Um, no. Telling me to send something in for testing is NOT telling me how to sterilize soil. I asked how to sterilize soil and nothing else. That was the ONLY question I asked. They never addressed my simple and precise question on how to sterilize soil at all.

Damping off is not easy to avoid in all situations. You can say what you want but I know for a fact that it's not completely avoidable in every environment and growing situation. Have you ever flasked orchid seedlings? Good luck wishing away damping off with chamomile, cinnamon, air circulation (which you can't provide when flasking), and all the other chemical free methods. Even sterilizing is worthless if even one spore gets in, which does happen.

Although I am now retired after fourteen years as a UC Master Gardener, I will answer your direct questions, to the best of my ability. Assuming you have correctly identified verticillium wilt as your problem, to sterilize your garden without chemicals, which probably would not be available to you without a permit, you will need to dampen the soil well and cover with a clear plastic, preferably no heavier than 2 mils. This plastic will need to be sealed around the edges to prevent heat escape, and left in place for at least six weeks of summer sun. If you live in an area of summer fogs this probably will not heat enough. If you are flasking orchids only a completely sterile environment will work. For most seedling plants a sterile environment is not expected, and avoiding fungus diseases, is accomplished by controlling the environment which I am sure you already know. None of this is secret and yet few are willing to give up a summer of growing in the garden to sterilize their soil. Al

I searched for "how to sterilize soil" on Google and came up with a lot of hits. Same thing for damping off.
Controlling damping off is a pretty basic beginning gardening issue. Did you search for either of these? You might find the answer you're looking for.
I agree with Al, it sounds as if you either don't like the answers you're getting or you're looking for a magic solution.
Why not get a soil test? It'll tell you a lot of things you can't determine any other way.

I may be looking for what you call a magic solution but I can't like answers when they aren't answering what I asked. Because that's not what constitutes an answer.

I found that method of soil sterilization as well, the one with the plastic, and I also found that as a method of weed killing. So I have tried that in the past and it didn't even kill weeds. They survived and kept right on growing under the clear plastic, in the summer, under the hot sun. So if it can't kill weeds, then I don't see how it can sterilize soil.

As for damping off, again, you can sterilize your flask silly but it's worthless if one spore gets in and takes hold and multiplies.

It seems as if I'm not the only one who isn't entirely satisfied with Master Gardeners. Just look at some of the posts here.

Again, I don't really care whether they helped or not, especially since they're volunteering their time and they don't owe me anything. It is after all a free service to me. I was simply explaining my experience with them and asking if anyone else had similar experiences.

It might be true that it's time to look at it another way. Here's a personal anecdote that may relate, from the last garden center I worked at.

An old guy came up to me with a fuchsia basket consisting of the soil, roots and some dead stubble sticking a few inches up. It appeared the fuchsia had dried out or frozen the previous winter - if not a winter or other period of hardship some years prior! - and been quite dead for quite awhile. Apparently thinking it was a bug problem, he asked me what insecticide the store had that he could use. I don't remember my exact response, but it would have had something to do with the plant being dead and soaking it with chemicals not being of any use.

He thanked me and then strolled over to another employee, asked them which insecticide...

Yeah, that's whatever you said for you. However, it has no bearing on reality since that wasn't the case with my questions or their answers. I don't expect insecticides to bring back dead plants but I do appreciate you implying that I'm an idiot because I dared to question the all mighty Master Gardeners.

You're a really pleasant and intelligent individual. You must have a lot of friends and they must all hold you in very high esteem. Though I wonder if anyone can hold you in any greater esteem than what you grant yourself.

If only GW had an ignore feature...

The GardenWeb does have an ignore feature, and I think it just kicked in. Al

You're right. I was in the wrong. How dare I defend myself when some one insinuates that I'm stupid! Bad me!

My ignore feature just kicked in now too.

