This will be our first year using the sophisticated selective herbicides on tomatoes, peppers and corn. We have doubled our acreage and the weeding problems got completely out-of-control last year.

I am reading everything I can get my hands on to make sure I do it right. It's all very scientific - a lab scale for exact measurements to the fraction of a gram, mathematical equations for sprayer calibration - a whole new world of challenges for us - but if it alleviates some of our weed control burden it will be worth the expense and effort. We had to photograph and identify all our weeds during the summer in order to select the right chemical mixtures - I needed help from TXA&M on that. Identifying plants from the keys is a lot harder than using the insect keys! :-) I have a young friend with a brand new BS degree in agronomy who's educating me on this brave new world of modern agriculture.

I am also going to start monitoring pH, soil moisture levels and nutrients so I can apply the soluble fertilizers and irrigation water only as needed. I am buying all sorts of equipment and our house is starting to look like a HS chemistry lab. I'm even studying my old algebra textbook - wish I'd paid more attention in those classes! :-)

Who says an old dog can't learn new tricks! LOL

Jack

Jay, if you go back into Countrysidemag.com you might find an issue regarding the movable high tunnels/greenhouses. There was a 'commune' up north that used one. The issue is less than 10 years ago. Hubby says Coleman also uses a movable tunnel, so you might check out his sites.

check out countrysidemag.com and look for issue July/August 2000, Anathoth Farms. It's the one I was talking about in the above post.

Elliott Coleman is THE person to talk to about high-tunnel growing. He has a fabulous website and does extremely well at selling, especially for being located in WAY Downeast Maine.

We are growing various greens (lettuce, spinach, beets, musclun, Asian greens, etc.) in our greenhouse through late fall and as of Dec. 15 everything is still growing. We live in SW New Hampshire and we already have some snow and cold night-time temps but everything is still surviving. We also use floating row-covers over the bed for added protection. The hardest part is watering, we have to carry containers to the greenhouses. Our hoses would freeze up if we used them.

I highly recommend greenhouses for all home gardeners for use to start plants and for extending the growing season.

Tommyk- I am planning on having a small CSA/online farmers market next fall. This year I started to experiment if I could do it and I can. Of course every year is different. Currently, I only have spinach left inside my smallest tunnel. It has been down to -9 and the stuff is alive and doing well! It has been amazing to go out during the warm afternoons, go into the building and pull back the row cover and pick a couple days worth of spinach. It really has been keeping my green thumb happy this winter. I can't imagine how it will be next fall when I have more space to grow more stuff in the fall and winter.

If more people would adopt these practices, the grocery stores wouldn't sell much salad! Although, I would be out of business too! Really a change in thought is the most necessary tool in order to do this winter growing.

I don;t want to sound stupid but what is a CSA/online farmers market? Maybe we don't have anything like that up in my neck of the woods.
Your plans sound ambitious Jay - good for you.
It funny how over the winter we can't wait to get going again but by fall can't wait to have a rest!! But we must love it or we wouldn't keep doing it - right?

Herbgardener: Ambitious yes, however I believe it is needed. I can't keep going to 3 markets a week. I am trying to work smarter, not harder.

Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) has become a popular way for consumers to buy local, seasonal food directly from a farmer. Here are the basics: a farmer offers a certain number of 'shares' to the public. Typically the share consists of a box of vegetables, but other farm products may be included. Interested consumers purchase a share (aka a 'membership' or a 'subscription') and in return receive a box (bag, basket) of seasonal produce each week throughout the farming season (From Local Harvest)

Well what I am talking about is CSA like it is called www.locallygrown.net I have been involved with another grower for about the last month. The system is amazing and amazingly simple. Check it out. I think this is a good way to grow your business. Get other growing and sell their stuff in your market or get your market to start selling this way. You can do it too! It isn't hard.

Jay

Here is a link that might be useful: Locally Grown

Yes, I admit, I love it. Even with the hassles at times, I will be continue until I can't do it anymore.

