Hey Sandy from another Sandy. I'm in my sixties now and through the years there have been many, many people who took the time to show, explain and teach me about so many areas of gardening. Despite that there was a lot I didn't know enough to ask about. In a way this is payback. :) Sandy

I know 2 people who had gone through the program and they were so excited about what they were experiencing. Also I had been teaching bonsai classes, had redone my back yard to beds rather than lawn and wanted to expand my knowledge. However the program has been so much more than I ever envisioned. I love teaching others and have learned so much myself.

Penny

I had been a gardener all of my life since we lived in the country on a farm. My parents and grandparents never bought canned foods from the grocery store, because they canned every fall which would get us through the winter and when it was available, we ate fresh vegetables and fruits.

I thought that I knew a lot about gardening, but I decided that maybe I could learn more. And boy did I ever learn more. I learned that I did not know as much about the things that I thought that I already knew.

Learning about not only planting and propagation, but soil analysis, lawn care and fertilizer information, landscape design, and many more subjects.

I feel that the MG program is very beneficial for any and all gardeners.

I didn't know very much about gardening, especially here in my harsh climate. The local MGs had a booth at the Home & Garden show one year, and I love growing plants, so I started talking to them about their group. I decided to take the class because I really enjoy learning new things, and I love plants. Before the MG class, I grew everything in pots in my greenhouse, because I had the impression that almost nothing would grow here (or at least, the herbs that I grow). Now, I plant everything outside, and it's all doing MUCH better!

I learned about things that interested me, and then the classes that I thought I would sleep through (soil and lawn maintenance) turned out to be interesting, too. I learned way more from the classes than from all of my gardening books combined.

I don't see the purpose of the MG courses; is it for more money, or the title? Being a gardener all my life I am always learning new things, but looking at the courses I don't see anything new or different. Besides mother nature is my teacher, and she is the best landscaper and master gardener that I have ever seen *G* ltcollins, as another person who has done it all their lives; as for soil analysis did you learn something new that you didn't know before? Just curious to hear from another lifetime gardener, thanks!

Kendal

I don't see the purpose of the MG courses; is it for more money, or the title? Being a gardener all my life I am always learning new things, but looking at the courses I don't see anything new or different

I've been gardening for 45 years, and I certainly see lots of things in the MG courses that I need to know! I know loads of things about lots of gardening tasks and principles, but have hardly scratched the surface in terms of in-depth knowledge. Trial and error is all well and good, but other people's experience at things means that I don't have to experience everything myself.

As for the why -- it's certainly not for money (it's all outgo), nor for the title (I have others that were much harder to earn). It's for love of learning, love of teaching, and fellowship of gardening friends.

Perhaps it isn't for you -- I think you've got to approach it with a thirst for knowledge that I don't detect from your post. I know some wonderful gardeners who are not interested in the courses, and that's okay, too. But for those of us who, despite a lifetime of hands-on gardening, realize that there's a lot we don't know, and perhaps time is growing shorter in which to learn it, it's just right.

Pat

For me, gardening is an on-going learning ordeal. I learn by going to classes, programs, seminars, research and teaching. I just finished a 3-day intensive tree clinic where I learned soooooo much.

First of all, I was raised in northwestern Indiana, moved to Florida, then to Houston, and finally I'm on the Texas Coastal Bend. Obviously all these areas have different ways to garden, so I had to learn the new ways in each area.

What the MG program has done for me is to help me learn which is the best way of gardening for me on a salt water bay. I know that gardening in Houston varies from the NW side of the city to the SE side of the city. Thus, when my sister asks about things in her SE side of Houston, I tell her one thing. When my friend that lives on the NW side of Houston asks about gardening, I can tell her what would work best for her.

And I have really enjoyed getting to meet new people that are also interested in gardening.

In addition, it has paved the way for me to teach herbs, which are my favorites.

The money was insignificant considering the amount of knowledge I acquired. In fact, I'm trying to get my Mom and Aunt to take the class through the Purdue MG program. They tell me that they know what they are doing, but when I ask them about things, such as what is the ph of their soil, they have no idea.

For me, MG has been the best thing that I did in the past 7 years other than becoming a grandmother! HA!

Kendal, the Master Gardeners are all volunteers. We have a running joke at the extension office. When one of the MGs does something especially well or is "above the call" helpful, we tell them they are going to get a raise - double their salary! Since we don't get a salary... ;-)

And the title really means "master researcher" more than master gardener. There is nobody that knows everything about any phase of gardening and we are constantly having to learn more in order to help others. We have millions of resources available to us (and anyone else if they know where to look) to find answers for the most exotic questions you can imagine. From how and when to prune azaleas to tissue culture techniques, we get them all.

