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minibite_gw

What's your opinion re. poinsonous plant?

minibite
19 years ago

Presently, I'm close to finishing the MG course hear in Burlington County, and as a more responsible gardener at this point, I'm considering if I should pull a recently planted perennial from my beds, Aconitum napellus, or Monkshood. While ordering roses from a reputable mail order catalogue, the operator mentioned that these were on sale for half price, so after hearing how lovely they are and easy to grow, naturally I couldn't resist.

The lable clearly states that the plant is poisonous, and I thought, 'hmmm, that's interesting, the guy on the phone never mentioned that.' Unfortunately, AFTER planting them, and after doing a little web research, I learned that the ENTIRE plant is highly poisonous and has the potential to be fatal.

Armed with this info., and having kids and an indoor cat who likes to escape to the garden every once in a while, my initial reaction was to yank them up, call the company to chastise them for offering such a vile, though lovely, plant, and even threaten a home remedies medical site(which I'll still chastise). However, I read in a few threads here, that people are growing it with success, being fully aware of it's qualities, and one or two stated that kids and animals haven't bothered it. My children do not eat things from my garden unless I pick it for them and serve it up at the table, and the odds are we'll capture my cat within minutes after he escapes, but I certainly can't control the neighbors kids or other wandering animals.

As responsible MGs, please weigh in on this. Also, should I chastise the mail order company for selling this? One more point is that it's not an indigenous plant, as are many others, but it's something to think about I suppose. Thanks!

Here's the web site where I read most of the info:

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/a/aconi007.html

Janine

Comments (29)

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    19 years ago

    While aconitums are indeed toxic, so are perhaps 75% of the other plants you grow in your garden as well as most houseplants. Plants with varying degrees of toxicity if ingested far outweigh those with none. Even a good many common vegetables are toxic in some form (ie., potato foliage), we just have learned over the centuries which parts are safe to consume.

    If you have trained your kids not to eat things they find in the garden without your approval, most of the battle is won - pets tend to be smarter than we think and seldom eat plants that will harm them unless starving or bored. I have gardened for years, both with small children and pets, as have thousands of others and the number of cases of poisoning from accidental ingestion of toxic plants is very low.

    If you planted a garden that had only completely non-toxic plants in it, it would be a very boring garden.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    19 years ago

    Found this helpful listing. Caveat - it is NOT complete in any sense of the word (there are quite a number of conspicuous ommissions and too much restriction to a specific species - all daphnes and dicentras are toxic, not just those listed), but it is a start.

    Here is a link that might be useful: toxic plant listing

  • eddie_ga_7a
    19 years ago

    I personally don't worry about which plants are poisonous and which are not except those like poison ivy. Poke weed is supposed to be poisonous but there are no recorded incidences of anyone ever dieing from it. It may cantain poisonous alkaloids but birds eat the berries and people eat the leaves. I have eaten poke salad myself with no ill affects as the cooking changes the chemestry. I also know of people who cut up the stems and batter and fry them and they're still alive. For many years they said tomatoes are poisonous then poinsettias and neither are. My singular opinion is I don't worry about such at all.

  • andie_rathbone
    19 years ago

    I don't worry about poisonous plants either. There are no kids around here & my outdoor cats don't eat plants; rather they dig them up.

    The plants I'm careful about are the ones that cause a rash like poison ivy & oleander. But as I'm not munching on the rest, I don't pay too much attention.

  • ginger_nh
    19 years ago

    There are so many poisonous plants--we tend to focus on a few like castor bean, monkshood, and foxglove- but there are many, many more. My dog once ate half a flat of foxglove seedlings and had to be rushed to the vet. Sometimes things happen, most of the time not.

    I have saffron crocus, lily of the valley and foxglove all growing nicely in my front gardens, along with wild mushrooms.

    Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Common Garden Plants Toxicity Article

  • blueheron
    19 years ago

    Agree with the others. I don't worry about poisonous plants, either. I love monkshood and have grown it for years. I had a cat and she never bothered it or any other plants.

    It's up to the consumer to make informed decisions about what to buy.

  • minibite
    Original Author
    19 years ago

    Gardening is a continual learning process! Gardengal and ginger- thanks for the eye opening web-sites, and for all of your comments. Turns out that I have MANY of the plants on that poisnonous list which I had no idea were poisonous; such as Delphiniums which arrived in the mail with no warning label. Another one is caladiums which can be purchased at any home improvement store along with many other seemingly harmless plants. Why don't growers/retailers inform the public on the packaging more consistantly? Perhaps it would freak people out too much and they wouldn't buy them at all? As a MG in training still having lots to learn, I really feel a sense of urgency now about helping to inform the general public via the help-line, and family and friends about various issues. Just hope I don't embarass myself.