Your question is far too advanced for the Master Gardeners. Most members have minimal gardening know-how. The Master Gardener course is taught in NJ by Rutgers but the course is equal to sophomore year high school biology.

If you're flasking orchids you're already in a sphere of horticulture that the MG program is not meant to address. You are laboring under some misconceptions about the program. MG's are there to assist the the Ext. Agent and homeowners with normal gardening issues. Flasking orchids doesn't land in the parking lot much less the ballpark.
Instead of ranting about the MG's and how useless they are, did you contact the Ext. Agent?
There are a lot of orchid forums on the Web. Did you try any of those? As a matter of fact there's an orchid forum here on GW. Have you asked for help there?
No one is insinuating you're stupid, just barking up the wrong tree. If you don't get the help you need in one place look elsewhere. But whining and slamming the door on the way out only makes you look foolish.
Re: Solarizing soil
Solarizing does work and it works well. It's great for nematode control, doesn't eliminate them but does knock them back. Solarizing has to be done correctly and works best in areas of high sunlight. I'm not positive that Maryland falls in that category. And yes, the weeds may grow under the plastic but they won't reproduce. One of the goals of solarizing is encouraging germination but the plants are then steamed to death under the plastic. I imagine one would have to solarize an area for the entire summer in MD.

Re:Education level of MG course
If the NJ MG program is equivalent to a sophomore h.s. biology course, I feel sorry for NJ. Most MGs have extensive gardening experience. The course is not designed for beginners nor is it a learn-how-to-garden class.

bboy: Isn't it amazing the kind of questions you hear working retail? The customers that ask questions and then harangue about what always worked Uncle Bubba or Granny are fun too.

Here is a link that might be useful: GW Orchid forum

Thank you jarnold and nmgirl for your answers that didn't take pot shots at me or insist that the fault lies with me (when I didn't even put all the info out there for that conclusion to be able to be drawn). I appreciated them and they were helpful and insightful.

Maybe I can contact the AG Extension (hoping they may have gone to school for plant science and know more than most (not all) MG's) or one of my gardening clubs to find out about sterilizing the soil and what methods would work in my part of the country. Or maybe I can scoop out as much soil as I can and make a fire in the pit. This is beyond my knowledge however because I don't know how far the pathogen seeps into the soil.

I really wanted a smoke tree in that spot :(

The time you've spent writing these tirades disparaging people who are volunteering their time could have been spent searching the internet for solutions to your problems. Not sure I understand the entitlement you feel for free, expert, in-depth advice. You wouldn't expect your physician or car mechanic to offer free info, so why should folks with a different education do so? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a master gardener program usually contain only 40-50 hours of training?

I'm not too interested in what you have to say, therefore I won't be reading your lecture. I hope you had fun writing it though! Feel free to reply with anything you'd like but I'm pretty sure I won't be interested enough then to read that either.

Were I to give a lecture, it would be more than one paragraph. And I did have fun writing, I always do. Just trying to help you put the situation in the proper perspective. You asked for people's thoughts. And I am genuinely curious about how much training is given in a MG class.

Umm, this forum is intended for a discussion about MG programs and volunteerism. It is not supposed to be a venting medium for unhappy customers.

That being said, please note that the MG programs in the US have very different levels of training. Some counties may indeed have poorly trained MGs, or just poor communicators. It is unfortunate that minimouse had a bad experience.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with your MG. We had 6 or 8 weeks of training. I hope my local Master Gardener's are not above par. We have a horticulturist, a palm professor and a person that has worked in 2 nurseries, plus owned her own nursery for several years. We have two people that could answer any gardening question you have because they have probably had it happen to them in their long lifetimes. We are taught how to research things(If we are unsure of the answer) and not just spout out answers. Google isn't recommended because their answers aren't always right. We were told to look at univ. info. for correct answers. I feel the MG program was well worth the money I paid to take it. I enjoy being with fellow gardeners and helping them with their questions. Happy trails y'all!

