Kathy

At any rate, if I do see them, I'll probably use something garlicky and soapy, and if that doesn't work, I'll switch to something with pyrethrin. I hope it doesn't come to that. I've been told that planting a cover crop of rye is a good way to keep the bugs from overwintering. Besides, it sure adds alot of nitrogen to the soil.

Silver Queen

I have only six cucumber vines (on our new trellis which I made and am proud of) and I have hand-picked and killed several striped cucumber beetles. I also saw some leaf hoppers that avoided my capture by hopping. And a few grasshoppers. My cucumbers seem to be attractive to a number of pests.

Incidentally, they are seedless Diva cucumbers from Johnny's and I really like them. Tasty, burpless, and entirely seedless because they are the only cucumber variety I am growing. I have already eaten one, and they are great. Just hope I can keep the bugs at bay.

I am a "no holds barred" kind of gardener and would use a giant flame thrower if the occasion called for it. But I don't want to poison anyone, so I won't be spraying or applying anything dangerous in the garden or lawn.

With only six cucumber vines, I can do a lot of hand picking if I can just catch the little guys. Those leaf hoppers and flea beetles and grasshoppers can be very frustrating, so hand picking has its limits. I pretty much wiped out our Japanese Beetles last year by hand picking hundreds of them. Every morning and afternoon I cleaned the garden of them. This year I found only one so far and make quick work of it.

Just out of curiosity, and not that it matters, but are you talking about the striped cucumber beetle or the spotted cucumber beetle? I haven't seen any spotted cucumber beetles here in Maine yet, but they were my nemesis in my Fort Worth garden, along with squash bugs which I killed by the thousands with Sevin sprays in the morning, but a new batch of squash bugs flew in by afternoon.

Incidentally, as a "strictly organic" gardener, would you consider a large blow torch or garden flame thrower as a fair weapon to use against pests? Do organic gardeners have some sort of "Geneva convention" to govern what they can use?

Obviously the word "organic" is not a proper distinction, because you would freely use inorganics such as sulfur, dolomitic limestone, or greensand and you would not use organics such as malathion or sevin.

MM

"I've been told that planting a cover crop of rye is a good way to keep the bugs from overwintering. Besides, it sure adds a lot of nitrogen to the soil."

Innoculated legumes are a better way of adding nitrogen, but they don't work as a winter cover crop. I don't know that rye grass actually adds nitrogen, but it should fix it in a non-leachable form.

I may use the winter rye idea myself, but there is a downside. Grubworms and cutworms can munch on the rye roots. I noticed this spring that our worst cutworm problems were in areas where there had been winter weeds. And grubworms love lawn grass roots and when you plant grass in your garden you could make them worse there, too.

MM

Interesting point about the grubworms. What's the difference between adding and fixing nitrogen?

Silver Queen

I am talking about the striped cucumber beetle, I have yet to see a spotted cuke beetle here in Maine. I had read somewhere about planting radish seed along with the cuke seed they said it helped to keep the cuke beetles away. Said to plant the seeds together at the same time and to not harvest the radishes but let them go to seed and grow, I have tried it this year and I didn't see any difference, the cuke beetles still came. I also read about planting onions around the cukes to keep the beetles away I did that also, still got the beetles! Maybe I should have done just one but not the other?

I have read about the Diva cukes and planted them last year (got the seed from Johnny's they are only 15 minutes from me) Still got the cuke beetles! Maybe I should just buy my cukes to pickle instead and give up on the cukes for a few years!

I love the Geneva Convention for the organic gardeners...LOL...too funny! When I said strictly organic I meant that I use no pesticides at all in my veggie garden. I should have worded that differntly, saying that I am organic as much as possible, I did resort one year to chemicals for the bugs in the garden but that was quite a while ago! As for the flame thrower...can I borrow yours for the cuke beetles? LOL Then we can have fried cukes!

Kathy

"What's the difference between adding and fixing nitrogen?"

My point was that ryegrass doesn't add nitrogen, except maybe for a trace in the seeds themselves. Ryegrass, like most plants, needs nitrogen, so it absorbs it from the soil. It ties up free soluble nitrogen (nitrates or ammonia) as protein in the rye plant. You haven't really gained any nitrogen -- you have just changed the nitrogen you already had available in the soil to protein. The protein itself won't leach out because it is relatively insoluble. As the rye plant decomposes it slowly releases the nitrogen it absorbed.

The situation is different for the innoculated legumes. They actually absorb nitrogen from the air and fix it in organic compounds in their root nodules. As the legume plant decays, there is a net gain of nitrogen in the soil because you are, in effect, adding the nitrogen that came from the air.

If you grow a lot of legumes and innoculate the seed before you plant it, you can get a significant net gain in nitrogen in your soil. That can't happen with other plants, such as winter rye.

MM

"I have read about the Diva cukes and planted them last year (got the seed from Johnny's they are only 15 minutes from me) Still got the cuke beetles! "

Well, there is no claim that Diva cucumbers are immune to cucumber beetles. I will experiment with different ways to fight the cucumber beetles. I like seedless cucumbers.

"I am talking about the striped cucumber beetle, I have yet to see a spotted cuke beetle here in Maine."

Glad to hear that. Spotted cucumber beetles bother lots of things besides cucumbers, including zinnias.

MM

Cathy

Thanks for the link to the University of Maine Cooperative Extension Publications. I have already learned some stuff there.

I don't think their recommended vegetable varieties are particularly up-to-date. The absence of Diva in the cucumbers and Burpee Early Harvest Hybrid in tomatoes was disappointing and tended to discredit the list for me. That list needs to be brought up to date.

But overall, there are many good publications put out by U-Maine. I was particularly impressed by the publications on invasive plants. I had no idea there were so many here.

MM

We've been members of MOFGA for many years now and the man of the house is a "Master Gardener" (kowtow appropriately... ;) ) and is also "Annual Man", lord of the vegetable patch... . We accept a certain amount of loss and insect "damage", but have found with careful attention to easily besieged crops/ornamentals, and SCHEDULE of preventive controls it's rare that any one thing is decimated.

Over the past 13 years we've been "tillin' the soil" we've gotten better at knowing where/when "visitors from away" will show up. It takes practice! And MaineMan is dead on... NEXT year everything will be perfect.

PS: watch out for ticks! just filled a 'scrip. for Lyme Disease... my second case in 8 yrs.. If your tick bite stays red for 1-2 wks. and is hot to the touch, get thee to a physician. OK?