Master Gardeners are really people helpers. Regardless of whether they are pulling weeds in a demonstration garden or answering questions at a clinic or working with the 4H to teach youngsters about propagation, they are educators at heart. If that is what you want to do, then by all means take the course. Even if you only give the first year's hours of volunteer time, I feel anyone who likes to garden can benefit from the experience. I was farm raised and have gardened all my life and I learned so much more than I expected, and I'm still learning every time I volunteer.

I think what I learned from the MG course was the vast amount of stuff that I DIDN'T know & I'd been gardening for 25 years when I took the course.

I believe that the official reason for the course is so the MG can hope to reasonably answer the phone calls that come into the extension office, which, as I understand it, was the original purpose of the program.

Kendal, I was very disappointed in the first few days of the course, but those lectures were all by other Master Gardeners who dabbled in a particular area. It really felt like a waste of my time and money.

I think I was expecting university level education, even though I knew the course is uncredited. I wasn't exactly taking notes.

However, in the past couple of days we have had lecturers who hold doctorates in their fields, and there really was knowledge being passed on. Suddenly my hand was dropping off as I scribbled away.

Plus there was a hands-on activity by a Master Gardener in plant propogation which was extraordinary. Who knew it was so easy-peasy? Even people who regularly propogate were impressed with the method demonstrated.

So, all in all, it is a mixed bag.

If you happen to know a lot about gardening, you will find there are areas in which it is very ho-hum, why on earth am I sitting here?

But there may also be some areas you don't know that much about, and that's where you start to score.

I took the course because I thought I would learn a lot and because it is a formal route to beautifying my home town. Most fortunately I have a great county extension agent who is happy to let me tackle the job - there are many other county extension agents who frown on this type of activity, so be sure to be clear about your goals when interviewing with them.

I'm not entirely sure the course alone is worth it (a couple of other people have confessed they were also thinking of dropping out and a few already have), but expect all together it will be once volunteering.

It has also been very good getting to know like-minded people in the counties around us. There are about 40 people in my class, with three continents represented, too.

Gardener Sandy, thank you for mentioning the volunteer work! I took the course both to learn more about all aspects of gardening, AND to help out in my community. Since gardening is already a passion, being a MG has helped me to help others in an area I love.
I have helped a local hospice establish a memorial garden for their families; cleaned up an 18th century cemetary; weeded a "dyer's" garden, while learning about the dyes they make with the plants; written about gardening for the local newspaper; and answered many questions for people, from the very basic, to the very technical.
I have learned from people every step of the way. And I have been amazed at the gratitude people express for my help. Being a MG has been the most rewarding experience of my life.
LMD

LMD, thank YOU for mentioning the gratitude of the people we help. In my five years volunteering, I have only had one person who wasn't appreciative of my efforts and that person was looking for an instant answer to a very technical question that I needed to research.

Ah, thank you for all your replies, like I said I was curious to know the value of said courses *G* Volunteering is always a honorable endeaver.

Kendal

I have been teaching the budding and grafting portion of the MG program in our area for years. In the MG program you realize how much you did not know and one of the most rewarding part is you meet a lot of people and make friends along with the knowlede you acquire about plants and gardening.

When we moved into a new house 8 years ago there was nothing growing. I took the course to help me avoid major mistakes. And it was a great decision. The real learning starts after the formal training ends. Being around knowledgable people who are willing to share both information and plants is great. We had the semi-anual plant exchange last night. It's really fun and a great way to trade what you have lots of for things you's like to try.

Retired from the Oklahoma Highway Patrol in January of 2004. Never had the time to work in the garden as I wanted to. I really enjoyed the course and am looking forward to the comunity service. I completed the course one week ago in Durant. I really didn't know what I was doing in the garden and was really excited about enrolling in the class. I learned a lot and have a lot to learn. We had an excellent group (28 members) and really had some fun. The instructors were top notch. The lectures were fast, but we had good reference material. The main thing is that I know where to go to find what is needed. I am sure a lot of knowledge will be gained from the forums. I recommend the Master Gardener program for anyone who enjoys working outdoors and are willing to help others.

Welcome to the GW, trooper. You'll find this forum to be an excellant source to info. Be sure to check 'new to gardening' and the 'tips & techniques' forum also.