    P.S.
    I still think it's inappropriate for a health web-site to recommend any poisonous plant to treat an ailment. I sent a
    biting e-mail to the site I mentioned, and I'm looking forward to their response.

  • eddie_ga_7a
    19 years ago

    Digitalis is a poisonous plant and yet it is prescribed by many heart doctors, The ingredients in rat poison like Wafrin are deadly yet prescribed as a blood thinner by many heart doctors. Most of the respondents to this post said they do not worry too much about what is poisonous and what is not . I haven't read anything in the paper lately about someone dying from ingesting poisonous plants but it might be good to know just which plants will take you out so we have a choice when the time comes. I'm laughing now at the responses I know this will bring.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    19 years ago

    Minibite, ALL of the plants in your garden are relatively harmless unless you are in the habit of randomly munching on foliage and berries. There are some plants I would avoid if gardening with small children just because they produce seed pods or berries which are often too appealing for kids not to mess with, despite how well-trained or well-supervised they are. Most good gardening encyclopedias will indicate relative toxicity of various plants, but with few exceptions will you ever find plants labeled by growers as toxic. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they assume most reasonably intellegent individuals will not graze on ornamentals that are not grown for human consumption.

    btw, toxicity is not restricted to actual ingestion - many plants emit saps which have the ability to cause skin and mucus membrane reactions and phytotoxic sensitivities. Personally, I would be more concerned about growing these than actual poisonous plants. Google searches will turn up lists of these as well.

  • Linda_VT
    19 years ago

    As I understand it, you can have a bad reaction just by getting some of the plant *juice* in an open cut, and that ALL parts of Moonkshood are toxic, raising the risk somewhat.

  • katycopsey
    19 years ago

    I am going to take the opposite side to these folks. Aconite is more than just slightly poisonous - it kills with just a little bit ingested. Digitalis/foxgloves are poisonous but you need to ingest quite a bit to become sick and if treatment is prompt you will survive. If you get the juice of the aconite onto your skin it can potentially get into your system - so it is more than purposeful ingestion. And it kills quickly - so it is not generally survived, if you get it in your system.
    I will not grow it because of the kids and cat (outdoors) and for my own safetly as well - I rarely use garden gloves so getting 'stuff' onto my skin is common.

    I do agree about the outrage at being sold such a plant unawares. I saw it first at a farmers' market - beautiful. Unfortunately the guy that was selling it was doing a roaring trade and it was being brushed past by dogs, kids and gosh knows who else. If I knew how, I would make it compulsory for poisonous plants to be clearly labelled, just like kitchen cleaners and other household chemicals.

    Sorry for the rant but it is one of my pet peeves!

  • gottagarden
    18 years ago

    I agree with katycopsey. Some plants are far more poisonous than others and should NOT be planted if you have young children. My kids are 2 and 4, so I do not yet have the beautiful monkshood, castor bean, angel's trumpet (because of seeds) etc. They are so young they do unpredictable things. I do have foxgloves and a few others, because they are only poisonous in very large quantities, and my kids don't make a practice of eating plants.

    When my kids are much older I will grow these, but why take a chance now? It is not worth just one small accident.

  • bluetruck99
    18 years ago

    i say get rid of the kids. in all fairness the plants have been around a lot longer! but seriously- a lot of cultivated plants are poisinous to varying degrees (everyone loves to panic about poinsettias although they taste awful and youd have to eat 2-3lbs of leaves [thats a lot of leaves] before you'd be deathly ill [for pets it may be less]) i think the trick here would be- if your kids are at an age where they put everythign in their mouths they need to be constantly supervised because there are plenty of other dangers in the garden (you were ordering roses, those have thorns). if you do dig it up i'll send you my address, i'd be glad to take it off your hands :) j/k. but good luck. ~Ryan

  • buyorsell888
    18 years ago

    Monkshood is commonly used, in season, as a cut flower by florists. It is grown on thousands of acres in California and shipped all over the US. I have never read of any florist getting any kind of reaction from it. I have used it for many, many years in my previous life as a floral designer. I constantly had cuts or knicks on my hands and cut the stems of the monkshood many times with no problems. While I certainly knew it was toxic if ingested, I have never even read a warning about the sap in any of the profesional florist magazines I've had subscriptions to for years. It is cut in the fields, cut again when packaged for shipment, cut again by the wholesale florist and cut again, probably several times by the floral designer. If the juice from the cut ends or smashed leaves is so dangerous it would not be commercially grown. Just my humble opinion.....

  • ljrmiller
    18 years ago

    I grow several Aconitum species. The cats have never bothered them. I grow several lily varieties. The cats have never bothered them. I grow hellebores. The cats have never bothered them. I grow a Datura. The cats have never bothered it. I grow lots of Colchicums. The cats have never bothered them. I have Lily of the Valley. The cats don't bother it.

