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Goldenrod

Posted by laurabs 7b (My Page) on
Wed, Jun 6, 07 at 0:50

I like goldenrod, but only the kind I see growing wild. The garden center kind looks completely different.

It doesn't seem terribly invasive in the wild here. Can I dig some up, or is that illegal?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Goldenrod

There are a number of different species of wild Solidago as well as a number of different cultivars available from nurseries. Some wild goldenrods you would not want in your gardens.


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RE: Goldenrod

You can ask permission to dig some up.

I don't know what kind laceyvail means about not wanting. Some of them can be "spreaders" and I suppose that might be more aggressive than some people want.

Try identifying the kind you like then and then looking for that kind (or something similar).

Here is a link that might be useful: Solidago pictures


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RE: Goldenrod

Some of the golden rod, is terribley aggressive and difficult to control.

I grow showy goldenrod and zig zag goldenrod.


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RE: Goldenrod

Perhaps you could share the botanical/scientific names for showy goldenrod and zig zag goldenrod if you find they are not aggressive. Common names can be hard to pin down to a specific one sometimes.

That way Laura could look into those particular plants.

Goldenrod does spread by underground runners in some cases, but here in Georgia I find them easy to pull up in the garden if needed. That may not be true in other locations.

Laura, where are you located?


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RE: Goldenrod

It is illegal to dig any plant from land you do not own.

The most common wild goldenrods are the three veined ones: Canada, Tall and Late. They are tall and aggressive and I would not recommend them for a garden. The garden centre plants have been "improved" by horticulturists for bigger flowers, less spready and so on. If you search out a native plant nursery or grower you may be able to find the native species.

Showy (S. speciosa), Stiff (S. rigida) and Gray (S. nemoralis) are nonspready ones for sun. ZigZag (S. flexiculis) and bluestemmed (S. caesia) are good for part shade to shade.


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RE: Goldenrod

Ooooh, thanks for all the tips!

I'm in Raleigh, NC, but I'm also working on a garden for my MIL in Wilmington, NC, near the beach. Soil is sandy, as you'd expect.

Thanks for the search link. The ones I saw and liked there like are the Canada canadensis , variety danodensis or Gold Kind. On a foreign site I saw something called Citronella and also crown of rays. Another foreign site showed chilensisis, if I spelled that right. I saw Solidago Baby Gold and liked it, as well as a Little Lemon dansolitlem. A gray one I liked was nemoralid, I believe. I also liked Solidago rugosa Fireworks.

So one person said Fireworks was a good one, so that's wonderful, and also recommended a gray one, so that's fabulous.

I was very excited about the ones I saw when I went to the search link like Little Lemon and Baby Gold that were a different yellow, but still had the shape I like and the airyness but yet color denseness I like.

(Some look so heavy and others are so overly airy that the color doesn't stand out enough).

It would be nice to get some tallish ones, like 3-4 feet, and then some of the shorter ones.

So far when I've been to garden centers, the only ones I've seen had flatter-shaped blooms instead of the spikey shape.

I'm going to look up the Showy, Siff, and bluestemmed varieties that Judy kindly mentioned.

It's such a great shortcut to come here and get tips!

Thanks!


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RE: Goldenrod

I can order 3 different ones I'm interested from this place near me.

http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/page94.html


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RE: Goldenrod varieties

I did like Solidago caesia. It is different than what I was looking for, but it's neat because the way the flowers are arranged on the stems they remind me of the berries on beauty berry bushes.

The rigidata one has flat flowers, which are not what I am looking for.

Found this list, useful for those who can't read their own handwriting, LOL:

Solidago 'Citronella'
Solidago 'Ducky'
Solidago 'Golden Dwarf'
Solidago 'Golden Mosa'
Solidago 'Golden Wings'
Solidago 'Laurin'
Solidago 'Perkeo'
Solidago 'Sweety'
Solidago caesia
Solidago canadensis
Solidago cutleri
Solidago flexicaulis 'Variegata'
Solidago gigantea
Solidago glomerata
Solidago odora
Solidago rigida
Solidago sphacelata 'Golden Fleece'
Solidago virgaurea

And this page:
http://sjabloon.border.nl/index.html?lang=nl&target=d82_18.html


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RE: Goldenrod

I would go ahead and dig up a small portion of a wild one that you like. Yes, many goldenrods spread in the garden, but depending on the size of the area you have to fill that might be a good thing. I have lots of goldenrods in my garden and don't find them difficult to control. I simply pull up unwanted shoots in the spring and summer.

Digging from public land may be illegal, but there is lots of private land from which you could dig. I doubt you'll find many landowners who will mind you carefully digging plants. The nice thing about spreading plants like goldenrods is that you can dig some and leave the rest, so you don't remove the original. Digging a trillium or orchid from the woods leaves the woods without the plant you have taken. Dividing a goldenrod barely even sets the goldenrod back much since it will quickly fill in the gap you create. Also, it is common practice in may states to spray roadsides and powerlines with herbicide, so i don't feel guilty collecting a few starts when the original is likely to be destroyed soon.


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RE: Goldenrod

Canadensis is an aggressive spreader, I would avoid it. For the various cultivars you mention (all the names in ""), be sure to ask for the latin name which will tell you which goldenrod was the parent and will provide clues to ultimate size and agressiveness.

Flexiculis and caesia are for part shade to shade, not full sun, so be careful siting them.

Digging from private land without landowner consent is illegal, no matter how carefully you dig or what plant you take. You must ask the landowner for permission before trespassing to look for plants as well as for permission to dig and remove plants from the land.


