That is so funny brandymulvaine that you dug that up :) I went out to clear a space for some more and now the snow has covered what I already had out there. Started shoveling and found some pots of ws perennials from last year that didn't make it out to the garden. So, I'm just going to stack the crates/boxes of wsing jugs on top of the snow bank where I suspect a few others are under the snow. The snow melts slowly enough in the spring I can rearrange before everything topples over in a big mess. I certainly don't have the snow that jel is contending with, well not yet anyways!

I strongly agree with the recommendations to smother & WAIT. Think of this as a long-term project. Immediate results are not likely to be the best results in the long run. In my experience, weeds are one thing -- grass weeds are another beast altogether. I like the idea of using natural fiber carpet rather than plastic b/c the water can still get through. Otherwise, you can have runoff issues. If you start this in the summer, you'll have an even better chance of killing off everything. I know it's been several weeks since you started this thread, but in Dallas, we're in the middle of a run of triple digit weather, so its the perfect time for us to smother.

My standard counter depth is 28". I have never had a complaint from a customer as regards this arrangement not providing sufficient working depth on the countertops. This provides sufficient room for pipes, electrical runs and clearance behind standard depth cabinetry and it allows flush alignment of appliance fronts and base cabinet doors. In some cases we make extra allowance for deeper refrigerators. I almost always block forward upper cabinets 3" by setting up a double 2x4 rail. The rail furrs forward the cabinets and also provides a void behind for wiring runs for cove and under cabinet lighting. With this setup, if you used 15" uppers the distance from counter front to uppers would be 10 inches with the 3" build out. If you used 12" deep cabinetry the distance would be 13" evidently enough. For smaller customers we tend to focus on less upper cabinetry and look toward floor to ceiling pull out pantries and other such storage arrangements as are easier to access. I am myself a towering 5'7". Lets say that in high school soccer and track were a better choice for me than basketball.

"I can't be bothered to go out and scout out examples for photos of ivy doing just as floral described ..." Unfortunately, without evidence, I can't feel compelled to believe your and Floral's claims. If it were true what you both say, then the physical proof should be available within ten seconds of entering the "ivy infested woodlands" that surround you, GG. The personal assurance of an ivy hater, such as yourself (and possibly Floral) might not be based on pure, objective fact. Ivy haters tend to not grow ivy or study the nuances of its habits. Instead, figuratively speaking they run from and throw rocks at it. "But it requires far more maintenance than any other groundcover I can think of ..." I know you wouldn't want to think this, but is it possible that with this particular plant, you are not managing it in the best way? I've heard this claim before -- where I lived and where I had ivy and where it grew with seemingly unbridled energy -- and found it to be baseless. In fact, when I managed ivy, I credited it for being not only the most dependable groundcover that would accept almost any and all conditions, but for being the biggest landscape time and work-saver ever!. The two half-acre properties in Atlanta I owned personally were each covered in 1/4 acre of ivy. Not even mulch -- which would need annual top dressing -- could have been easier or cheaper. I guess if one was set on hating it and their perpetual goal was to get rid of it, then having ivy around would seem like the cause of an endless struggle. But for those of us who consider how we can put this durable, disease-free, evergreen plant to work solving everyday landscape problems, find that barely any other plant is as versatile and dependable. "And if you skip the maintenance for any length of time or if you inherit a garden where the ivy is already established but has not been properly maintained, then all bets are off!" Interestingly enough, that was my initial introduction to it and ultimately, what caused me to come to love it. I bought my first property in Atlanta ... a neglected house and yard that was borderline abandoned. It was owned and previously rented out to faculty by Agnes Scott college. But their plans had changed and it had sat dormant for period of years. Ivy was literally everywhere in the neighborhood, which was primarily wooded. The yard was large oak trees, about a billion saplings, and chest-high weeds everywhere. In the house-half of the yard, ivy was front and center, In exploration of the wooded and weedy half, ivy seemed to underlie everything. I wondered if I could get rid of the weeds and keep the ivy (I needed to have something nice looking covering the ground.) It turned out that I could spray the weeds and their existence protected the ivy from a direct hit of herbicide. In about a year's time, I had what would have cost several thousand dollars, had I had to install it, of ivy. I also had ivy running amok on the house but it was not difficult to kill with herbicide and be done with it. I decided I didn't want ivy growing up the large trees and severed it all at the base of each tree, except for one which was a special project. That chore on a quarter acre of tree took probably took no more than 2 or three hours. It was much more time consuming to cut and remove the billion weedy saplings. It was a relatively short time for all the dead ivy leaves to fall off, making it much less visible. Within two or three months, all the ivy stems were falling off of the trees. All I had to do was walk around and pick it up, as a one-time thing. I won't go deeper here into how bad IT WASN'T, to convert a complete weed infested eyesore into a handsome, groundcovered landscape, thanks to ivy, but I have its general maintenance factors pretty well discussed in another thread devoted exclusively to that subject ...[Managing Hedera Helix[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/managing-hedera-helix-english-ivy-dsvw-vd~5352716?n=16)