    The cats prefer to chew on a couple of huge "catnipbushes" (Nepeta 'Six Hills Giant') and/or ornamental grasses (Miscanthus 'Variegatus'). I assume that means they will go to their preferred greenery rather than just any plant in the garden.

    As for kids, as far as I'm concerned, the neighbors' hellspawn brats deserve what they get if they ingest something toxic in my garden or fall into one of the many thorny/spiny plants I put in specifically to deter/punish them after tearing up my garden chasing their balls across the street. I'm planning to add Castor Bean plants to the mix. If stinging nettles were possible, I'd plant them, too!

  • minibite
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Lj,
    You gave me quite a chuckle this morning. I can see there's no love lost between you and the neighbors'kids!

    It's funny that you should mention the thorny plants.
    The kids in the back of my yard climb their 5 foot fence, then literally leap into my garden bed to get their balls instead of ringing my bell like there parents should have taught them to do. So this weekend, I'll be strategically planting a mass of cacti my next door neighbors just gave to me. Maybe this will teach them to walk the short distance around the corner, and ASK if they may get the ball or if I'd get it for them.

    Regarding the cats; I agree that they tend not to bother with poisonous plants because their instincts tell them not too. When my cat escapes, which he did yesterday, he ran straight for the tall grass at the side of the yard, burrying his face it and chewing wildly, even though he has his own pot of cat grass inside.

    After having read all of your posts, I decided to leave the Monkshood in my garden, and stop worrying, but I WILL move it to one location,(it's a bit spead out right now, and about to bloom), and point it out to the children that it should not ever be cut, yanked or touched because it is poisonous, but I've also emphatically stated in the past that they should never pull ANYTHING out of the garden without first asking me. But you know kids, if you tell them once, or a thousand times....yada, yada, yada. What can I say? Life can be dangerous.

    I really appreciate all of your comments!

    Janine

  • lindac
    18 years ago

    And....chocolate is poisionous to dogs....and aspirin to cats....some people are so allergic to peanuts that a bit of dust in the air can cause life threatening reaction.
    Wondering when anyone last heard of a case of poisioning from Aconitum? I never have....but sat up with a dog who had gotten into some chocolate once.....and know someone who was rushed to the hospital from eating some nuts in a dip they were un aware of....and another who went into anaphlatic shock from a shell fish allergy etc.
    Don't eat strange plants! The danger lies in mistaking it for something edible.
    Linda C

  • jmee
    18 years ago

    I'm glad you decided to keep it - it's beautiful and should add enjoyment to your day when it blooms. I grew up with 3 siblings, all rammy and into stuff, and we had a huge mass of monkshood right outside our back door that we had to brush by every time we wanted in or out (and how often would 4 kids be in and out in the summer??:) My mom, a pediatric nurse, cautioned us to be careful by the monkshood- not because of any poison concerns, but because of the bumblebees who loved it, too! Hard to see 'em when they're under that "hood" gathering pollen.
    None of us or any of our friends ever had problems, nor our pets... and honestly, I don't think it should be the garden center's job to warn you of every dangerous plant out there. Folks need to take some responsibility and do some research themselves, imho. Have a great day and enjoy your gardens!

  • beachplant
    18 years ago

    Most of the stuff in my garden will kill ya. Ain't a dead dog, cat or kid in site. Just remember the phone # 1-800-222-1222 If anyone eats anything you can call poison center, it's a nationwide number so you can call it from anywhere. The garden center wouldn't sell many plants if they listed all of them as poisonous. PLUS they aren't selling them to you to EAT, they are selling them as ornamentals for the most part. I'd be surprised if most growers even knew the plants were poisonous. Quit worrying and enjoy the plants. Oleander are very toxic, noone has ever died from them because they taste too bad. TallyHo!

  • eibren
    18 years ago

    I read somewhere that Monkshood is extremely bitter, which should act as a deterrent to anything eating it. I've had some behind my house for the past several years, and have not observed any animals ill from it.

    It took me awhile to decide if it was ok to plant in front of my house. I finally planted some in a raised bed, behind enough other plants that it could not be touched from the sidewalk, and only reached with difficulty from the house side. I think that is sufficient to prevent any casual picking and nibbling by anything.

    Another consideration, for the gardener, regarding plants with some toxicity, is that they can be a protection for edible ornamentals, such as tulip bulbs, planted nearby. I usually interplant specie tulips, which naturalize, with daffodils, which are toxic, for this reason. I think Lily of the Valley can be used the same way. I am hoping that my Monkshoods will serve similarly. We have quite a few squirrels and rabbits in my neighborhood, not to mention moles and a particularly elusive woodchuck....

