Well, about a week ago, one of the oaks lost all of its leaves. I'd watered both the day before, then woke up to find that the oak in the light green monrovia container (left, in pics in first posting) had not a leaf upon it. No sign of animal damage, chewing or otherwise. Stem fully intact, including the original growth tip. I must assume that the morning sun just blasted it....or something? However, the oak in the black plastic container, sitting right beside the other, wasn't damaged at all. I made a small scratch, saw green, crossed my fingers, and moved both oaks to the north-east side of my house. Now, the oak in the black pot has pushed out about an inch of new growth. And it looks as though at least two small buds are turning red and swelling on the leaf-less oak. Could it be that this second push of growth, which followed hot weather, pushed the old leaves out? I'm just hoping the tree doesn't die. Josh

kawaiineko, you might also want to look at Plant Maps' Heat Zone map for California, which shows how many days per year are likely to be above 86 degrees: http://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-california-heat-zones-map.php When I was 12, we moved from Fremont to Menlo Park -- from about 4 miles east of the Bay to about 5 miles west of the Bay, and a total distance of about 14 miles -- and couldn't understand why the summer was so hot in Menlo Park. Now I see that we moved from Zone 1 (averaging no more than 1 day above 86* per year) to zone 5 (averaging between 31 and 45 days above 86* per year)! [You can also put in a zip code for somewhere in a different state and see a Heat Zone map for that state. Note the list of Plant Maps' other maps with different information in the right hand margin.] I'm under the impression that these Heat Zone maps are simply a non-copyrighted version of the American Horticultural Society's Plant Heat Zone Map, which is illegible online, but they will happily sell you a legible printed map. I assume both groups generated the maps from non-copyrighted government info. === USDA's Plant Hardiness Zone shows the average low temperature (within a 5* F. range) -- and that's all it indicates. USDA zone info is really only good for knowing what plants should survive winter cold. For instance, both San Francisco much of middle Florida are both 9b. 9b in San Francisco means mild summer weather (my dad swore June was the coldest month of the year and frequently took his coat to work), foggy, and extremely changeable. It's difficult to ripen tomatoes because sunlight and heat are both sometimes inadequate. 9b in Florida, on the other hand, is horribly hot and humid and includes some of the best commercial tomato-growing areas in the state -- but you can't really grow tomatoes outdoors in the summer in Florida, because it's too hot for successful pollination and fruitset, and the plant itself is overly stressed. http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/ === Sunset's system actually covers the entire U.S., not simply California. It gives a more detailed description of the type of weather year round -- but the degree of detail it gives varies from place to place. For some places it sounds very helpful. But when I look at the map, my zone 36 includes pretty much the entire Appalachian region between southern Pennsylvania and about 30 miles north of Atlanta (an area extending more than 400 miles). "Growing season: May to late Oct. Thanks to greater elevation, summers are cooler and less humid, winters colder (0 degrees to -20 degrees F/-18 degrees to -29 degrees C) than in adjacent, lower zones. Rain comes all year (heaviest in spring). Late frosts are common." It may be accurate, but it's too general -- and it won't tell you whether your new plants will freeze or not! http://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zones/

I looked online and K. Ceratophylla didn't seem to fit, but it led me to a couple of links and it seems that the first one could be K. Longiflora var. Coccinea (??) Pictures online give mixed reports. Some pictures look like mine and other don't. hmm. Joscience, I think we've got a positive ID on the second one. Good to know it should be fine in our winter. All of my other echeverias are going into their growing modes.

Thank you everyone, especially pinetree30! I will definitely stop by the Eddy Arboretum on my way up to the mountains. I will start out in the Tahoe/Desolation Wilderness and marvel at some fine Abies magnifica stands, then head south to Calaveras Big Trees, and to the east side of the Sierras in an attempt to collect Pinus monophylla seeds. If there is time, I will continue on to the Kings Canyon/Kearsarge Pass area. I will take my camera and share the picture when I return. Resin  I have seen larches at high elevations in the Stanislaus NF area. Those would have been Larix occidentalis? - There is a little town in the area named Tamarack.