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anjashaw

NYC Area - A Six Figure Income?

anjashaw
14 years ago

Hi Everyone,

I have been researching non-stop for weeks and can not find a solid sense of what a "high end" market gardener can earn selling to the NYC area. I am eager to do a market farm venture.I have 9 acres in the Hudson Valley and some horticultural training. However I honestly need to make a six figure income to pay my bills and do this full time.(I hope you're all not laughing too loud!) I'm one of those white collar gals with dreams of leaving the rat race and making my "office" in the fields. Unfortunately my mortgage and expenses are coming with me.......If I can reach a 80-100K level within 3 years - I'm OK.

I was planning to do 2 acres and a year round greenhouse of gourmet veg and herbs. Some info makes me think that is enough to hit my goal, while other sites make it look impossible.Many of you say you make a living, but yearly earnings are never mentioned, understandably. With gourmet garlic farms, heirloom tomato growers, fancy flowers suppliers, etc all finding a ready market in upscale NYC, do you guys make that six figure income? Or is it solely a quality of life upgrade?

I understand your need for privacy, so if you are willing to share, a simple "yes I do" or "no I don't" will help tremendously. Any other thoughts are also welcome. Thanks so much........

Anja

Comments (19)

  • jrslick (North Central Kansas, Zone 5B)
    14 years ago

    Well if you are committed to this, use high tunnels, and you have growing experience, I think it "Could" be possible. I know what I make, not nearly that, on .5 of an acre and I am sure it would scale up nicely. Now is that amount a gross or net? I know you will be getting and asking probably double the prices I can get here in Kansas.

    My suggestions would be MARKETING FIRST! With that amount needed, I would suggest you find markets before you ever plant a seed. I would think you need to look at microgreens also and selling directly to the chef or consumer. Wholesale probably won't do it. I would also check out Elliot Coleman, he mentions that amount on a small acreage.

    I would also get rid of as much debt as possible and downsize your living expenses. You will eat very well though!

    Finally, Good luck!

  • randy41_1
    14 years ago

    I think 3 years is hoping for a lot. I think the kind of net income you need is earned by the top growers in this field on more land than you plan on using. You must account for the uncertainties you will encounter, especially in the weather.
    You would have to know your market and have an available work force. You could not do this working alone.

  • myfamilysfarm
    14 years ago

    We don't come anywhere near that. But we don't work the market during the winter months, our market is only 6 months long. And we don't have a high tunnel either. Of course, Indiana's prices are not near NY's either.

    First thing that I would do is to get rid of as much of your debt as possible, then you would be able to live on less. Eliot has been doing his 'work' for several years and is well established. Plus he does alot of 'speeches' for pay. I sat in on one of his 'speeches' and bought a 'updated' addition for the 4 season book. The price he was asking, in my opinoin, was very expensive.

  • herbgardener
    14 years ago

    I agree with all of the above. I do think it could be possible but you have to research, research and research to be able to bring that client something completely different and not readily available at the store.
    I live in a suburb outside of Vancouver BC. If I was closer to downtown, I wouldn't have any problem at all selling to a high scale restaurant and they would love it but here in the burbs they would just as soon go to Costco then incorporate something fresh and different into their menu.
    I am on a very small amount of land and can happily keep my caterer and chef supplied. Having both types of customers compliment each other. The chef uses whatever I have available and changes his menu accordingly(he is pretty upscale for our area and thinks outside the box)Also think of doing sprouts ie. clover, popcorn, buckwheat lettuce, sunflower pea and microgreens (this helps the income in the winter months)
    Randy41 hit the nail on the head - I don't think you can do it in three years - what with start up costs and finding what works and what doesn't and how Mother Nature will treat you each year.
    Not sure if I saw it on a TV program or read it somewhere where a fellow loaded up his truck with produce and his customers knew when and where he would be and would come and get his produce from the back of his truck and it was in a big city.
    I envy you for thinking this big and taking the initiative
    Remember if you think positive, do your homework it could just work and then you have your dream come true.
    Good luck

  • trianglejohn
    14 years ago

    I am very small scale but I have friends that market garden for a living. They farm 5 acres, sell at multiple markets as well as supply some CSA customers in a pricey area (but nothing like where you are planning). They have a staff of 4 during the summer, take the winters off and they make no where near what you are talking about. The business might make $75K or more on a good year but after paying all the farm bills and the staff they only clear maybe $40K for the two of them.