I don't think I can help with the unhelpful MGs. Nor with sterilising your soil. (In olden times desperate gardeners used steam... I don't think I'd want to try.)

However - I would suggest that you check out your soil drainage and its humus content. You could also try using compost tea on your plants to help them build up resistance. And regular side applications of good, aged compost for your plants. A healthy inch or so every quarter would be useful.

Unless you are working with susceptible plant material as part of a breeding programme - try gardening with species that aren't at risk. (No. I'm not being flippant. Sometimes it takes an outbreak of a pest or disease to spark off a whole new way of gardening that means working with the prevailing circumstances instead of flinging chemicals and valuable time at an ongoing challenge.)

For the damping off of flask material - what if you looked at your process... Have you had a change in the medium? Or your temperature regime? Or even your water source? Sometimes a step by step analysis can pinpoint where the weakness actually is.

Hope you find it.

PS no one minds if you have a rant. Just - keep it separate from the request for info, and the folk here who are genuinely willing to share expertise, experience and advice. And - don't feed the trolls.:-))

There are too many master gardeners in my county who really do not know much of anything. Others, are very good in their niches of expertise. It's frustrating in working with the ones who are lacking basic information and skills. I wonder how they ever got to be MGs. I think they became one before any type of testing. Few examples: one MG didn't know to keep seeds evenly moist while germinating. She wondered why her seeds never grew when she let her garden beds dry out, and in rock hard clay. She also never heard of nicking a seed coat for some seeds prior to soaking or planting. Another MG thought that native plants were only those plants selected to be the official state flower of each state. Another doesn't know what greens and browns are for compost. I could go on and on. I had to work with my group to put together a publication, and it was sad about the quality of work that the majority of people put into it, including some people with advanced graduate degrees. Working with volunteers has its own challenges, for sure, and people have different levels of standards.

you know, this is an annoying thread, again. A mg is not supposed to 'tell you' how to do things, but to point you in the right direction and give resources so you can determine, by informing yourself, how best to do things. A one day session on a subject does not make us experts. We are trained to know where to look to find the answers, and help others along the way.

MGs are not there to spoon feed.

Usually, a MG may have an expertise, but they are not nec. knowledgeable about all things.

MGs come in all varieties. Some are better trained than others. A few points:

1. All MGs should be aware that a positive identification of the problem is required before attempting to fix it (such as plant diseases, soil deficiencies, etc.)

2. There is science, then there is marketing hype, old wives tales, and the ubiquitous "common sense". MGs should be able to help you wade through the bunk. The internet has LOTS of info, much of it ineffective or worse, harmful to plants and/or the environment. (Example: epsom salts are touted as weed control, fertilizer for stupendous plants, and just about anything that ails your garden.)

3. If you can't get a satisfactory answer from your local MGs, ask to speak to the Extension agent and explain why you feel the question was not adequately addressed. Or try Ask the Expert at https://ask.extension.org/.

I've been through the Master Gardener programs in several states, and ultimately opted out of ever bothering with it again. Largely because of the political aspect - as a "master gardener", you are not allowed to provide any information that doesn't toe whatever the current party line is.

In one state, that was used to disallow ANY discussion whatsoever of any organic methods (granted this was about 30 years ago). Sure, there's a lot of misinformation possible re "organic methods" - but really no more than the usual gardening misinformation.

In another state, it was the exact opposite - there was no discussion or mention by master gardeners allowed of any pesticide that was not approved organic.

I briefly considered going through the MG program here, but ultimately decided against it, after having an extension agent tell me that as a master gardener, I was NOT ALLOWED to tell someone asking about vining plants that trumpet vine is extremely invasive and likely to become a nuisance to their neighbors. Apparently in this desert state no one has gotten around to officially designating it as a noxious weed. When I pushed to find out WHY this person had this opinion - it turned out that this ag extension agent had planted trumpet vine in her yard, and was upset that her neighbors had complained about it coming up in THEIR yards.

