My Ballerina and Veilchenblau have clusters of small hips like that and almost no thorns. Robinhood too, but it's a bit thorny. Ballerina's have been very pretty. Firm shiney round hips, nice color. The local wild rose makes nice sprays (good color) but they're airier (hips further apart). I don't know what would grow in MI, though.

I read up lots about roses from seed and harvested hips from about six different varieties a few years ago. I tried summer, winter, and spring sowing and I had no success whatever. Perhaps like Don, you will have success in your zone. The only way I've managed to propogate roses is by rooting cuttings, which was suprisingly easy. You may want to try both methods.

I had written this in 1999 to a group of hybridizers in an e-mail: " I had observed that all of my open pollinated seedlings of Hansa seemed to vary widely from Hansa. This suggested to me that Hansa may be self sterile, and that the bees had brought a variety of pollen to Hansa. Normally only the species roses are self sterile. I let it go at that until I read this article: "Hybrids of the Circumpolar Rose By PERCY M WRIGHT, Wilkie, Saskatchewan, The American Rose Annual, volume 21, pages 41-42, (1936). A new range of hardiness in roses comes with the development of hybrids of Rosa acicularis, the arctic or circumpolar rose, which in North America comes relatively far south in districts of severe climate. Apart from the late Dr. Van Fleet's use of R. Engelmanni (a subspecies perhaps less closely related than has been thought), and the crosses with R. rugosa made by F. L. Skinner of Dropmore, Manitoba, R. acicularis, in my knowledge, has not before successfully mingled with the domestic roses. It has obstinately refused to hybridize with the tender races, as Hybrid Teas, for example. The female parent of my crosses was the Rugosa variety Hansa. This is probably not a hybrid at all, as reported, but a pure strain of Rugosa, related to Rugosa as the double-flowering strain of R. blanda, known as Mrs. Mina Lindell, is related to Blanda. The ordinary Rugosa dies to within a few inches of the ground in most winters, but Hansa is so much hardier that in my plantation it has lost but a little of the greenest wood in ten years. It has thirty-nine petals, and is that miracle, an everblooming hardy rose. The color is a violet-red. .................." --------------------------------------------------------- It appears (to me) that he based his conclusion on the observation that it was so hardy. it must be a species. If he is correct and it is not a hybrid it could be self sterile. I no longer have a copy of this paper: "In 1986 P. Cole and B. Melton published a paper which investigated the ability of rose pollen to fertilize flowers on the same bush ( .Cole, P., Melton, B., J. Amer. Soc. Hort. Sci., volume 111, pages 122-125, (1986). The diploid species were all highly self-sterile. None of the 23 diploid specimens exhibited over 4 % fertility and 18 of the 23 produced no self-set seed. They also studied the fertility with pollen from another plant of the same species and found that the diploid group was 50 times more cross-compatible than self-compatible. For roses of higher polyploid level 12 of the 16 studied were no more self-compatible than the diploid group."

The Rugosas sucker on their own roots, don't they? Roots spread out & throw up new canes in an ever-expanding patch over time. Might want to find a grafted one if this wouldn't work in your space. Thorniest rose I grow is Aloha Hawaii, a shortish climber whose main canes are literally studded with thick long sharp thorns. Can be grown as a stocky shrub with pruning or allowed to frame the window for a double deterrent. Blooming laterals not as bad as the main canes, but no one could wade through it without a suit of armor. Fragrant double blooms in a range of sunset hues that repeat well & often from early to late here. Lovely fat hips if not deadheaded. HelpMeFind says occasional bloom after the first flush, but Member Ratings average out to Good- from 11 feedback reports. Bloom frequency increased with age here to 4-5 flushes at 4 years old. Nippstress grows this in zone 5b Nebraska. http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.39802.4&tab=1  Keep in mind that it would be a barrier if you ever needed to exit through that window, though. Sue