People give me fifty bucks; then I supply them with the produce they prefer until their fifty bucks is used up. I keep a running tab for each customer. When their credit is almost used up I give them a printout of what they've bought, and they give me more money. People usually come to pick up their produce when I've called them to let them know it's available, when it's convenient for both of us, or if I'm going their way I'll drop it off. The chef I supply has been very good about coming to pick up produce - it gives him a break from the kitchen.

What I like about this system is that it minimizes driving, minimizes the time I spend dealing with money, and gives people only the produce they want - for instance, some grow their own greens, but want all the berries they can get. And some won't eat zucchini for love nor money. Also, some people like to pick their own and if I know they'll be careful I let them, and charge them less.

My favourite customers are the ones who come over and wander around admiring our gardens while I fill a large bowl with produce to order, picking it right then and there. 'Garlic?' 'Sure.' 'Basil?' 'Just enough for some vinaigrette.' 'These candy-stripe beets are ready.' 'Wow, yes, we'll take some of those...'

Disadvantages are, with some people, the learning curve - they get their slip of paper and look startled at how quickly their $50 was used up; and the time I spend on the phone trying to coordinate the time produce is ready with time to pick up or deliver it - I like to get produce into people's hands the same day it's picked.

We have a 25 member CSA. Next year we will be at 40.

We do half shares by having them pick up every other week. Then we pair them with someone who comes the other week. When people want a half share we tell them we will need to pair them or we will not be able to take them. Then we alternate their starting weeks. We have 10 half shares, so we do 20 baskets a week.

This way they always get enough of everything to use and we do not have to figure out how we can cut one melon or remember who we've given what to. If we are offering "extra" produce one week, like we will with zuccinni, eggplant, or tomatoes when they come on strong, we will put a big basket out (or many) and people can take whatsever they want. We always try to send an email out when we do this, because it is first come, first serve, but half share members are welcome to come those weeks if they want the extra stuff, they just have to make the extra trip.

This works really well with us for couples.

In some strange way, I partially agree with wjy. It is true that originally much was published about the ideas behind CSAs and the most prevalent idea was that it was a contract with the farmer to grow for the members. Inherit in that idea was that the whole harvest was equally divided. This whole idea about the origin and philosophy behind CSA has surfaced for us this whole season. First, Michael Pollan came to the Twin Cities in late May and spoke to 300 people about his new book that touts CSAs. In the next four days we received 10 inquiries (7 became new members). One of these new members seems to need a lot of "customer service". Nearly every week she emails to complaint about this or that. It occurred to me after the fourth email, that in the beginning she was smitten by the idea of fresh, gourmet vegetables, found our CSA on Localharvest.com, and joined without really understanding the whole philosophy behind CSAs.

This situation generated an idea that has been rolling round in my head about how CSAs growth, development, and possible "eroding" philosophy has paralleled the organic movement in general. All the buzz about CSAs is extremely similar to the excitement generated when a new Whole Food Market opens and attracts new shoppers. There is no doubt that in the beginning (1980s) Whole Foods had the right idea, but now shopping at Whole Foods is more about the experience and less about the food. In order to attract membership, CSAs now emphasize "fresh, quality, gourmet, organic, local" and much less about equally sharing the harvest. I doubt that any of our members actually thinks they are receiving 1/20th of our harvest. In reality, this year they really are getting 1/20th, but only because we didnt think we would add 12 new members in the week before the season opener, and thus barely plant enough early crops.

I think the clue here to this whole conversation is the fact that nationwide, CSAs have been inundated with requests for ½ shares. Why? Because despite the fact that the idea of fresh vegetables is appealing, and that consumers are bombarded with messages that they are healthy, and therefore should be eaten, Americans just dont eat that many vegetables. Period. Every CSA gives members newsletters with recipes and ideas for the produce, and still, operators gets comments regarding members failing to use up the produce or not liking certain vegetables, and ultimately, throwing or giving them away. So I guess the bottom line here is, if the harvest is equally divided, who gets to compost the produce that goes unused, the member or the farmer?