If you need help with drip irrigation Jay post up your questions. I've been using it for many years.

Randy, Thanks for the offer. I will take you up on it. I know most of the basics (I think!)

Here are some of my questions:

1) How far apart should the holes be in the drip tape. I was thinking about 6 inches. I know they have some that are further apart, but I want to use it with a variety of crops so I thought closer would be better.

2) Header line. What size? What type of material?

3) How many lines per bed? Tomatoes one? Double row of peppers 2? Lettuce, carrots, radishes, spinach, beets, onions, is one line between each pair of rows is that enough?

4) What about valves? Is it better to run a long header line and put valves in the lines or shorter header lines and break up my patches that way? I have garden patches spread all around. So I will use shorter header lines, but my widest bed is 150 feet long. It has 3 hightunnels on that bed with some outside growing space. Should I run one header line or three headers for the hoops and 1 for each outside space?

5) Is it better to buy the heavier line and use it for 2 or more years or the lighter line and use it every year.

6) Is it better to put you filter and pressure reducer at your water source and then run your water line to the header line or run your water to the header line and put your filter and pressure reducer at the coupler between the line and header line.

7) What are good brands and ones I should avoid? Suppliers?

8) I will be using this inside high tunnels and outside. What are some good watering tips for watering inside. I was told that the first time you water, water a bed over night and really soak it in. Then wait until the bed is showing dryness, then water again. That way you still have some deeper moisture and you are just replenishing what the plants have used. Is that a good method?

I think that is all I can think of now. I am sure I have more questions.

Thanks,

Jay

1. My drip tape is one foot hole spacing. this seems to work for most of what I grow. 6" seems too close for things like tomatoes, broccoli, cabbage and melons.
2.I use a regular garden hose to feed my drip lines. i don't want to keep running over a header with my tractor so this way i can get the hose out of the way. in my hoophouse i made a simple header out of 1" rigid pvc with tees where i wanted a hookup to the drip tape. if I were to make my field drip system more permanent I would probably buy the lay flat stuff they sell. it comes in 300' rolls i think and you punch connections to the drip line with a special tool.
3.One line per bed is enough. if you have a closely planted double row of something I would run the drip tape between the 2 rows. If you plant peppers in a double row closely spaced one down the middle will work.
4. I would prefer more valves. What is your water source? How much can you water at one time? Knowing this will help you to decide how many valves you need if your setup is more permanent. Drip tape requires pressure control and will burst if there's too much pressure (don't ask how I know this). Also, all your crops don't get planted at the same time so you want to control the system as much as you can. Each one of your hoops should get a header.
5. Depends on the relative cost. Are you burying it or setting it just under plastic? If you bury it it will have to be heavier. If you are laying it on the ground and then covering it with plastic the light weight stuff is fine. You can get couplers to fix any holes.
6. I don't use a filter but I do use a pressure reducer. I place the pressure reducer next to the valve that is the closest to the drip lines I'm using. It is just a 4" plastic piece that goes into the header line.
7. I use T-Tape. Any of the name brands are good. Look for the length and holes spacing that you want and go from there. Since all suppliers sell the same stuff I buy based on price including shipping. there are some drip suppliers on ebay too. Watch out for unknown manufacturers with unusually low prices.
8. I use my drip lines for low tunnels and hoop houses and things grown without any covering or mulch. I don't water any differently for either. For the things I don't grow in plastic (broccoli, cabbage, onions, garlic, etc.)I keep my t-tape on a hose reel and pull it into place when I need to irrigate. I can then get it out of the way to hoe and cultivate. I plant tomatoes in plastic and then use low tunnels until it gets warmer (June 1st here). So first I till, then lay the t-tape, check it for leaks, then cover with plastic. I don't have a mulch layer for my tractor. I pretty much follow the same procedure in my hoophouses except i use a walk behind tiller instead of one I pull with my tractor.
When I irrigate I usually let it run for about 4 hours. But of course my soil and weather is different than yours. You'll find that the water will fill in between the 1' spacings and you'll easily be able to sink your finger into the soil after irrigating. Experience is good guide here. You seem to be very knowledgeable about growing veggies so you know what works.
Because there is less drying wind inside then moisture does not get used up so quickly.
I hope I answered some of your questions.
If you call a supplier (trickleze is one I have used)they are very happy to answer any questions you have.
If you have more questions post back.