Larry

I came across this forum and decided to take a look, as I have met some MG's in recent years. You would have to ask me why I HAVEN't taken the course. I've asked how long it is and what's in it, and I'm not impressed. I've grown veggies for 30 years, grafted for nearly 20, I'm in Seedsavers and NAFEX, I'm interested in soil chemistry, and eat and grow plants that most gardeners will never hear of. I suppose the MG is a good one, and helpful, but I tend to find it irritating. Every year there are some folks at the co fair who are so proud to be Master Gardeners because they have taken some dang 14 week class. I can't help myself, if I say anything it's to ask questions that I know they can't answer. "What do you know about cutshort beans?" Do you know of any local persimmons I should be grafting from?" (Up here, that means native ones) "I have this problem with yellow stripes in my corn every summer. We have high organic matter, the pH is a trifle high, and when it rains a lot we get an Mn deficiency. Do you know what I can do about it except throwing sulfur around? It works, but it's not permanent." "Who's growing Grimes Golden apples around here?" (I asked that one of everyone for 2 years before I found a tree to graft from. It must be a little out of fashion) "How do the Badgersett hazels do here?"
If I lived close to town, I guess I could take the classes and just read a book during them. If there's some kind of test I am sure I could pass it without going to any of the classes. I don't know anything about lawns (though I know a WHOLE LOT about weeds including recipes) and chemical fertilizers or sprays, and couldn't care less about them. I am not too much interested in ornamentals, (except for old roses!)though I could hold my own as long as we don't have to get into cultivars too much. Like all NAFEXers, I like giving advice and sharing plants, but the MG exclusivity means that I am automatically considered unworthy. If we had a local garden club to join, that would be fine, but we don't so there are only the MG bunch of which I am not a member, and am not likely to become one. The mention of real experts teaching classes piqued my interest, but then I realized we wouldn't have them here. I mean, I have to explain to lifelong farmers here why they can't just give me 3 ears of corn to get a start of their line of OP corn. It would be pretty basic stuff in the MG classes around here. Donna

I took the course, because I had moved, and the climate was different. I moved again twice now, and I am considering taking the course again.

I made GREAT friends, learned a lot, and the title sounds nice to some, and like a turn off to others. I didn't take the course for the title.

Personally, I know I can learn more, by taking the class again.

Moni

Donna, if you're convinced there's nothing in the MG program for you, I sad to say there there won't be. I've been gardening for 52 years...grew up on a very large cash-grain crop & cattle farm...had my own arborist business for 3 years (long time ago)...and now have a business building wooden garden structures. I walked into the MG program with VERY high expectations. You know what? They EXCEEDED my expectations. Do I know everything? Hardly. Mostly, I'm bewildered by how much there is still to learn. There's more plant science than one old man can assimilate in but a single lifetime.

Before I started the MG program, herbs didn't interest me. But, I learned what I could. This fall, I spaded up a spot for next year's herb garden. Pesticides, entomology & plant pathology were far beyond this old man's grasp before starting the MG program. Now, I can at least ask intelligent questions of those who do know.

I seriously doubt that professors at the University of Tennessee are any less astute than anywhere else. The staff at KSU certainly is totally awesome.

This was great, know for sure I am taking the MG class this winter, and can't wait, have learned so much from the 2 day gardening seminars they have sponsered here. I think they are all a wonderful helpful group, at least the ones in AZ Highlands

I love hearing your answers!

Let me tell you why TEACHING Master Gardeners is the highlight of my year. It's about people. It is having people come up to me and say "Wow! That's what I have been doing wrong." Sure we discuss pH, lawn care, and bug ID. But we also talk about saving money. We talk about how to work around things like arthritis and disabilities. And this year I watched as a bunch of strangers rallied around someone who found they had cancer. I really think my classes learn more from each other then they do from me and I would not have it any other way.

And Donna_in_TN, Master Gardeners is as much about building the community and helping people as it is about teaching gardening. If you haven't guessed, I am a County Agricultural Educator. If your local MG group has an "attitude", I apologize. You might want to have a conversation with your local Extension Educator or Agent. And while you are at it, you might want to address your harder questions toward him or her. I am sure I don't know all the answers, but I have a terrific support network of Specialists, other Educators, and even MG's who help me out all the time. I am sure the folks in your state are the same.

Take care!
e.