Finally, to follow-up on Anns thoughts regarding the economics: this year we have 21 members, thats more than 3 times what we had last year. Thats good, but still our income from the CSA this year is only $5200. wjy , have you tried living on $5200 a year lately? Think for a moment that if we take a poverty line income of $15000 then add expenses to that of $4000-$5000, we would have to charge about $952 for each share. Clearly, few if anyone would pay nearly $1000 for an 18-week share of veggies, even if each box weighted 100 pounds. No one would perceive the value in this because we are working in a consumer society mentality that no amount of education is going to overcome even if it should be. Eventually, time changes everything, always has and always will. Time changed the natural food movement that started in the late 60s and it was bound to change CSA values sooner or later. Welcome to the organic age.

Great post loodean.

HOw many are doing a CSA? What state are you in and what did you give your members this past week?
How do you decide how much to give: is it by the number of items or by the normal retail price of each item until it adds up to the subscription price divided by the number of weeks, or is there another way? ...How do you handle halves? Do you give half of the amount of each thing, or do you give less items each time? Thanks. Ann

Hello Ann,

This is our second year of operating a CSA from our 15 acres in Indiana, of which only 2 are cultivated. We grow organically and are Certified Naturally Grown (TM). Today was our 19th week of harvest and we included the following in our coolers: Small summer cabbages, Bag of Bell and Annaheim Peppers, Quart of mixed Cherry and Slicing Tomatoes, Garlic and Onions and a bouquet of Cilantro and Basil. Half of our subscribers received Turnip Greens this week; the other half Broccoli side shoots. In addition to these items (which includes slightly larger quantities for our Full Subscribers = 1/2 bushel/week) we gave our Full Subscribers a quart of sweet potatoes and a bag of summer squash. The full subscribers do not pay double and they do not necessarily get a double-portion either; however they do get the first fruits and the last fruits of harvest and many extras.

We have two prices/ two sizes: 1/2 bushel or 1/4 bushel per week. We recommend the 1/4 bushel for families of 2-3 and the larger size for families 4-6. Most want half sizes because it is challenging for smaller families, when the adults all work outside the home, to use even the 1/4 bushel. Although, we have a few Vegetarians that do use all that we send and will purchase extras if we have them.

We keep a running tally of our weekly harvest with a fair market value listed beside it. Those prices fluctuate with availability. For example, early in the season when there are few tomatoes to be had, their 'worth' is much higher, just as it is at market. In the Spring, the harvest is very light and we often cannot possibly give them an equal share - i.e. $15 or $25 dollars worth of produce, and likewise in the summer, when the harvest is abundant and prices are much lower due to oversupply, the baskets often total far beyond the 'average' price. Then this time of year when production is slowing down, the coolers are less full but often come closer to matching the actual average price per customer per week. It all works out in the end and so far our subscribers have been very happy. They continue to come back and our list keeps growing because of their recommendations.

I fail to understand why anyone would find anything negative about what we do. We provide a very unique service to hard-working folks who simply are willing to pay for someone else to grow fresh, local, organic fruits and vegetables for them. They get to know us during the 22 weeks of the year that we serve them, and we invite them out to inspect our farm once each year. Gosh, if I was on the other side, I would be lovin' it too! How great it is to connect city folks with farmers in the country and breakdown the barrier that often exists there.

Best wishes to you and continued success with your CSA!

Sincerely,
Lisa

If you have 100 shares and produce 500 qt. of strawberries each member should get 5 qt. I don't think it's right that you decide that 5 qts. is to many and you sell some of them for extra profit. ~ wjy520

I think I understand your premise... just like investing, if the farmer has a very good year, then the subscriber also has a very good year, and many CSAs are set up like that and probably do great, particularly where folks have the inclination to handle a glut of harvest and put back for the winter; HOWEVER, people are different and have different desires and needs. Our CSA is for people who live in the city and have very limited access to fresh produce with no inclination towards preserving the harvest. (Believe me - we have tried giving some things away to them when we were overrun with produce and they have yet to take us up on the offer.)

You use strawberries as your example (doesn't everyone love strawberries?), but I'll use beets. Some people love beets, so we grow them for variety; and some people HATE beets. My subscribers would be outraged if I gave them 1/2 bushel of beets! Our subscribers don't want to join a CSA that operates that way.

It offends me that you would use the word "RIGHT" as if it is IMMORAL for me to operate my business in a way that serves paying people!