  • ruthann
    18 years ago

    OK, I read all this. Interesting. I have heard of Monkshood but have never had any. Does it have another name I might have heard of? Now I want some! RAA

  • ltcollins1949
    18 years ago

    Common monkshood, Friar's cap, Garden wolfsbane Aconitum napellus

    Put in a Google search, and you will find all kinds of information on this herb. Monkshood.

  • leaveswave
    18 years ago

    Anyone know what the current kid + pet population is in the US? Now, I wonder what percentage of those have been killed or made seriously ill by eating garden plants?

    I guess if it's an issue that concerns you, you might want to take the effort to find out which plants are poisonous. Personally, I don't think it's worth the effort and cost of forcing plant sellers to label every toxic plant as such.

  • Blond_Bimbo
    18 years ago

    There certainly are a whole lot of poisonous plants as well as ones that are used in the production of medicine which can cause a horrible reaction. If I took them all out of my garden though, it would be a mighty boring and empty space. I have 5 kids, a cat, 3 birds, 3 dogs, 3 ferrets. I have oleander in my living room and castor bean in the front and back yard. I educate my family about this sort of thing and my pets don't bother the plants. I would only be concerned about babies or animals who like to chew on everything. The garden centers are required only to label the plant with the name and origin of the plant not whether or not it is poisonous. That part is up to the consumer to know. If you are very bothered by it all, go to extension and get a list of edible plants and bushes or better yet, a list of all of the poison ones so you and your family are educated. As mg'rs, we are not permitted to talk about the medicinal properties of plants, but I do enjoy studying that privately on my own and simply love being able to have God's pharmacy in my own backyard and being able to carry on my heritage of Indian medicine and teaching my children to respect the properties of certain plants!

  • midgardserpent
    18 years ago

    when we first moved to our present location i searched the pasture for poisenous plants, since we have animals. llamas goats and cows. didnt find any. in the meantime nightshade has grown everywhere. but they are all still alive. i also have datura, but my cats and dogs dont bother it. the cats eat spider plants though. if you worry about poisenous plants you wont have anything in your garden. i do love daffodils,also poisenous!
    ursula

  • Lizard
    18 years ago

    Just about everything you see growing in the garden is deadly; deadly includes tomato plants (except the tomato fruit of course), potato leaves are deadly as are eggplant.

    Truth of the matter, just about anything you grow will be deadly, as are weeds.

  • leaveswave
    18 years ago

    ...another listing, geared towards NC plants, but of course many grow in other states as well...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Poisonous plants of NC

  • gardenguru1950
    18 years ago

    This is certainly an emotional issue and there's a lot of bad information out there, much of it, unfortunately, disguised as credible articles. It's important, as Master Gardeners, that we arm ourselves with accurate, viable information.

    For instance, I'm in California and I do know the cutflower industry here. I'm positive that there's very little (none?) Aconitum/Monkshood grown here as a commercial cutflower. I'm positive that there's not thousands of acres of any cutflower grown here. I'm also pretty sure that Aconitum doesn't even grow here.

    Another example is the poisoning quality of common sweet peas. The seeds contain lathyrogens, a toxic amino acid. Lathyrogen has been responsible for hundreds of deaths over the last few centuries, causing a disease called lathyrism. Lathyrogen also happens to be found in a field pea (Lathyrus sativus), which is the culprit in the deaths. People ate this high-protein pea for breakfast, lunch and dinner, consuming LARGE quantities of lahyrogen, and consequently developing the disease. If I should fear that someone will eat large bowls of my sweet pea seeds, then I will worry.

    I know of only one book that is credible on this subject. So many others (and magazine articles) are simply re-writes of other misinformed pieces.

    That book is "Poisonous Plants of the United States and Canada" by Dr. John M. Kingsbury, DVM, Prentice-Hall.

    It would also be wise to keep at your desk the phone number for the nearest Poison Control Center and the phone number for the ASPCA Poison Center hotline (toll free).

    Joe

  • jambu
    18 years ago

    Stupidity is potentially toxic, too.

    Janine, you're warranted for your concerns; however you sound well-balanced and logical, and I'd only suggest you educate your kids mildly by saying one day when the monkshood is in flower--"gee isn't that pretty? You know, this is a toxic plant, and you guys shouldn't ever pick it and eat it, or please, if you see kitty chewing on it, please let me know! Can you help me out to make sure no one of us gets sick?..."

    Just playing devil's advocate--why should the nurseryman scold you for not specifically ask him if the plant he was selling toxic, or prickly, or smelly, or a tripping hazard, etc? How was he to know YOU had kids and a cat?

    C'est la vie.