JOIN NOW LOG IN
iVillage GardenWeb iVillage GardenWeb THE INTERNET'S GARDEN & HOME COMMUNITY ADVERTISEMENT
Blogs Forums Photo Galleries Ask The Experts FAQs Tools & Directories        
Return to the New England Gardening Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Posted by terrene 5b MA (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 2, 12 at 3:24

This is getting kind of weird. Very little snow and snow cover, above freezing temps more days than not, and the plants and birds seem to be responding as if it were Spring already. Late January/early Feb. usually has the coldest average temps of the year and it was close to 60 degrees yesterday. Maybe this is not so unusual for coastal New England, but definitely for metro-west Boston.

Last winter was the harshest winter I've ever lived thru, this winter has been the opposite. What the heck is going on?? (maybe a rhetorical question, lol, because who really knows?)


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

You New Englanders will take advantage of any reason you can to complain. This is without a doubt the most negative state (area) in the US. I'm still searching for that hardy New Englander...


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

It isn't just New England, though, terrene.

Ref: "http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45799486/ns/us_news-christian_science_monitor/t/blame-arctic-refrigerator-mild-winter-so-far/"

New Englanders, who perhaps are perceived as weather complainers, are truly not: They(we)are following the historical cultural scripts and tidings of our public discussion protocol set in motion by the Colonists. For centuries the New England weather has been a safe subject for public discussion, despite the velocity or direction of the wind. Observations of the weather are usually not 'complaints'; they are, quite simply, observations. How those 'complaints' are construed may depend upon the listener's ear, if unfamiliar with the custom.

If one has the time and interest, Mark Twain's 1873 speech about New England weather sums it up nicely - link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: NYT - Mark Twain's Weather Speech


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

No sign of winter here, other than the freakish snowstorm we had back in October. I'm just as glad, as last winter was difficult. Just hoping that Mother nature doesn't make up for this mild winter with another tropical summer storm like Irene.

I heard that this is an El Nino year, something to do with the polar regions and an effect on the gulf stream. That could explain a lot. Obviously climate change has affected our weather in a broader sense, but I'm guessing the El Nino thing is why we don't have snow this winter.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

  • Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 2, 12 at 11:16

I loved Mark Twain's speech (thanks, Jane), particularly this quote:

"If we hadn't our bewitching autumn foliage, we should still have to credit the weather with one feature which compensates for all its bullying vagaries - the ice storm - when a leafless tree is clothed with ice from the bottom to the top - ice that is as bright and clear as crystal; when every bough and twig is strung with ice beads, frozen dewdrops, and the whole tree sparkles, cold and white, like the Shah of Persia's diamond plume. [Applause.] Then the wind waves the branches, and the sun comes out and turns all those myriads of beads and drops to prisms, that glow and burn and flash with all manner of colored fires, which change and change again, with inconceivable rapidity, from blue to red, from red to green, and green to gold; the tree becomes a spraying fountain, a very explosion of dazzling jewels; and it stands there the acme, the climax, the supremest possibility in art or nature, of bewildering, intoxicating, intolerable magnificence! One cannot make the words too strong. [Long continued applause.]

Month after month I lay up my hate and grudge against the New England weather; but when the ice storm comes at last, I say: "There, I forgive you, now; the books are square between us; you don't owe me a cent; go, and sin no more; your little faults and foibles count for nothing; you are the most enchanting weather in the world!"

Of course, ice storms are rough on the trees, but they are undeniably beautiful.

Claire


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Sorry - someone told me the CS Monitor link above didn't work.

trying again below

Here is a link that might be useful: Blame Arctic refrigerator for mild winter so far


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I recall years when February was unusually mild here in the northeast. In particular there was a year when February 17th got up close to 70 degrees. I packed up the kids & the dog and we took a day trip to the Rhode Island shore, walked on the beach & jumped back as the waves washed ashore.

I've lived in New England my whole life and go by the old saying, "If you don't like the weather in New England, wait a minute. It'll change." My mother's contempt for weather forecasters & their frequent errors is best expressed in her words, "If you want to know what the weather is, look out the window."

Judging from Twain's insightful speech (thanks Jane), New England's unpredictable weather is as changeable in 2012 as it was 250+ years ago. I detected no complaint in terrene's post but rather curiosity and concern for the unseasonably mild weather's potential impacts on our gardens & the critters with whom we share them.