Sincerely,
Lisa

The link to Pennington Hollow Farm has an error. It should be accessible below.

...we have never had a season where the value of the harvest share was less than our members paid.

Neither have we... :-)

Hi, Lisa,
Thanks for the explanation of your CSA. I am with you in thinking what is right is giving the members what they were promised, not what someone else thinks is how it should be run. Afterall, CSA's are individual things, not franchises where "rules" are made at the corporate level!
My season has gone okay, with the last half (ends next week) rather skimpy due to the floods we had in June and the constant wet soils. I have actually bought in many items, which in a "right-way" CSA would not be necessary since they get what is produced. However, I felt I should give them their money's worth and they have appreciated the fresh, local produce even if I haven't produced it all.
Needless to say, the bottom line is suffering. As this is my first year of a CSA (not of growing), there has been a steep learning curve. Ann

I have actually bought in many items, which in a "right-way" CSA would not be necessary since they get what is produced. However, I felt I should give them their money's worth and they have appreciated the fresh, local produce even if I haven't produced it all.
Needless to say, the bottom line is suffering. As this is my first year of a CSA (not of growing), there has been a steep learning curve. Ann

Ann, Yes, the first year is a doozie of a learning curve!

One thing I am so thankful for is a 50% business/garden partner. We are able to put our heads together, bounce ideas off one another, encourage one another when times are hard, and share the heavy workload! We have 8 children between us, and they are a major workforce! The oldest is only 10, but each year they become more experienced with even the most delicate jobs. We try to keep it fun for them, and for us too!

We have 3 more weeks remaining, and the pickings are getting slim. (We also had the long, soppy wet spring, dearth of rain during the summer and now colder than normal temps for days on end!) But, our subscribers know that we are at the mercy of the weather, and they always seem so grateful for what we are offering them. We pamper them as much as we possibly can and overfill their coolers when we can.

We will be bringing in sweet potatoes for our customers that were grown off-farm, but it just so happens they were grown by my business partner and her daughter using organic methods in their personal garden. One thing that we do during the season is dehydrate a lot of tomatoes and herbs to give them during these sparse harvest times. We grow heirloom corn and give that to them fully dried so they can make cornmeal if they like or just use it for fall decorations. Of course, always plant lots of things like winter squash, onions and garlic because those can be cured and stored to give at a later date as well. And don't forget to give loads of green tomatoes as these continue to ripen for them long after the season is over. All these things are wonderful reminders of your farm to be enjoyed by them during the off season!

Hang in there, Ann! I wish you much success! If there is anything that I can help you with just send me a personal email.

Lisa

This is our last week of the summer season - slim pickings indeed! Okra, raddishes, onions, peppers (sweet and hot), leeks, yardlong beans and a huge bunch of basil will be about it. We got flooded out in June also and the ernesto aftermath wasn't particularly helpful either, but all in all it has been a good season I think and our retention rate looks good. We learned people don't like to have too much kohl rabi :)

We are now starting our fall/winter shares. As each bed was cleared out we added more compost and planted for the fall season.

Does anyone else do a fall/winter share program?

First, to answer the question, I don't do half shares. I have a mother-daughter pair who get a whole delivery and split their basket as it suits them. If I were asked to do a half share, I'd tell the person to find a friend or neighbor to share it with.
I'm finishing up my 2nd year of CSAing, with 8 subscribers, and will go to 10 next year, which will max out my double-size city lot.
My customers get a full share; that is, they get a 9th of whatever the garden produces that week. (I get a share too, and sometimes my wife complains about the cobbler's children going barefoot.) If they're getting too much of something or want none of it, they tell me.
Like "paulaw" above, ernesto and the summer drought made this a poor gardening season. And like him (?) I'm starting to think about a reduced number of winter subscriptions as I push toward "Four Season Gardening". Paulaw, how about starting a new thread on this topic?

Does anyone else do a fall/winter share program?

Currently we do not do Fall or Winter shares. I've toyed with the idea, but when the cold temps first arrive, I am so ready for a break from the garden. If I did, I believe I would do every other week for about 8 weeks. However, I am interested in hearing any and all ideas about those who do currently serve Winter Shares and how you handle it.

