Reminder, this area is located in a corner. So I am dealing with an area represented as a 90 degree arc. Current radius (available planting area) is 14". More detailed description to follow: Let me try to describe the layout, not sure if this much detail is necessary or not, or if I can really describe the layout that well. I will divide my descriptions into levels. Bottom/lower level consists of the waterfall base. This area represents base of waterfall, ground level to an area 8" below the top of the waterfall. Back of waterfall is located out 14" from both walls. So in effect, there is a 14" area of dirt covering an "L" shape area behind the waterfall back to the rear walls. The area of dirt does extend outward from the wall, under the rocks making up the waterfall, further down near the base you go. Second level has is located 8" below top of waterfall to the top of the waterfall. Currently there are plants located on the outsides of this area (both ends of the "L", but not the center of the "L"/corner area). The corner area is built up another 8" (surrounded by rocks), bringing the top level of the soil equal to the top of the waterfall. It is for this area that I am trying to locate a distinctive plant as stated in topic of this forum. On top of the waterfall is a statue raising up another 24". I can build up the second level to a height above the top of the waterfall, I suspect I could go as high as 18"-20" (the current 8" plus another foot) and still have it look presentable. I could also build the area out further, possibly with a radius to my arc of up to 24". I would have to put some type of lining under the area extended out behind the initial 14" to drain water back into the rear "L" shape area along the back wall. To summarize: Currently the 90 degree arc has a radius of 14" for planting (and unlimited depth) raised 8" above surrounding dirt. I can extend this area out, up to 24" (adding a liner to direct water runoff) if necessary, and increase the height another 12". The added area beyond the initial 14" will not have unlimited depth. The depth in this extended area will only be the initial 8" plus any additional height increases above that 8". Some thoughts about using a JM. As I am dealing with a corner area (90 degree arc); some pruning/shaping of the tree will be necessary to fit into the corner. Will this affect the stability of the tree (being too heavy on one side)? Will this drastically alter the appearance? Id have to believe I can train some of the side branches into a more presentable pattern? The initial height restrictions might not be as rigid as initially stated, as I think it would be very beautiful to have this particular tree covering the entire waterfall and pond area. There is no roof or other height restrictions. I imagine my main restriction would be root area availability? If I do go the JM route, I would like one that has interesting branch structure in addition to the other beautiful qualities these trees possess. mjsee - I did not have a chance to research the suggestions you mentioned. I will do so and post a reply next visit. Scott