I remember another ice storm, when I went out with my camera to capture the sparkling ice on the mountain laurel beside my driveway. Looking through the view finder, at first I thought the mountain laurel was moving but then realized it was me, sliding sideways down the driveway, camera focused on the brilliant foliage as I slid slowly toward the road in my sturdy winter boots. I had to wonder how far I'd go since I lived 3/4 of the way up what had originally been named Steep Gutter Road.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Tree-oracle, you don't hear me complaining in the least about this weather! This must be what it's like to live in North Carolina or something...not too tough to take. It's just as the other posters say, a bit of conversation and concern. There are plenty of hardy New Englanders, I am probably one of them! I doubt they're living in the coastal zone 6b/7a "wimpy winter" part of New England though...heehee

Claire, in Twain's time the ice storm was not only beautiful but was probably welcome precisely because they caused damage to trees. There were no power lines to worry about, and imagine how much easy fire wood was suddenly at their fingertips!

I read the term windfall originated to describe the wood that fell or was broken off trees after an unexpected storm. Apparently, during colonial times, all standing trees were property of the King...colonists were not allowed to cut trees, but they were allowed to collect the fallen wood - a "windfall".


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Oh, gardenweed, good humor and well told story-- it's a 'windfall' from this thread, lol. Sure can learn more when we're not shoveling, lol.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Yes the winter is much more productive and enjoyable when people don't have to deal with snow removal, ice dams, leaking buildings, collapsing roofs, etc like last year!

Without the usual snow cover, it's easier to do stuff like garden or yard cleanup, tree work, pruning, etc. I've jumped on the chance to be out in the back yard getting ahead on the chores now - cleaning up sticks and wood, open burning, and removal of invasive woody plants. Also, was able to have a little tree work done 2 weekends ago, that is not possible with the usual snow cover in mid-January.

Corunum, that article was interesting, although it's more than a month old so I wonder if any other parts of the country have gotten any snow yet? The Arctic Oscillation sounds interesting and how nice that high pressure decided to lock the cold air up towards the Arctic this year.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I have lived in New England my whole life and have put up with plenty of snow and ice, cold and wind, slips and falls and backaches galore! I'm a "hardy" New Englander - even if I am in the "wimpy" part in zone 6! But now I embrace the milder winter. It's about time for a change now. Opens up new and exciting gardening opportunities. This will bring out our pioneering spirit.........and those pioneers were another hardy group so we can still be proud! The only problem I see is deciding where to plant the palm trees................


 o
RE: Will we have a Winter this year??

The only problem I see is deciding where to plant the palm trees...... Be sure to let us know what you decide bill_ri_z6b.

When my son learned his zone had changed from 5b to 6a thanks to the new zone map, he said he will plant an orange tree. I asked him, "Mandarin or Valencia?" He replied, "Navel." His tail had been in a slight knot that I was borderline 5b/6a while he was a solid 5b living 14 miles south of me. Thus is family harmony restored thanks to the USDA.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

  • Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 3, 12 at 11:15

Well, I think the palm trees should be planted in a grove properly spaced to allow hammocks to be hung in varying orientations. One should be able to move from hammock to hammock according to the view and to avoid sun in the eyes.

I come from hardy New England stock myself and I bet those hardy ones would have loved living in my "wimpy winter" area. Shoveling snow and keeping fires going all day and night can be wearing, as I'm sure some of us know all too well.

I figure the "hardy" gene is still in my DNA and could be expressed if need be, but I'm happy to leave it dormant for now.

Claire


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

treeoracle ~ you want a hardy New Englander? i forthwith nominate myself: 65-years-old now who toughed it out during the big ice storm back in 2008 at home alone with my cat. don't recall the outdoor temps, but indoors got to 38*. bundled in many layers of Polartec (god bless that stuff) and was able to make a huge pot of homemade chicken soup from scratch and hot cocoa due to propane range. otherwise, i might have succumbed to the wimp factor and gone elsewhere! it was really very boring, all i could do was read, but that was difficult with lanterns/candles. makes one truly appreciate modern conveniences!! now i have a newly-installed whole-house generator in the event we ever have a similar situation. peace of mind is a wonderful thing. =)


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

And how about this for "hardiness"? The blizzard of '78 !!!
Officially here in Providence was thirty-something inches of snow, but I measured as accurately as I could 44 inches here and there was definitely 50+ inches in northern RI! And there was lots of wind and drifting too. Many people couldn't open their doors to get out and had to go out second floor windows to start shoveling!There was an eerie silence for a week after, since there were no vehicles able to run. Cars were buried completely. We had to walk to the store, and found ourselves stepping on cars under the snow, with a laundry basket tied to a sled behind us to carry groceries home. Luckily, the power here was only out for a few hours......I don't know how but we were lucky. So, with those memories, I welcome this winter no problem! Just because I live in New England, I don't need to prove my endurance any more. Now that I have a Meidcare card (Gawd!!!) I can do what I want and enjoy anything that's easier!