Lisa

Hi Lisa

To begin, let's define winter shares. Theres the one-time storage type of stuff (potatoes, onions, squash, etc.) as one kind, then there is other kind of share that is the on-going cool weather stuff that will keep producing despite occasionally frosts (greens, cabbage, broccoli, etc.). Here in Minnesota we can easily offer the first type, but are limited with the second, unless we have a good sized hoophouse. We have offered the first-type winter share for the past two winters, but we have had a very poor response. This year we are experimenting with the second-type, but I, like you, am apprehensive about taking on more gardening stuff at the end of the season cant wait for that break! On the other hand, a storage-type winter share is not really adding an extra growing season, so I would really like to sell more of them than we do.

I suspect the poor response with the storage-type winter share has to do with the stupid Atkins craze and the perception that potatoes, etc. arent good for you. In other words, it may be OK to eat salad greens, but not carbohydrate type stuff. So why buy 25 pounds of potatoes if you dont think you shouldnt be eating them. During the regular season, we sell many more "extra salad shares" than winter shares in the fall. We have had five times the requests for winter salad shares, than regular winter shares. In addition, the poor response might also be connected to your idea about some people hating beets (or any vegetable perceived as oddball), and thus, being disappointed in receiving parsnips, turnips, or rutabagas.

I also suspect there is a more basic issue here that is both a plus and a minus. I have a sneaking suspicion that CSA farmers, including myself, like to add those oddball vegetables that members lack experience with because they are easier to grow (high yield, less pest pressure, etc.) Thus, we are forced to include cooking tips and recipes. This is the good thing people are introduced to new vegetables and many members enjoy this. However, Home Economics ceased being a require high school course about 30 years ago, and despite including those recipes, many people just dont know how to cook. I have taught many cooking classes and have observed that participants are just not comfortable in the kitchen and no amount of detailed recipes is going to do the trick. Except for a few basic dishes they have mastered, they tend to stay in their comfort zone. Of course, over time they can learn, but the storage-type winter share is always going to be a hard sell for urbanites without the background in root-cellaring type cooking. The response we often hear is "What would I do with 10 pounds of onions?" For those of us that really cook - and like it - find comments such as that unbelievable. So you can lead a member to a rutabaga, but you can't make her eat it.

Luddene

Luddene,
Maybe if you doled out the storage type stuff every couple of weeks, combined with greens from the hoophouse that might be more attractive.
Perhaps when they say "What would I do with 10 pounds of onions," they are saying they have no room for storage, nor know how to store quantities.
I am not doing a winter share this season, and maybe never, but I do think about it as it gives more income flow. But, I don't have a basement so it would be difficult to store stuff in a root cellar because our soils are so poorly drained that I can't just dig one into the ground. Another grower near me built a root cellar into his basement, by partitioning off an area, insulating it, and having a window to let any heat out or cold air in. He used it for his winter CSA.
Ann

We are offering an approx 12 week fall/winter share with vegetables such as fennel, peppers, rutabagas, turnips, lettuce, spinach, beets, radishes, chinese cabbage, daikon radish, red cabbage, cale, swiss chard, kohlrabi (just not as much as they got this spring! lol), leeks, green onions, green beans, carrots.

I think we are particularly lucky in that we have mostly foodies as our shareholders and we would be out there growing winter veggies for ourselves anyway.

We don't do any storage type vegetables for our shareholders - well onions, but they aren't really storing onions with our daylength.

Heres some more grisly to chew on: I guess I am so thrilled that this week was our last week for shares that contemplating another 6-8 week run for a fall share sounds overwhelming right now. In the end, I will probably sell most of the "winter share stuff" at the market. I feel overwhelmed because I am the only one doing the majority of the work. I have one helper who comes for 2 hours on Thursday mornings to help pack the boxes. Other than that, its only me in a very large weedy garden filling 22 shares for 18 weeks (I expect to do about 30 next season). Dont get me wrong, I love it, but the time schedule is pretty crushing. For me, the share drop-offs tend to be more time consuming. They are all up in the Twin Cities, 80 miles away. Actually, the gardening is the easy part, as I suspect it is for most of us who do CSA & Farmers Markets. I also think my schedule is similar for those who do these things. So see if this schedule sounds familiar: I work in the garden all day Sat, Sun, and ½ day Mon. The other ½ of Mon. I harvest and prep for market. All day Tuesday is Market. I work ½ Wed in the garden, the other ½ is harvesting for shares on Thursday. I usually stay overnight in the Cities and work Friday morning in St. Paul at a cooking school. I maintain their kitchen garden and indoor plants. I dont want to give up the job because it pays extremely well and gives me tons of public exposure. However, this means I leave the farm at noon on Thursday and dont get back until 5 PM on Friday. In the end, I am only working 3 full days at what I love to do. Yes, I have tried to hire someone to help I have given up the idea for whole variety of good reasons excessively detailed to go into here. Again, I not complaining, just stating that this is the nature of farming, and in particular, CSA/Organic/Farmers Market type farming.

