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madroneb

Rotation

Mark
9 years ago

Rotation is a good thing to talk about because i've seen some great farmers lose large sections of land due to poor rotation.

Rotation for me is mostly about disease prevention and preventing pest problems. I aim for 3 year rotation on everything and longer if I see a problem building. That said, sometimes it just doesn't work out that way and I just try my best to keep an eye out for any potential long term problem.
Like Sandy said in the other thread, early blight is everywhere, so is rust, powdery and downy mildew and most fungal issues. Anything that flies, be it insect or spore, can't really be rotated away from without having large amounts of land and isolated fields.
But some diseases are soil borne and can be debilitating, needing 7-10 years to recover before susceptible crops can be planted there again. Botrytis on alliums is one i'm always watching for, same for cabbage clubroot which can knock out all brassicas for 7 years (I think).
Same thought process for insects. Planting tender mustards in a flea beetle infested area can be a major bummer. Better to put something else there for a season to deter the population boom. Allowing a symphylan population to grow in one area can mean that nothing can be direct seeded there for many years. I've seen acres of land go to waste because of symphylans.

-Mark

This post was edited by madroneb on Sun, Oct 26, 14 at 8:12

Comments (12)

  • jrslick (North Central Kansas, Zone 5B)
    9 years ago

    Symphylan, never heard of them before. Now a Google search and I know I don't want them!

    Rotation is good. I try to have at least a 3yr rotation for my carrots. I have 3 moveable growing spots, so that make it really easy.

    Tomatoes, I try to rotate them, but they are my most profitable crop so they go in the same place in the high tunnel and I monitor the soil tests regularly.

    I try to move things around, but as you said, sometimes it just doesn't work.

    I don't have a real good system, but I know I will be working cover crops into this system, especially after the success so far this fall.

    Jay

  • little_minnie
    9 years ago

    I rotate most crops but things like lettuce and radishes pop up everywhere anyway. To really rotate for most insects you have to move to a whole other field. I rotate more for soil needs and disease.

  • little_minnie
    9 years ago

    And to answer the question from the other thread- no, 3 years is generally considered the norm. I sometimes have done every other year when there was some particular need. I am putting my onions in 2015 about where they were in 2013 but they have 0 pests and disease.

  • PRO
    AuSable Valley Woodworks
    9 years ago

    having all the minerals in the soil and in the right proportion helps,
    especially Cu, Zn, K, Ca. look at www.soilminerals.com.

    Cu really helps with fungal diseases.

    Dave Rogers

  • Slimy_Okra
    9 years ago

    Thanks, little_minnie. Already thinking about next year and what to plant. I went a little overboard with nightshades this year - gotta find some non-nightshade crops for next summer.

  • boulderbelt
    9 years ago

    We do a 4 year rotation both for pests and diseases as well as soil building as different crops have different needs and also add different nutrients to the soil.
    We have divided our farm into 4 basically equal sections and have grouped what we grow into 4 basic groups nightshades, alliums, brassicas/roots and melons/squash.

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago

    No beans?

    Wow, symphylan, never knew, I'll be on the lookout but sounds like they're tiny and dig deep so hard to find?

    My tomatoes are going in the same center bed of the HT next year, but I'm taking the other area I've been growing in for the past 4 years (rotating beds each year) entirely out of nightshades, I'm thinking beans but could do a lot of squash, except that I think beans take less water. I don't know which is more profitable, I didn't sell many of either this year, though I did last year, but beans preserve better so if I overplant I know they won't go to waste. Plus they improve the soil. Maybe bush beans, summer squash, and cucumbers (though those need a lot more water) since I have the trellises?

    I don't know if winter squash or melons are worth it since they take so long and I have limited space, though if they don't need to be fenced in (squash?) then I could throw them where the manure pile was, they don't put down deep roots so that would be perfect, it's in full sun close by (but not too close) to the HT and I've already got landscape fabric down to keep the weeds out, that spot is just begging to be planted. But deer, turkeys, etc. could get to them there.

    Greens haven't sold well for me the past couple of years with market starting around Father's Day. If I do a CSA (would have a lot of marketing to do to sell shares over the winter), I will definitely do them next year but if I don't sell at least 10 shares (I'm starting small) I won't plant any except for us - over half went to the food pantry this year b/c it was bolting before market even started. The strawberries are creeping into the beds where I've grown greens, brassicas, and cukes in rotation the past few years, so I'm going to keep them there this year, build wooden boxes with HW cloth tops around them, and see if I can keep the rodents out, I'll tear out the old strawberry bed planted 2012 - I thinned and transplanted last year (I have to build walls around that newer bed too, I didn't get a harvest this year but will next) but didn't even thin the original bed this year.

    I haven't grown alliums successfully - put in some onion sets in 2012 but it was too dry. I suppose I could put in some garlic now, after I get done pulling the tomato debris out? Could tomatoes be successfully transplanted into the same bed in the HT if I plant garlic along the sides, and plan on putting tomatoes in the middle? Same thing with carrots - I'm thinking of putting in a couple rows of carrots along the edges of the raised beds (in HT) where I had peppers, squash, tomatoes this year. Since the rows should be 1ft apart, could I transplant peppers in between? I did successfully grow bok choy and tatsoi between the carrot rows this year, though the cabbage moths found them even with row cover.

  • randy41_1
    9 years ago

    for me when it comes to rotating or making money at the market, making money at the market always wins. i follow tomatoes with tomatoes in the tunnels year after year. the plants always get diseased but not before putting out an initial big and lucrative crop.

  • little_minnie
    9 years ago

    If it is just the ubiquitous fusarium it wouldn't matter but for late blight, that would be serious and would freak me out.
    I don't worry about rotating legumes, radish, lettuce, spinach, even carrots. I rotate brassicas, nightshades, cucurbits and onions. Of course perennials never move and don't have more disease. But you always need to augment soil.

  • randy41_1
    9 years ago

    late blight is airborn and doesn't survive here over the winter unless infected potatoes are allowed to volunteer. rotation would do nothing to prevent it.

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago

    You can also get it from volunteer tomatoes, which is why I clear out all the debris and pull volunteers if I see them the following year.

    Septoria and anthracnose overwinter in debris and I had both of them this year (not in the HT). I had a little early blight (which also overwinters) in the tunnel and then ended up with gray mold at the same time as LB - gray mold also overwinters on debris.

    But I'm rotating the older rows b/c I have had septoria and anthracnose on those tomatoes every year, even with rotating the rows. The HT and maybe the house garden ought to be enough space for nightshades next year.

  • Slimy_Okra
    9 years ago

    Verticillium is my major worry here. I lost a significant amount of nightshade yield (esp. potato and eggplant) to verticillium this year. I can rotate the potatoes but the eggplant will unfortunately have to go back into the high tunnels. I'm thinking of inoculating my transplants with mycorrhizae and Trichoderma next year - has anyone ever used these products?

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