  • gardener1908
    14 years ago

    I agree with others. Do I think one can make good money doing this? Yes. If you had all 9 acres in production and a staff to help. No way can 1 or 2 people do 9 acres. Also, think about equipment you might need to work that many acres, as a few small hand tools and a Mantis isn't going to cut it. If your are hauling fresh produce into the city for sale, do you need a refridgeted truck? Not cheap. This was my first year with a 30x50 ft. hoophouse and a couple of plowed field about the same size, and it was a lot of work for me with the sometimes help of my family and a very bored friend, LOL. 7 days a week, 6-8 hrs. per day, Mar. - July. Bad weather played h**l with the crops. Pest & dieases are another thing. A gal came into the local hardeware store and bust into tears because late blight wiped out her entire 5 acres of organic tomatoes in just a few days. in Aug. Not being negative, just a lot to prepare for, esp. if you need the income to survive. Will I be out there this year, you bet. Every year I hope to fine tune it til I get the business I am looking for. You will find a lot of helpful and supportive people here. Elloit Coleman has been doing this for a long time. Doesn't he have a staff of around 20? I think I read that somewhere. Hi to all.

  • sunnfarm3
    14 years ago

    Your a women with no agricultural experience except you might have read a book or two about it and you want to hit the ground running making a 6 figure income?... Yes you can easily make a 6 figure income... An income measured in CENTS! not dollars. I find folks like you amusing and somewhat insulting to those of us who spend a lifetime gathering the knowledge that only comes from experience and hard knocks. If you can succeed it is a very enjoyable and rewarding life of true independence... Goodluck... Bob.

  • robin_maine
    14 years ago

    Six figures net? Doubtful. Gross, definitely.

    Bob, I'm sure she didn't mean to be insulting. If she doesn't ask for information now, before she gets started, when is she supposed to ask?

  • prmsdlndfrm
    14 years ago

    Everything said thus far is gospel. I grow 8 acrres now , but I started on 1/8 acre 10 years ago. Starting out you should start small and grow, test the water so to speak. While you have horticultural training , and thats good, it is not the same thing as running your own farm. I grew up farming but when I started on my own it was a total change, the things that can arise and happen are so numerous, from voles and rats eating your potatoes underground , to deer grazing the whole field and taking just one bite out of everything.
    Now I gross $84,000.00 off of 8 acres, but from that comes all my expenses.
    tractor payment, insurance, seed, pesticides (organic), fuel , labor, shipping, utilities, fertilizer, maintanance, travel expenses (meetings with customers), if you sell retail there is advertising expenses, soil samples, cover crops, irrigation, fencing, all the implements, hand tools, replacements, wear and tear, taxes, and a host of otherthings.
    I clear before income taxes $35,000.00, now Im trying to increase that by preping my produce for sale as my buyer offers 10-15% more for market ready produce. But that also entails more expenses. Packaging, washing, cooling, boxing, lables, and labor.
    On my farm my most profitable products are berries all berries hands down, they bring double per acre, as the vegetables, consumers are starved for fresh berries. Im looking at plowing up a couple more acres for blueberries, strawberries, and brambles.
    I hope Ive been some help
    Josh

  • dirtdigging101
    14 years ago

    nice comments josh, i need to think more about berries. just heard Joel Salatin speak this week the most profitiable thing from the farm to reatal is lumber is what he said!! i do not have much woodland.

  • boulderbelt
    14 years ago

    I have a 9 acre farm in SW Ohio, I have been farming for a living for 15 years with my husband. We rarely have help and when we do it is volunteer or intern help. We farm about 4.5 acres of the 9 acres.

    We gross about $7K per acre at this point

    I really do not see 9 acres netting $80K annually The very best you can gross from an acre is $25K (and net will be a lot less). You will have expenses for start up such as refrigeration, greenhouses, tractor or big tiller like a BCS (which is really a 2 wheeled tractor, harvest equipment, vehicle for delivering the produce to the city, marketing costs (farmers market fees, advertising, etc..).