Thanks for all the information. I have used black soaker hoses for 5-6 years. They work similar to a drip system. I started using these as I picked them up very cheap. It was $5 for two $50 foot rolls. I know they had to be mismarked, but I asked and that is the price they were. I bought 600-700 feet that day. They work great. However, over the years of use, they are breaking. I have more couplers than hose! I have bought the new ones and they are junk. They are very cheaply made.

I am watering with a well. I will probably have two wells by summertime. I usually watered about 300-500 row feet at one time with the soaker hoses. So I am sure I can water that much again or more.

I am not burying it, it will be on the top with some mulch on top. I am not a fan of plastic. I have a bindweed problem. It will grow under the plastic and then come out the plant holes and the plants will suffer. Won't make that mistake again. Straw seems a better way to go for me.

Planting tomatoes on June 1st, I will be planting mine out, in the high tunnels, on March 25-28th. Last year I started picking cherry tomatoes on May 28th.

Thanks again for the info. It helps out a lot!

jay

Good info keep it going

Good info here, thanks. jrslick--I thought I'd share some of my plans with you. I think I'm a couple years behind most of you here. I bought small piece of land in 2008 and in 2009 used about 1/4 acre for our market garden. 2009 was our first season EVER selling at a local farmers market. We had a good year and it left me with the fever! Like I didn't already have it! Let's see, my plans for 2010...
1) First and foremost has been to review all the notes I took while at the market listening to other farmers and most of all the customers as well as general observations of things that might work or work better. Someone told me recently "live and learn" my response was " I intend too!"
2) New goal (it's written down in my garden journal, seed catalogs, the wall etc...More weeks with more on the table...this year I had very steady weeks and 3-4 what we called GOOD weeks(while we watched others have good weeks one after another)So, the goal...at least 20 GOOD weeks with half of those being GREAT weeks(at least double 2009 GOOD week.)
3)HOW???
4) We have built a hoop house 18x40 to extend our season, this should add an extra almost 3 months of growing for us + allow us to grow salad items up into the winter.
5) Adjust my deer fencing and such to work about 1/2 acre instead of 1/4 in 2010. This will include the hoop house area.
6)Plan for future years...This fall I planted a dozen blackberry plants, 2 apple, and 2 pear trees. We will plant a couple hundred feet in asparagus in the spring. These were perennial plans to build our market offering in future years.
7) Rabbits...Ok now that I am on item #7 and on a roll...Rabbits! During cash flow season I will build some hutches and a large pen and begin to raise rabbits. Main reason (same as chickens) fertilizer...secondary reason (same as chicken eggs) another unique item to offer at the market...my observation is that if all you have on the table is tomatoes, well, then all you'll sell is tomatoes. A full table will have customers leaving with more items!
8) Man jrslick, I'm on fire like I'm 20 something!! I just need more sleep than I did then!
That's my ramble...I have more planned but time will play those cards!
Happy Gardening in 2010!!

We have been using soaker hoses for years. They are ideal, save time, labor, and you control the watering rather than relying on Nature. We remove the soaker hoses after each season which extends their life. We also bury the hoses at least 1" below the surface so water can soak even deeper which results in better roots. We water on a weekly basis regardless of the rain because most of our beds are covered with black plastic. I highly recommend soaker hoses.