Oh yes, the extension guys are usually wonderful here, and no, I'm not saying that the MG's here have an attitude problem, it's me with the problem. There's this label that the MG's have that says they know more than I do and that I am not worthy to join the MG club, the only local garden "club", without taking classes 20 miles from home that I really think aren't going to be all that great. TEACHING gardening is one of my recurrent fantasies, I love to teach and I'm good at it, I do a lot of it in my job. IF the days I am in that town were to change, I probably would get around to taking the MG classes and I'd probably love it, at least the people and the discussions. But I kinda think the class material is going to be pretty ho-hum stuff. And I am bad for asking a teacher all kinds of esoteric stuff that the class doesn't know about, so if I am good and don't ask my questions, I'm bored. (This doesn't mean I know everything, I have certainly taken my share of classes in other subjects in which I was below average and struggled to keep up.)
You know though, I suppose it would be possible to talk to the co agent, (who definitely remembers what kinds of questions I ask), and see if there is a way I could simply go to some of the meetings, as a guest or something. I am sure I would enjoy them. Again, the question remains as to they occur on a day I am in town. When I'm home, you can't get me out of the garden to go anywhere...

Hi Donna,
You said you like to teach and are good at it. Then you need to look into taking the EMG training. The extension office loves gardeners who can talk to a group. Some people can't address a group because they get too nervous. Try to get rid of your attitude about the group. I am an ordinary person who loves to garden and took the training to learn more and give back to my community as a volunteer. I have always loved working with children so I am a 4-H gardening leader. The biggest thing I learned in my classes was that there is so much more to learn. And I am eager to do that. Speaking of teaching, I will be doing seven workshops on the method of winter sowing this January and February. Not because I am an EMG but because I learned the method on the Winter Sowing forum, practiced it last winter, worked out the bugs and love to share my knowledge. So think about it Donna, you might really enjoy the training. And you will meet the nicest people!
Tina from Johnson County Kansas

"And the title really means "master researcher" more than master gardener. There is nobody that knows everything about any phase of gardening and we are constantly having to learn more in order to help others."

Happy to hear a MG say that. I've run into too many who throw their title around like it is a doctorate or something, act like they know everything. Like many of you said, you've been gardening for many years, and still have a lot to learn.

Hey Donna, I think it is wonderful that you know as much as you do. I'm sorry that your community won't have the chance to share in that knowledge. I hope that as new methods and information are developed that you will have the same access that the MGs will have through the updates and continuing education they participate in. One of the things I enjoy most in the program is the notification we get from researchers in contact with the Extension Service as new information is developed. I learned how to propagate plants in test tubes a while back so I could teach other MGs how to do it. I learned how to build and maintain an ornamental pond for our Display Gardens.I also researched and built a greenroof to demonstrate to visitors. I am sure I could have done those projects and others without being a Master Gardener and maybe I could have passed that information on to others but it sure wouldn't have been the dozens and sometime hundreds that I have had a chance to talk to. Yes, I will admit it is marvelous to know all that stuff but being able to pass that info on to others is the real ego boost. Recently I needed to learn a great deal about the Emerald Ash Borer that has invaded this part of the country so I could answer the questions that came in about it. Much of that info came in from other Extension Offices and I was able to answer close to 50 inquiries about that problem that came in on the hotline. I am only one of many who answer those calls so you can multiply what I got by about 10 times. Does that count as worthwhile? When I was asked to teach some of the classes I am sure that I did not perform as well as a professional instructor but I did get better with time. I seriously doubt that the program would be to your taste since you are only interested in what you can get out of it and it sounds like you are more interested in telling others that you don't need to learn any more than finding out what you might not know. To be blunt, I think the program is better off without your participation. Sandy

Be gentle, Sandy. To be perfectly honest, I looked into the course at first to see what I could learn, not especially to help others. But when I *learned* how incredibly beneficial the MGs were to the community, I was hooked and haven't missed a beat since! To be able to combine something I love with being of service to others has been an incredible boost, both to my gardening knowledge and to my self esteem. Not everybody comes to the program for altruistic reasons but many discover how wonderful it is to give to others. I recommend the program to everybody who likes gardening with the hope that they too will be bitten by the "service" bug and become active volunteers.

To Donna I'd like to say that I was raised on a farm and have gardened all my life and the classes were not boring or "ho-hum" at all. Yes, some material I already knew but the presentations were excellent and often came at the info from a different angle than I had experienced before so it really was a new approach. And there is absolutely no one who can't learn more about this immense subject. The class instruction time can't begin to cover even the tip of the iceberg so our own research time fills in the other 90% on so many topics. But the class time gives us the direction we need to get started on that research. And the reward of being of help to others is the best part. Not everybody in our community or yours has your base of knowledge of horticulture. With the training provided by the MG program, you too could help your neighbors be better, more environmentally conscience gardeners. If you get the opportunity to take the course, I think you will have a totally different impression of the program when you are finished.