In the end, I cant help but fault Michael Pollan for not going into more detail in his book The Omnivores Dilemma. He only spent one short paragraph in the 400 so odd pages observing how laborious organic farming tends to be. While I think hard physical labor is good for both body and soul it is my principle health insurance policy I suspect this aspect will eventually create the limiting factor in organic farming in the U.S. overall, in fact it already has. Imports for organic food are skyrocketing because manufacturers cant meet the demand with the organic crops produced here. Seldom does anybody talk about the labor issues as a primary factor in this trend. I have discussed the time & labor thing with the other vendors at our market. They all agree: they work 18-7 for nine months of the year and sit on their butts reading seed catalogs for three. So what say all of you?

Loodean,
I think you've got it about right. Labor is a crucial factor, and those with weak bodies or weak motivation don't make it.
I tend to not have enough motivation, so my week is sometimes busy and sometimes not, but the CSA is something that takes a lot of mental motivation as well as physical. I spend about 3-4 hours a week just figuring out what my 20 people will be getting, taking into account their dislikes. I won't do that again...allowing them to choose what they don't want. I think I've mentioned it before that one didn't want 11 items throughout the season and one didn't want 10. About half excluded over 4 items.

I currently have 20 households, but only 13 equivalent full shares, as there are many halves, some half every week, some full every other week. Changing to all fulls will give extra income, plus make the organizational things easier, I hope. It is just as time consuming to fill half shares as fulls (almost). All the bookkeeping, bagging, pick-up/delivery time is there, without the full share income.
I, also, do this by myself. I am 64 years old, although a fairly spry one, but age is working against me as the years go on. Since this is my first year at CSA, I'm not sure how large I want to get. Actually, I plan on a maximum of 10 shares for 2007, thinking I'll bring in what I want to cover my taxes and some of the health insurance (until I qualify for medicare, but that also is deceiving as Part B is, I believe another $90, plus supplemental which can run as high as $230-250 as I understand it.)
My week: (I work as a part time reporter, mainly to insure a small paycheck each week all year long). Monday I start to organize on paper what each person will be getting and then make sure that the product is in the field to support that. Monday night I have to do reporting duties for about 2-3 hours. Tuesday, I need to go to the county seat to get more reporting info, then come back and harvest. One Tuesday evening once a month I need to cover a meeting which takes about 4 hours, plus write up an article before 9:00 Wed. morning. Wed: Two people pick up at the farm around 9:30. Twice a month is a meeting to cover for the paper, from 10:00 until...then I go to lunch with some folks (my only social outlet) but I also take 5-7 shares in and drop off on the way, depending on if it is a light week or heavy (when the half share people doing every other week get theirs). Wed. afternoon/evening, I harvest more, but relax a little bit too. Thursday, I finish harvesting for the Thursday crowd which can be anywhere from 8-13 bags. I drop 1-3 off in one direction from the farm, then backtrack and drop off the remaining at the county court house as workers leave work for the day. Another share picks up in the evening.
When I have enough to harvest, I then do more harvesting for the Friday farmers market, although I have not been going most of the time for the second half of the season because I don't have any excess material.
In fact, I've been doing two trips a week (50 miles round trip) to buy in locally produced corn and fruit, cider and winter squash, as some of my crops were wiped out during flooding at the end of June.
In between and on weekends, I do gardening. I, too, am inundated with weeds (errrr, that's cover crops, right?).
I'm hoping to buy 100 bales of mulch hay to use for fall mulching to get my perennials (strawberries, raspberries, asparagus) under control.
I still need to prepare a spot to plant garlic in the next couple of weeks. Did 2200 cloves last year, but will do only about half that this time.
Labor is my biggest problem as mentioned before, but this year Mother Nature sure put a crimp in the gardens/farms around here, washing out acres (other farms) and gullying so bad some areas will never be cropped again. I lost all my winter squash, plus soil, plus other things did the poorest they've been since I started many years ago.
So, loodean, I understand your circumstances, and think you are right. The books never talk about the time involved, especially in the smaller CSAs where tractors aren't part of the equipment, and where there is a single grower, as opposed to a couple or even a family with children to help.
I also agree that hiring people is such a drag that I'm not about to do it again. I'll hire out tilling if necessary, or fence repair, but not planting, weeding, harvesting, etc. The time involved to organize, explain, and supervise doesn't help the bottom line.
This week will be my last for the season, and I am sooo looking forward to not having to do it for awhile. I'd like the extra cash flow from a fall share, but this year I don't even have the product. And I am burned out.
There is always next year, however. And I too, love doing the gardening part. That doesn't mean I don't get tired of it as a continuous thing. Luckily winter helps get those gardening juices going again.
Ann