I'm thinking of maybe planting some asparagus too. Also, I was thinking of hiring some help, like an intern or something like that. Maybe some high school kid who is interested in growing veggies. I'm trying to increase he amount of garlic I grow but I've found that buying seed garlic is very expensive. I kept and planted a lot of my last years harvest.
I want to grow more onions but I still haven't had much success growing them from seed. I will try again.
I'm not growing cantalopes anymore. they rot too easily since I don't have the proper cooling down equipment (hydro cooler). But I will continue growing watermelons.
The weather this past growing season was wet and cool here so here's hoping next year is better.

Randy, good luck finding that high school kid that is interested in the veggie field and willing to work as hard as we do. If you find several, send a few my way.

We planted asparagus a few years ago. Unfortunately, we planted them in a place not as good as we should have, much too wet. After 8 years, we are getting enough for our own eating, but not enough to sell much. Last year, we planted more in a better location and are hoping for better results.

I used to sell cantaloupes that were picked 1 day and I made sure that they were all sold by the next day or so. I never used refrigeration for them. Once you refrigerate them, you need to keep them cool. I usually picked up 100 or so, and was able to sell 80-90 of them. Any super-ripe was sold to certain customers that ENJOYED the really-ripe ones. Plus I had a list of friends that took care of any left-overs, especially the older people that understood and appreciated fresh garden produce.

I am also hoping that 2010 is a better growing season, not as cool. We were wet, but not too badly, maybe alittle less rain would be nice.

I want to switch to drip tape and plastic so bad I can taste it, but my gravity flow irrigation system won't accomodate it.

I pump water out of a pond with a 220V 4" submersible well pump - direct flow with no regulator, pressure tank or filter. The water goes through about 1/4 mile of buried 2" pvc into several 300 gal tanks, each serving about 12K sq ft of cultivated area. From the tanks, each plot has a 2" mainifold feeding 1/2" row lines with 1/8" holes spaced according to the crop. Each row has it's own valve for control. It's all gravity.

I also have sprinkler capability, with the same pump, on an additional 2 acres. I have 2 zones there, with 12 sprinklers on each zone. I have to run at least 9 sprinklers at once or I'll burn-up the pump, or burst the supply lines, because there's no pressure regulator. The water is full of leaves, algae, dead bugs, fish scales, etc and unfiltered.

I've built this system little by little over 25 years. If I were to do it again, I would go with drip tape and plasticulture. If I were younger, I'd tear it out and modernize it. It would cost big bucks to change it out - not too mention the work!

My pond covers 4 acres, and the earthen dam, which is 45 years old, suffered bad damage in Hurricane Rita and later by Ike. I think it will wash-out in the next big storm. I won't rebuild it. With the new state regulations, it would cost upwards of 50K. You can't just pile dirt with a dozer anymore like we used to - now you have to have concrete spillways, steel reinforcing, etc. Existing dams are okay under a "grandfather clause."

Anyway, when it goes out - if I'm still kickin'- I'll drill a shallow 4" irrigation well and convert the whole thing to drip tape.

Jack

jay check out http://www.robertmarvel.com/HomeGardenDrip.html for their home garden drip kit. its pretty complete and cheapest I seen anywhere. I am going to order it. I think 6 hrs of watering puts down an inch with the emitter size.

well for 2010 I have to decided to be a market grower! I did it a lot a looooonnngggg time ago and might be fun to get back into. I have a 1/4 acre and am going to set up a little csa for my extended family (non paying of course , I like to grow and will try to cover costs by selling at market)

Hows that tractor coming? :)

You'll love the drip tape. Last year was our first year using it and it's so much better than soaker hoses. Also our well water seems to clog up soaker hoses after a couple of years and the drip tape is still working like new. We made a manifold out of pvc pipe to hook the tapes on to, then we use a hose to run water over there. It worked like a charm and you can water different areas on different days if you don't get rain. I put a timer on our hose since one time I forgot and left one running overnight. It didn't hurt anything really but I didn't have to water for a long time!
You can also run fertilizer through it with an injector. You run it right at the end of the watering cycle so it doesn't get washed away. We used the one foot spacing on our drip tape too.
We rolled ours up onto pieces of pvc pipe this year and stored them in the field. I put a black plastic bag over each roll and zip tied it closed for some protection from the elements. I didn't have a good place to store them and didn't want to tear the whole thing down.
I didn't use plastic over mine, and I did have problems hoeing between the plants. I ended up giving up later on in the season and using the weedeater just to keep the weeds down to about 2" so I didn't hit the drip tape and the weeds didn't go to seed, and tilling in between the rows. It didn't look quite as nice--but it was effective and not too much work.

