#1 is a gooseberry.

#2 is definitely in the Rubus genus (as raspberries are). I am thinking black raspberry, but not sure. Are the canes very very long, and almost vine like? And do they get a purpling on the cane? That would be black raspberry. All wild raspberries or black raspberries bloom on old wood. That means they bear fruit on the canes that grew the year before. If you remove the canes each year, they will never bear fruit.

Thanks Rick! No, there isn't any purpling on the cane, so far as I can see. I think these first showed up summer before last, but (growing from seed) had a very small amount of leaves and no real canes to speak of. So anything that grew last summer would be what would bear fruit. I haven't seen any sight of fruit yet, but I think they've earned the right to stay under my tree for at least one more year.... in anticipation :-)

The other option for #1 is a type of ornamental currant - I have a big bush that looks just like it with those same vicious thorns. It doesn't produce any fruit, but does have fragrant white currant flowers in spring and ok color in fall. Heck, they are all the same family :) Hope it *is* a gooseberry, then at least you can eat it!

-Marie

The other option for #1 is a type of ornamental currant
I had considered currants, especially as gooseberries usually have bristles in addition to thorns. But dismissed it since my experiences with currants is less thorniness. But Marie has proof otherwise, so I concur it is a strong possibility.

The easiest and sure way to tell the difference is the flower(or berry) arrangement on the plant. They will be born singly in the leaf axils (where a leaf meets the stem) for gooseberries. You can have more than one flower per axil, but each has its own stem connecting it directly to the branch. Arrangement will be in bunches on a stem emerging from the leaf axils with currants.

Until then, I don't know that an untrained eye could see a difference at all.

Looks like currents to me as well- too young to bear fruit- and possible even flower- but currents they probably are.
I have had a bumper crop of currents this year! Big Juicy TART red ones! They all are volunteers from when the buckthorn was pulled and removed. They like to ramble around the woods out in the back yard as an under story planting- I am glad to have them there!
Your birds may like to have them once they bear fruit- I think they will bear fruit- otherwise how would they have been "planted" by the birds? They will make much more of them selves and ramble around a bit if they behave anything like mine...
Enjoy!

#1 If it's thorny then it's gooseberry! We had them growing in our small but completely wooded backyard when we first moved in. They are a PITA!! But DH was able to remove most of them. Now I am slowly taking care of the few suckers that come up.

If we had more space I might not mind so much....but those babies are painful to walk through and I'm trying to beautify things back there!
Kristy :)

Hmmm . . .

My Clove currant does not have any thorns. I checked the wild currants in the woods, and neither do they (practically). I'd say the identity is still unsure.

My currants don't have thorns, my gooseberries do. I think leftwood has the right idea about checking the flowers and berries when they are large enough to bear fruit. By the way the currents make great jelly and the gooseberries are delicious in jam or jelly.

# 2 might be the dwarf raspberry. I got one up at Prarie Restorations this spring. It's kind of a viney thing, and I'm not sure if it will produce berried. I can't remember the first part of the latin name. I think the second part was puebescens or something like.
Lynn