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RE: Goldenrod

I use 'Fireworks' at the mailbox. It doesn't get a lot of water and hasn't spread much in the two years it has been there. It is just starting to bloom in this picture. I think it paired well with the Lobelia cardinalis. You can also see ebony spleenwort, broad beech fern and 'Dale's Strain' heuchera there. Penstemon and mouse eared coreopsis are the spring bloomers in the group (not seen here).

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


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RE: Goldenrod

Flexiculis and caesia are for part shade to shade, not full sun, so be careful siting them.

That's great news! I have plenty of room on one shaded side yard. Thanks.

Fireworks with that lobelia is wonderful. Thanks for sharing that picture.


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RE: Goldenrod

I have Fireworks and Cascade, so hopefully I see them this year.


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RE: Goldenrod

Yep, lots of goldenrods to pick from. I think they're all worthy plants, even including the big three spreading types-canadensis, altisimma, and gigantea, although I do also agree those three may not be the best choice for gardens. I'd say that light exposure and soil moisture status should be the topmost factors in making your choice. That and what you like, of course!

Be aware too that all goldenrods are not in genus Solidago these days. Look also in Oligoneuron and Euthamia for additional species. I'm quite fond of a couple of wetland species-Oligoneuron riddellii or Riddell's goldenrod, and Solidago ohioensis or Ohio goldenrod. A good plant in more mesic to drier sites is the showy goldenrod-Solidago speciosa-which someone might have mentioned already. These three species look good just as they are, no horticultural selections needed.

+oM


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RE: Goldenrod

I've been trying to get Solidago nemoralis to germinate in home but can't seem to get it to take. It seems to be very well behaved in the wild and has a delicate look to it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Illinois wildflowers


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RE: Goldenrod

Yeah, that's a nice little one. Best in drier soils for the most part.

+oM


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RE: Goldenrod

The S. nemoralis will also take solid caliche and limestone mix, a highly alkaline , dry infertile mix in Central Texas. It is tough as nails and takes full sun and reflected heat here.
I am interested in a soldago found in The Wichitaw mountains called Soldago ssp. Wichitaw Mountain, imagine that. Great dry and sun tolerant soldago.

I know, y'all are from the land of usually plentiful water. Most soldagos are too thirsty for my land. Soldago canadensis grows in the moist areas where the soil has collected along with the water. Not close to me. The Soldago nemoralis is endemic here in the uplands around me.

Here is a link that might be useful: Soladgo ssp. Wichitaw Mountain


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RE: Goldenrod

Looks like a nice plant, Wanto. I've got a sea of the canadensis/altissima/gigantea complex on my land in N.E. WI. A strip that wasn't farmed because of too-wet soils, these plants, along with asters, etc. are just beautious. Trees from my woods are gradually colonizing into that area too, which is just fine-mostly white pines, N. white cedars, paper birch, and balsam poplars. Sometimes, the best treatment is no treatment!

But I do like that little Wichita Mt. Would be good in some planned beds I'm doing at work where I've been blending native or native-ish species in with more typical garden perennials. Thanks for the post!

+oM


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RE: Goldenrod

Wisconsitom, strange you brought up asters because there are some natural hybrids of asters and soldagos that are very attractive and garden worthy.


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RE: Goldenrod

I'd enjoy learning more about those! Hardly surprising given Solidago (And other) genera's location within Asteraceae.

+oM


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RE: Goldenrod

Google "Solidaster" and you will find several . Many arrived at through the trade. BUT there are some native ones out there since it does hybridize out in nature. Many beautiful images. I am insecure about them because of our Texas heat situation, but if it is a more northern prairie, I think they would be perfect. I love my heteotheca species though and I can't think of a better intergenic hybrid for the prairie.

Here is a link that might be useful: Solidaster image search.


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RE: Goldenrod

Thanks much, Wanto. Going to look at your link now. Indeed, a very fertile area for exploration!

Where I'm at, New England aster rules. And that's surely not a bad thing! Plus, there are color phases present within most stands, so you've got the basic blueish-purple, but then there will be deep coral pink and even some more sky blue (Not the aster species of that name) all mixed in together. Really amazing. Throow in the various wild goldenrods,and the frost asters that are usually blooming in that same late summer/fall timeframe, and you've really got something-all without a single human intervention. Of course, where we're purposely establishing prairie plantings-in my case, around stormwater ponds, etc.-we do go with a much more diverse mix. But in truth, I like just what happens around here on its own just as well. Up north at my tree farm there is a slightly different aster mix going on. I'm still working to ID what we've got growing there. At first, I thought smooth aster, then sky blue, but I haven't quite sussed it out yet. Simply put, I need to take my books with me next fall!

Thanks again for the nice research idea!

+oM


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RE: Goldenrod

My Solidago Fireworks are coming up from last year. I'm so excited about these. I have Solar Cascade, which are very small at the moment. I'm having issues with the new growth breaking off. I think I have a few called Goldkind that I've had for a few years. I love the blooms on these.


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RE: Goldenrod

Not trying to hijack but I have a goldenrod ? When you are trying to id goldenrod what do you look at? Last yr I spent a lot of time trying to id by flowers but this yr I've noticed that if there were a key available for this...it seems the easiest way to id them is before they flower...even before they start to grow up. The "rosettes" that first break ground in the spring are so different! Is there a key that separates the species based on this? Thanks!


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RE: Goldenrod

Try comparing leaf venation patterns, pubescence (fuzziness) or lack thereof of stems, stem coloration, ie green/purple/or what, overall plant height, arrangement of inflorescence, ie flat-topped, panicle, etc.

It can indeed be tricky, given the ease with which members of this tribe of plants interbreed, constantly reshuffling the genes and making life hard for we taxonomists!

+oM


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