Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately I don't have the option of moving everything to a yard. A girlfriend lives nearby and has a small balcony, I could possibly drop 1-3 plants there if needed but she's got a million plants already. The size of most of my containers also makes that fairly prohibative though. I do have a great rotating tower fan I've planned on using to circulate air around them, so that's covered (but thanks for explaining why it's important). As for the glass, this is a 30 year old building, they're double glazed and seem 'average'. Here's the info printed on the corners of the patio door glass: Guardian - Tillsonburg, Ont Ansi Z974-1975 Safety Tempered 16 CFR 1201 11 5.0 mm U 3/16 CGSB 12-GP-1 (These numbers will mean more to you, I think) The west/balcony windows are 8' high and 14' wide, the north windows next to it are 5' high and 16' wide, so there's definitely a lot of light that comes into the room. I'd planned to keep the curtains on the west somewhat closed behind the plants, mostly because it does get crazy hot in here in the afternoon. 17 stories up, nothing to shadow us. I'll be getting creative with making sure the plants have enough sun while not melting my furniture! I know my seedlings do great in the windows, and due to a cold June ('Junuary' this year) the eggplants haven't even gone outside yet and they're growing great in the window area, same with the basil that's flourishing, though I have plonked them outside a few times in the sunshine. Al, would putting something bright white behind the guys help for reflecting light? I'll also be turning them often so they 'tan' evenly. It's light here until about 10pm, then dusky until 11ish, so they will be getting a good 8 hours of direct sun, hopefully you can advise on the quality of that through this glass; I might be able to pop them outside a few hours some days too, depending on what goes on outside, really we have no idea. My hope is the balcony only has to stay cleared for a week, but since this is a building envelope issue if there's a problem on a balcony it'll definitely be 4 weeks. Hopefully mine is less, but even then we've not been given a timeline for what they have to do. Workmen will be plonking onto my balcony willy-nilly, we'll be fined if there's anything there while they do this - nothing like keeping your giant barbecue in your living room for a month. :( Whole thing is frustrating, but I mostly want my plants to be happy.

I think it's a good idea, but there is some trade off As the tree grows, the vegetables will lose productivity as the tree takes up more light, and the plants will also be competing for resources in the soil. However, even if you are sacrificing some productivity from each individual plant, the total productivity from that area will be greater if you interplant, and the production will be more varied besides. I have a single Tam Kam asian persimmon, and it's still pretty small, so I can't say just how dense the shade will be in several years, but as of now, there's plenty of sun there to grow other plants. It's especially workable if you stick to cool weather vegetables, like lettuce and broccoli. I wouldn't expect to grow prize winning pumpkins or a bumper crop of tomatoes there. I'm in Eastern Pennsylvania, zone 6, so our climates are probably similar. Looking at my garden today, the buds are just swelling on the persimmon, but the chives are over a foot tall, and the volunteer miner's lettuce, which is great in salads, is already flowering. I have Good King Henry, a perennial leafy green for cooking, growing around the persimmon, and it already has a lot of growth too. Sorrel also does well in less than full sun, and is especially good in the spring. Just this spring I've planted ramps, which are another onion family plant with edible leaves and bulbs. They are a spring ephemeral, meaning they leaf out bloom, and the leaves die back before summer, like a daffodil does. Their natural habitat is under deciduous trees. If your priority is to grow the persimmon, absolutely underplant with vegetables. Even if they don't grow gangbusters, you'll get more veggies than if you don't underplant. If your priority is to grow heat and sun loving veggies in that spot, and you have no other place to grow them, then your decision is harder. I'd recommend reading about "forest gardening" for more ideas on this. The book "Edible Forest Gardens" by Dave Jacke is really good, and was written specifically for the Northeastern gardener.

HI Mike; Thanks. Are you talking about Turface MVP or one of the finer Turface products? I've starting using turface with a lot container trees that I am growing outside and it has seemed to work very well, in hot weather, most pots are pretty dried out in a day. I just watered a bonsai outside that was watered yesterday that is in turface, and it was pretty dry. It was a pretty small pot though. I can't remember what day I had watered the jade last, I will watch it with your week guideline in mind, but I am pretty confident that it will be fairly dried out a week after being watered. The folks over on the bonsai form were the ones that suggested I put in about 10% compost with the turface for the Jade -- Not saying that I'm sure that is correct, that's just where I came up with the mix. I have some mixed that I used turface, perlite, compost & or vermiculite. With any amount of compost (more then 10-20%) or with any amount of fine vermiculite, my mixed got too heavy. Also got too heavy with sand in them, though I think the sand may be too fine. I have tons of grit & perlite here, so I can add it in if necessary, I'm hoping not to have to re-pot it again, but will modify it if necessary of course. What would have been your idea growing medium mix for a large Jade? Do you have a preferred soil mix that you use for house plants in general? I have most major soil / and soil-less mix ingredients here, with the exception of bark mulch - I've not found a good source for bark mulch that is ground to a proper size. Thanks Jamie

Isn't it wonderful getting more sun? I've had lots of treework done (mostly Norway maples and thinning), and my lot has gone from mostly shade to partial shade. I want more sun! I have a plan with my tree guy to take down the last huge Norway maple in my yard as soon as the snow melts (we have about 2 feet right now). I can't wait to get rid of that thing and grow more stuff. :-D I grow bronze fennel and it doesn't produce the bulb. That is "Florence fennel" and it's a cultivar of Foeniculum vulgare that has an enlarged bulb. It is similar to celery but has a mild sweet licorice taste. I cook them with brussel sprouts and carrots, or other winter veggies. It sounds like the pesticide applicator is targeting the woody plants. Hopefully he won't hit the host plants. Next time you see the sprayer, I would go over and ask him about the herbicide. Probably Triclopyr or 2-4-d. I think they kill broad leaf plants but not grasses?