Labor is a crucial factor, and those with weak bodies or weak motivation don't make it.

Yes, it is and I would definitely not make it without a partner. When I am lacking motivation, she makes up the difference and vice versa. We are really able to keep each other going over the season. You do have to split the profits 50/50 with a partner, but it is half the work and twice the fun! And as I've already mentioned before, she has 4 children and I have 4 (and one of the way, which brings up a whole new challenge to gardening!) and our children are definitely a source of strength for our farm. (In times past, who would attempt such a large venture without creating their own labor force?)

Our week goes something like this:
Monday - My children and I do garden work from 7:00 a.m. to 10:30 p.m. and extra later if necessary.
Tuesday - Harvest, packing and garden work by both families from 7:00 - 5:00 (the evening is spent producing the 2 page newsletter).
Wednesday - Delivery Day, which takes only 1.5 hours, so we do our personal shopping while we are in town.
Thursday - My children and I do garden work from 7:00 a.m. - 10:30 a.m.
Friday - In early Spring when we are going to market we have another full day of harvesting, packing and working in the garden from 7:00 - 5:00.
Saturday from 5:00 a.m. - 2:30 a.m. Travel and Farm Market.
SUNDAY - is FAMILY DAY! No work unless we are having fun!

Our plans were to be at Saturday market full time, but it wasn't profitable for us to go through the summer, so we decided that we would just target early spring with the sale of heirloom tomato plants, strawberries and triple-washed greens; then again in fall if we have extra produce.

My SPARE time is spent homeschooling the children and taking care of the typical daily household chores. We sleep well at night, don't you? ;-)

Maybe if you doled out the storage type stuff every couple of weeks, combined with greens from the hoophouse that might be more attractive.

I think you are correct, and this is how I would go about it. I think I would take a month holiday at the end of the regular CSA and do about 6-8 weeks of mixed storage items and winter greens, etc. It would very much resemble our regular CSA with a variety of items that one could use in a weeks time.

I'm so glad you started this thread Ann! It's so nice to have other farmers to talk to about the ins and outs of operation. And contrary to some, I think that a public forum where subscribers and potential subscribers have the opportunity to "see" the farmer's side of the CSA is a GOOD thing!

All the Best,
Lisa

we have mostly foodies as our shareholders and we would be out there growing winter veggies for ourselves anyway.

Very similar to our situation.

Home Economics ceased being a require high school course about 30 years ago, and despite including those recipes, many people just dont know how to cook. I have taught many cooking classes and have observed that participants are just not comfortable in the kitchen and no amount of detailed recipes is going to do the trick. Except for a few basic dishes they have mastered, they tend to stay in their comfort zone.

That is true, too. Certainly the CSA must be fitted to our subscribers in order for us to retain and to gain new subscribers. Keeping in mind that we can't please everyone, but to operate in a way that is honest, organized and educational.