    And it takes time to build up a customer base. If you are already in marketing than you will be able to do this probably in under a year. If you are not in marketing than it will be more like 3 to 5 years before you get the customer base you need to make the money necessary

    If you are not a market grower already, expect 5 years minimally to learn how to grow for market. This is not at all the same as having a super big home garden. Market growing is a different animal. But perhaps you already are proficient in succession planting, growing out of season and are an expert on growing 100+ different kinds of crops and know all about fertility, pests and diseases

    And you have to find the markets that are most lucrative for you. That could be selling to high end restaurants, creating a CSA, selling at farmers markets 6 days a week, or a combination of these ideas.

    At any rate, your plan has you netting $10K a week if you grow and sell 10 months a year. That is a very tall order for just two acres unless you always have perfect growing 100% of your crop is sellable and you can always sell 100% of that crop at the top price.

    Believe me that does not happen in the real world but is easy to do if you only farm on paper.

    I concur that berries are a great money maker. We also do extremely well with alliums-onions of all kinds, garlic, leeks and scallions. We happen to be in a market that is very underserved in this area so we sell all we can grow at top dollar. And that is another thing, you generally only get top dollar if your produce is top notch AND there is no one else in your market selling the same thing at a lower price. Once there is competition you almost always have to adjust pricing.

  • bloosquall
    14 years ago

    Wow lady, I think you better stay in that high paying office job...I'm laughing very loud..rolling on the floor.
    I think we all appreciate your asking about the possibility but do you have a clue what you're looking at? do you want to worry about all the plants/everything everyday if you're not doing it all yourself. do you want to work 18 hours a day. Garlic harvest alone with 15,000 plants is a couple weeks at least to do it right.

    As mentioned above think about your labor costs. Remember this..nobody cares as much about your stuff as you do. Ponder that before you hire some kid to do it right.

  • zenbirder
    14 years ago

    Starting debt free or nearly so would be the way to go. Would you be prepared for the scenario that happened to me this summer? In the middle of August we were the center of a rather small thunderstorm - with lots of hail. I lost my whole market crop of heirloom sweet peppers along with most everything else in the gardens including what was to be our winter food. I have no debt and low income needs, and I hedged my Market income by being a specialist baker, so we will get through this alright. If I needed a large income every year - forget it, I would have a bad year eventually and lose everything and have to start from scratch and find a job. Sooner or later everyone will have a crop failure of some sort.

  • davidbooth65
    14 years ago

    Not easy, but possible. The good news is that there may never have been a better time in the last hundred years to do it. Carpe diem.

  • adamsn06
    14 years ago

    davidbooth65 - What exactly do you mean by "... there may never have been a better time ..."? I think you're right ... just wondering exactly why you think so.

  • gardendawgie
    13 years ago

    If you are serious about making $100K profit a year in this business then email me and I will try to help you develop a plan to make a success. It has to be your plan but you need to know how to analyze the situation. This is not the place for such a discussion. a few simple sentences will not do the job. You must find something that fits your personality and qualifications. The business must fit YOU as a person. my email is available.

  • P POD
    13 years ago

    I wonder what Anjashaw is up to. Sadly, she never came back to her thread. I hope all's well in her world.

    In today's New York Times, there's an essay about a 14-year old young woman in Michigan who is doing CSA for "14 members, who pay $100 to $175 for two months of just-picked vegetables and herbs." She includes recipes with her vegetable distributions (which I thought was a terrific idea). She gardens on half an acre of land.

    Here is a link that might be useful: A Michigan Teen Farms Her Backyard

  • teauteau
    13 years ago

    Anjashaw,
    I am interested to know too, what came of your inquiry. Let us know. I know I'm not here to be critical of you or be negative towards you. I was hoping you tried to make a go of it and would let us all know how it turned out.

  • boulderbelt
    13 years ago

    I do a CSA but charge twice as much as the 14 year old in MI. when you do a CSA it is really essential to do a weekly news letter with farm news, recipes and a list of what is in the share. This year I started photographing each share and posting the picks on my Facebook Farm page and my Local Harvest blog.

    I have a feeling the original poster is not farming.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Boulder Belt FSI blog

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