sandy, glad to hear that someone else uses the weedeater method at times. I tried mowing one year, worked ok except the ground was awfully soft and kept getting stuck. Now, we keep at least 1 weedeater running for the garden. Of course, it seems like around the house never sees the weedeater. I haven't tried drip tape yet, last year I had some soaker hoses but only needed to water the plants when I put them in. The rest of the year, Mother Nature did the watering. I usually put a larger blow-up pool near the garden plot and capture rain water to keep in the pool for irrigation purposes.

i use a weedeater to trim around the plastic I plant tomatoes in.

I tried running a weedeater around staked tomatoes (impossible of course with cages) but I couldn't get it close enough without whacking the tomato stems!

Weeds in the tomato cages have always been a horrendous problem for us, but since we went to determinates it's just impossible. The determinates don't have enough foliage to provide any ground shade at all and the weeds go crazy - to the point of reducing yield substantially. You can't believe how bad it got last year - couldn't even find the plants in some areas!! And we worked our fannies off fighting them! We were able to hand-weed a few rows.

We've tried everything to control weeds (can't use plastic with our irrigation system and hay mulches just made it worse), and nothing worked except crawling around and hand pulling from dawn to dark, which was not a realistic option with 1200 plants. So, we finally gave-in and decided to use chemical herbicides like most (maybe all) conventional commercial growers do nowadays. We will be using both preemergent and post emergent selective herbicides next year. We've already bought the chems (VERY expensive) and have professional help lined-up to show us how to use them properly. It was either that or go back to the big vining varieties, which shade-out the weeds, but that was not an option because of Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus in our area. All TSWV resistant varieties are compact determinates.

Pray for us! :-) and Merry Christmas

Jack

Jack-I think you could use drip tape with gravity fed lines.

Hi Randy - not according to the people that sell it. It requires 8-10 lbs pressure and clean, filtered water. We looked into elevating the 300 gal plastic supply tanks to get the low pressure - 23 feet for 10#!!

We've tried everything to make the "leaky pipe" irrigation work with plastic too - all sorts of little tubes and stuff to direct it into the holes, putting it under the plastic, different size holes to even the flow - and on and on and on. I won't bore you with the excrutiating details -lol- but it's either herbicides or quit growing tomatoes in commercial quantities.

Jack

We're doing plastic this year under the tomatoes and peppers and eggplants. We did ok with the weedeater last year, but the plastic should save on watering too.
What's the house? LOL....The only time of year I'm in the house anymore is right now, Late Dec and January.... In another month I'll be in the greenhouse all the time again. This year I even used the greenhouse to put my christmas wreaths and grave blankets together in. A few sunny days I was sweating in there, it felt weird!
I need to remember to plant fewer habaneros this year. The darned things went crazy last year and even though I only planted like 8 plants, towards the end of market I was picking 1/4 bushel a week. That's a lot of habaneros to try to sell, there aren't that many crazy people around here that will eat them.
If you keep saving your own garlic for seed, it will eventually get better and better. Ours is getting better each year. It seems to adapt to your soil.

We use black plastic on our raised beds with soaker hoses underneath. We have had very good results using this method. Yes, plastic is not biodegradable, but we get the heavy mil type and if you are careful will last at least 3 seasons. We use the 20'x100' type that we cut to fit over the beds and even between. Diffently no weeds, warms the soil, keeps the moisture in and save time & labor.