Here, our subscribers are educated, mostly two-parent households who both work full-time outside the home, and live in a neighborhood with little space to grow their own fresh produce. They are looking for a grocery bag filled with garden produce that they would choose at the grocery store and can be used in a week's time. They want to try new things, but generally in small quantities. We include very simple-to-prepare recipes in our weekly newsletter that are quick to fix, remembering that these are fast-food people who don't want to eat fast food; and it is possible! I'll use beets again as an example (I love beets!). Most people only THINK they hate beets, but give them a small bunch of freshly harvested beets and a simple recipe, such as Harvard Beets and they just might become a beet lover. If they hate it, they haven't wasted a lot of time or expensive ingredients preparing it, and generally the experience is a positive one for them.

We send out an end-of-the-year survey to determine our customer's general likes and dislikes. This helps us to suit their tastes. Our goal is to please the majority. The minority will soon become the majority or they will no longer subscribe; both situations ensure that everyone is happy in the end. :-)

Glad to hear I am not the only one doing this obsessive farming thing while staring at Social Security! My adult kids keep painting me a bit "touched". However, today is a new day, after all, and I had a lovely Sunday, although I still didnt get to do any real gardening. First, it was a real Indian Summer day, simply beautiful, over 80°, and friends came to help move the hoop house. We moved it out of the garden proper and to the north side. Original, I could only afford a 14 X 20, but now I am extending it to 40 long. I make much more on tomato and pepper plants at the market in the spring than I do on anything, anytime so why fight it? Next season Ill add more bedding plants, plus actually plant some tomatoes in the beds for early tomatoes for my members. Anybody else find bedding plants at their market profitable? What do to you find moves the fastest? I am also going to seed some lettuce, radishes, etc. this week to experiment with fall/winter vegetables for possible a winter share program. Next year, next year! I am not going to offer them or sell them now just play with them and see how things go. And I, too, must plant garlic soon! We have such a short season here that if you are not paying attention, those things just sort creep up on you and it is too late to plant!

I, too, am in the midst of writing and editing my year-end survey. I really look forward to seeing what people say because this year I added 12 new members (of 21) that I dont know, nor never have met. In fact, I have never even seen these people because they pick up their boxes after I leave the sites. I suspect this is the way our whole culture is going because look at what we are doing here. We have a great thread going and we have never seen each other either. I have no idea what this spells for our society as a whole, but somehow I feel that we again have strayed from the original intent of a CSA "putting the farmers face on our food" idea. I would so much like to have a CSA such as Scott Chaskey writes about in "This Common Ground". He manages a very large CSA on Long Island (22 acres, I think) where many members volunteer on a regular basis. No member has ever visited the farm, even though I have invited and planned events. I suspect it is too far and they are too busy. How about the rest of you members visit? Help?

Luddene

Luddene,
Congratulations on the bigger hoop house. I'm sure that will be a boon to your CSA. It sounds as if you are really motivated. It's a good time of the year to be refreshed and begin thinking about next season!

How about the rest of you members visit?

We have two groups of subscribers; one here near the farm and another in Indianapolis where my business partner lives. So, there are members in Indy that I haven't met and some here that my parnter hasn't met.

Since we are part of the Certified Naturally Grown program, we have to be inspected once per year. We began this year by inviting our members out for a guided tour and inspection. It will now become an annual event. Of course, not everyone could attend, but surprisingly it was our Indy members who made the effort to drive the furthest to participate. By making them a necessary part of our farm (we really needed them to come and inspect + they are able to check us out and see if we are really doing what we say we are), we excited their anticipation about coming for a "visit".

Some CSAs only sell to people who volunteer to work. That does have it's merits, particulary in your situations going at it alone. It might cut down on the number of subscribers you get, but it would sure help with the workload. Or, you could offer a nice discount to those who are willing to work. Both of you might think about finding the closest home-school group as a target market. Generally speaking (this coming from a home-school mom), they are strapped for cash, but have more free time, plus they would enjoy working on the farm to get great food for a reduced price.

Anybody else find bedding plants at their market profitable?

This was our first year selling plants at market. We started about 1,000 plants, mostly unusual heirloom tomatoes but a few peppers and eggplants as well. I'm certain we will start the same number of tomatoes this year, but not so sure about the peppers and eggplants because they failed to be profitable for us.

Sincerely,
Lisa