I had read the comments from the Tea Bag ladies, but will go back to one of the first questions I asked about 'Francis Dubreuil', when this thread first began to drift from its original topic: Was the original 'Francis Dubreuil' a "true Tea", or was he a "Hybrid Tea"? Or was he that other thing, a "Tea hybrid"? The earliest descriptions of FD say his color was a dark red with pink or cerise or amaranth highlights. My assumption is that 'FD' was darker than other red Teas, but would not have looked terribly out of place hanging out with other reds such as 'Gen Gallieni', 'M. Tillier', 'Souv. de David d'Angers', 'Mlle Christine de Nouë', ''Corallina', 'Safrano a Fleurs Rouges', 'Princesse de Sagan', 'Bardou Job' and- of course- 'Souv de Therese Levet'. Here's a 1901 review from a German rose reviewer about Francis: "Francis Dubreuil (Dubreuil 1895) is not only one of the most excellent red Tea roses but also one of the best Tea roses of all. The flower is in fact only of medium size, and sometimes even small, but keeps extremely well. It lasts In bud form for a very long time, and is then at its most beautiful. The growth is vigorous and the crown is well branched. What I like most about this rose, is its capacity to produce solitary flowers on long, upright stems, I do not like roses in flower umbels (in clusters). Its floriferousness (flowering period) is very long, it lasts right up to the frosts." That mention of "solitary flowers on long, upright stems" makes me think we might find some HP ancestry in Francis' background, no? And it accords well with other early mentions of FD having "diffuse growth"... Here's an early discrepancy, though; the review above says 'FD' "lasts in bud form for a very long time, and is then at its most beautiful". Contrast that with an earlier British review- Francis "is described as full flower of a fine form, opening very readily, perhaps too much so"... So if Francis was dark red and had diffuse growth, he seems to be quacking like an early HT, and not a "pure Tea"? Was he classified as a Tea because of his fragrance? According to Guillot, 'FD' is descended from 'Souv de David d'Angers' (described as "deliciously fragrant" in 1864) who is in turn descended from 'Caroline', the Tea that may be synonymous with 'Bermuda Spice'. Some early reviews of 'FD' say he is fragrant, most say nothing, and at least one reviewer says "not fragrant". This assortment of varying opinions shouldn't be surprising, given humans' different capacities for smell, and given the way odors can vary according to temperature, time of day, etc. The scent of Tea roses seems to be especially elusive, and elicits a confusion of descriptions, so I'm inclined to believe that the original Francis probably had a Tea scent and was fragrant to some people and not to others. However, I think it's also possible that if there were an early confusion with at least one grower offering a different rose as 'Francis D', the differences in opinion about form and fragrance could stem from an early switcheroo. Just because there was a later mix-up with 'Barcelona' doesn't mean there wasn't also an earlier mix-up somewheres down the line. And if there were an earlier misidentification, this early imposter might be the rose that was later sent from Sangerhausen to Oz in 1981? Another question I have relates to size. The Tea rose grown by Mr Knight just outside of Sydney was a large rose bush. The roses grown in the U.S. and Oz as FD today both seem to be more compact and HT-like (although the Aussie plant that hails from Sangerhausen seems to have a earlier HT look than 'Barcelona' does?) I'm trying to get things straight in my own head, so if I'm off-course in my suppositions, please get me back on track. Virginia

Allie, I second Yardvaark's observation that rock mulch is expensive. It is also backbreaking to spread, difficult to plant in, and unforgiving. Once it's there, you are pretty much stuck with it. Having said all of that, I really like rock mulch and have a lot of it. It's very common here in Colorado and, used properly, can be stunning. A couple of recommendations I would like to make, however. One, most plants, even those considered xeric / drought resistant, appreciate organic mulch. That doesn't mean they won't do well with rock mulch, too, but organic mulch (i.e., shredded hardwood) will not hurt them. Two, organic mulch will be less expensive and much easier to spread yourself. Once you have plants in place and have the look you like (and as the budget allows) you can rake up the mulch, move it to the back yard, and order rock mulch if you decide you still need it to get the look you want. Three, a combination of organic mulched areas and rock mulched areas can be very attractive. I've attached a few examples, as well as a very preliminary plan for your yard, given the limited photo. The easiest way to begin is to invest in a backpack sprayer and spray your lawn with glyphosate (Roundup generic). If you have a Tractor Supply or other such store in your area, you can buy the generic much cheaper than buying Roundup. You will probably need to do that 2-3 times over a 3-4 week period. There is no need to remove the dead grass before planting. With the look you're going for, it really isn't absolutely necessary to have your foundation planting be separate from those plantings in the rest of the yard, although it would look better to do so. If you go that route, shape that area first (using garden hoses, flags, whatever). PKponder gave you some good plant suggestions. You might also enjoy some of these garden blogs: http://www.penick.net/digging/?page_id=6107

girlnamedgalez, I want to thank you for suggesting Dragon wing begonias. I appreciate all the ideas, but as you probably saw above that's what I went with. Now I am totally sold on them. I took nine cuttings which have rooted. For good measure I just now cut the large plants back by 2/3, lifted the roots out of the pots and put in the green house to get an early start next spring. This photo of the mixed planting was taken earlier in the year. The Dragon wing eventually increased to over twice this size ... ... The single Dragon wing in the other pot also increased to two or three times this size ... ... They were always fresh looking and provided a lot of color with little care through the season. It's definitely a plant I'll use in more places next year.