Yeah. I need to be involved with somebody who ignores good horticultural practices and uses her personal life to inform her opinion of appropriate information to be given to people who, after all, ASKED first.

And then there was the ag extension agent who allowed a "master gardener" of allegedly decades of experience to weed some of the university beds of native plants. That woman pulled up every native plant and left most of the actual weeds.

The sad fact is that more and more extension agencies shove a "master gardener" at you rather than let you talk to an actual extension agent. These "master gardeners" then do google searches, and send that to you as if it is actual factual information.

If I call an extension agency for help, its because I want a TRAINED response based on sound knowledge and scientific fact - not crap you find on the Internet. I know how to use Google - better than any "master gardener", in fact.

If it is not the duty of a master gardener to provide answers - not "help researching" but actual answers - then the master gardener program is of little use. Which, over the years, is exactly what it has proven itself to be - of little use.

The occasional highly competent gardener that you find in a "master gardener" program is the exception, and gets drowned out by the sea of people with 6 weeks of training in looking stuff up on the Internet who know little or nothing about actual gardening - or worse yet, THINK they do and pass along bad information.

It sounds like you've had some bad experiences. Master Gardeners are representatives of their state's university agricultural program, and therefor, need to give out information that is research based. I'm in California, so our answers, for the most part, come from UC Davis research. In areas where there is no UC answer, we refer to other state's research based websites, not Mother Earth News or Ask.com. Master Gardeners are extension's outreach to the home gardener. Agricultural agents work more with commercial agriculture in California, but we can refer people to them when their questions are beyond the scope of our training.

When we train people, we look for individuals who will commit to volunteering and who realize that they represent university extension, not their own biases. The trumpet vine problem you had seems to be the result of your own bias. I think morning glories are invasive, but that is my experience in my yard. It is not on our state's invasive species list.

BTW, I am proud to be a Master Gardener from Orange County, California.

zensojourner - Every source has a bias, whether it be a product or ideology. The best MGs recognize this and try to be diplomatic in presenting information. Trumpet vine may not be a designated invasive plant in your state, but it is a very aggressive spreader. If someone asks about it, they should be told. Perhaps I have more latitude since I am an MG in Canada, with no "big brother" looking over. But then, that has it's pitfalls, too.

My preference is to stay updated on research, and know the limits of both research and common gardening practice. As one of my professors used to say: If you don't know at least 3 ways to misuse [a statistic], you probably don't know enough about it to quote it. This holds true for just about all advice.

I live on Maryland's Eastern Shore -- that portion of Maryland east of the Chesapeake Bay -- and I haven't had any experience with MGs. And that is the problem. I've been given the number of two MGs in my town, called them and gotten no response. My extension agent gave me an email address that was dedicated for Q&A, sort of mimicking chat, but no answer.

I did apply to become a MG, largely because I wanted the training, but I did say that I was newbie and figured that I could help understand where the uninitiated were coming from. A regular tabula rasa. I was not accepted.

That didn't bother me too much, but maybe there aren't enough MGs...

Very sorry to hear of your experience. Every MG group is different. I am in Canada and have a totally different situation than the MGs in the US. If you want the training more than the volunteer experience, you can sign up for on-line classes at Dalhousie University. Not cheap, but we have some of the best training among MGs.

This is an old post but my local extention office has MG manning the desk. They are lovely and try real hard to help. I usually go for i.d.s when i can't figure something out online. The extention office is just a few minutes from my house. Even if they don't know they pull out the books and give it a good try to help. I remember once i was trying to i.d. A caterpiller on my sister's plants. I had the caterpiller in a bowl and they were looking in all these books and i am staring at their back wall of the office. I say, "Hey that calender back there has the plant i found it on in the photo, maybe knowing the plant will help i.d. The cat." The brought me over the calender and there in the photo was my caterpiller...complete with it named and everything. We all had a good laugh.