Hey Sandy, maybe I owe Donna an apology but I keep hearing MGs and the MG program put down for attitude, ignorance and just because. I had not heard the complaints until recently and they got old quick. If a volunteer program isn't to your taste just don't get involved. The program makes no claim to be altruistic. It is a device to help Ext. agents be more effective in working with the community without dipping into funds that are streching thinner every day. The pats on the back and the ego boosts and the gratitude of our contacts are the only pay we are going to get and just as long as that is enough the program is working the way it was intended. If you think it is not effective use of tax dollars then complain to your senator and Representatives. I think the Ext. serves a good purpose for the taxpayers and usually the MGs wind up paying their own way and then some. The first MG I met was young, enthusiastic and woefully ignorant of a lot that I knew about gardening, but she said that she didn't know yet how much she didn't know but the contacts she had were teaching her something new every day and the program make her feel good about something she had a passon for. I feel the same way. Sandy

This has been some interesting reading! I've been gardening for 45years+ and always thought I was a little more knowledgeable than the average. It's not because I think extremely smart. I read, read, read and experiment with my gardens. I finally decided to take the Master Gardener program. What a beautiful experience. I not only learned from the class, but I did most of my volunteer work at our 10 year old Arboretum. It was so neat working with other gardners. We all have those special areas in our gardens. Hostas, Herbs, Perennial beds to orchards and shrubs. I plan on spending as much time as I can in the Arboretum in 2005. I think this whole Master Gardener program is a win win deal. I think I know how Donna feels. But I've learned that the attitude about the "know it all" Master Gardeners was really only my know it all attitude.

how long is this class and did you all take it through your county extension agent. thanks

Jerrie, our classes are three hours a day, three days a week, for seven weeks and they run from early February till the end of March. Our extension agent is responsible for the entire course and teaches some of the classes but we have a number of different instructors for the different subjects.

Hello;
I'm about to begin a MG course here in NJ, and my hope is to, of course, become a more accomplished gardener, but to perhaps use the knowledge in some way professionally in the future, but I'm not sure where all of this will take me. Has anyone done this? i.e. continued in Landscape Designing, etc. However, it seems that it's frowned upon to use the term MG for professional gain-which I would never do if it's inappropriate. I suppose it's like taking a cooking course, and then calling yourself a professional chef.

My neighbor is a landscaper, but doesn't seem to have the same passion about gardenening that I do. Combining the passion with the structure would be fantastic. Would love to here comments from anyone with career aspirations. Thanks!

I think you are looking at it right . Take the course, learn something, repay the volunteer hours, then when the time comes, transition into your new profession. You are ethically correct to not promote yourself as say: Sally Fields, Landscaper and Master Gardener but if you apply for a position as a Greenhouse Manager or such, I see nothing wrong with putting on your application that you have had Master Gardener training. Just don't wait till you are too old to start a new profession as the passion may be there but the strength and endurance not. I am thinking there will some who will disagree with me on this. Hey, free speech and regardless of which way you look at it, it happens - See forum titled Master Gardener Attrition.

This has been very interesting. Like I say, I think the problem has been that there is simply no garden club in this small town, only the exclusive MG group. It is true that public speaking doesn't bother me, I got rooked into doing the speech for a local pawpaw festival last fall, and it looks like my arm will be twisted into doing a wild plant walk and talk for a private school. That might whet my appetite for more. But seeing as I live so far from town, I have mostly shared by writing, my article on cutshort beans came out this fall in SSE. It's not that I'm reclusive, not at all, just that I live 20 miles out, and when I get home in my garden, you can't get me to leave again. But I do write in the evenings or rainy days, I don't have to be somewhere at a certain time or place for that. Someone at the newspaper tried to get me a regular column a few years ago, that failed and I notice tht they are running columns by MG's and sometimes taken from books or ext. office info. I might see about throwing in one or two myself. I was intrigued to read that there'a a winter sowing forum, that someone in KANSAS can do. I always start planting in January, will go have to see if they have some new tricks for me. Anyway, I'll check back here from time to time.

I took the course to meet other gardeners in my area and to learn more about gardening.
I was greatly disappointed!!
The classes were ho-hum and boring to say the least. We had horrible speakers who hummed and mumbled their way through an hour and a half lecture. I have come to realize the mastergardener classes are very different in every state. The course I took was only one night a week for two hours for 12 weeks. Then we had to serve at least 40 hours of volunteer work in the community.
The manual that I got is wonderful. It is loaded with a lot of useful info. I agree that a mastergardener is a researcher. I love to look up plants and learn about them and then share that knowledge with other gardeners. I also love to ask questions of other gardeners. Some of the most useful info comes from people who are already growing a plant.
As for the volunteer work, I have always done a lot of volunteer work, even before the mastergardener classes.
shelby