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I lived in Wisconsin for several years and an eight inch snowstorm would hardly even make the news there. It was usually a passing comment by the meteorologist at the end of the show. There was no Storm Track 7 or any of this media frenzy that goes into every little storm here. There wasn't a winter in the six years that I lived there where the high in January was ever above 5 below zero. Yet, I NEVER heard anyone complain or even discuss the temperatures. By the time the temperatures started rising to typical New England winter temperatures, guys were walking around with their shirts off and girls were laying out in bikinis. There were never any raids on the grocery stores. People never had to get prepared because they were already prepared. They were a hardy bunch. The people in New England act exactly the same as Southerners with winter weather. There are no differences that I can see. Actually the people here would panic more if they got the number of ice storms that the South gets every year.

I've been here for sixteen years now and I too recognize this winter as unusually warm and snow-free but I'm definitely embracing it. I'm going to plant some vegetables out early this year to take advantage of it. I am hoping that everything doesn't start blooming early just to get zapped by a cold snap.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

As a native New Englander I must agree with TreeOracle. Like TreeOracle, I lived in the upper Midwest (Minneapolis) for 7 years. And after that experience, I must conclude that those of us who live in southern New England, particularly the wimpy-winter coastal zone 6b/7a places (where I am), have not really experienced anything that even comes close to a normal Minnesota winter. The average January temperature in Minneapolis is 16 degrees colder than Boston. Remember the frigid month of January 2004? If that same month occurred in Minneapolis it would be remembered as a rather mild start to the year with well above normal temperatures and a paucity of sub-zero conditions. And here is another way to look at it. What locations average 16 degrees warmer than Boston in January? Macon Georgia and Jackson Mississippi! In other words, Macon is to Boston what Boston is to Minneapolis when comparing January temperature! When I returned to SE New England I had a revelation: OMG, we are total winter wimps! All of the northern New England cities also average quite a bit warmer than Minnesota in winter. The only problem with TreeOracle's last comment is that he is comparing the Boston media today (yes---totally overblown weather hype), with the media as it existed in other places many years ago. I suspect that if we returned to the upper midwest today, we would also observe more weather hype for what used to be marginal or irrelevant weather events. Do you live in Caribou Maine? OK...now you can lay claim to being a hardy New Englander!


 o
El Nino Responsible?

An earlier comment asked if El Nino was responsible for our current winter conditions. The answer is a categorical no, for two reasons. First, the ocean-atmosphere system this winter is not in the El Nino phase. In fact, it is in the exact opposite phase which is called La Nina. Second, there is no statistical correlation at all (contrary to many claims) between New England winter weather and El Nino/La Nina conditions. There are too many other factors, like the NOrth Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), the Arctic Oscillation, North Atlantic blocking, etc, that influence our winter conditions.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

  • Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 4, 12 at 11:01

My niece and her partner moved to Minnesota after living in Boston for a number of years. They came east for a visit every winter, joking that they came to MA to get away from the winter cold, sort of like going to Florida but being able to see old friends here.

Claire


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Well the media certainly take any opportunity to make it an "event"! Just their way of dramatizing everything to get us to watch their stations! But everything is relative. People in northern Canada would say Minnesota winters are mild! But this being a gardening forum, I think that may be why some of us (like me) tend to favor milder weather. More things that we can try to grow, more time outside enjoying our gardens, more time during the year when things are growing and changing out there.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Well, Excuse me, but living in WI or MN for a few years does not qualify you to say that all New Englanders are weather wimps, especially when the obvious preference of those who are saying this is to live in New England's wimpy winter coastal zone lol!

Central - northern New England is for all intents and purposes as cold as the upper mid-West. Maybe those hardy northern New Englanders aren't posting here much? (too busy loading the wood stove and too short a growing season?) Anyway, Boston is a full zone warmer than where I live, and I feel zone envy towards those who live there or near the Coast.

Anyway, "where do I plant the palm trees" is right...as a gardener I want to go in the WARMER direction, not colder! My fantasy is to garden year-round...


 o
RE: Is this winter in New England?

You New Englanders will take advantage of any reason you can to complain.

As it began to get dark at approximately 4:55 p.m. on Saturday, October 29, 2011 the power went out here in north central CT a couple miles south of the MA state line. Electrical wires were ripped off my house by falling tree limbs, there were piles of broken tree branches on my driveway and front lawn higher than the roof of my house and a limb from the neighbor's tree punctured my roof. The entire town had no power, no phone service (including cell) & no access to the road but since it was completely blocked with downed branches & electrical wires, there wasn't anywhere to go.

As the sun came up October 30, neighbors began checking to see who needed help and how they could help them. My son somehow managed to get to my place and started cutting up the downed limbs. My daughter & granddaughter showed up and helped drag the limbs off the driveway. I fired up my woodstove and kept it going 24/7 until the power was restored...around 4 p.m. on November 10th. A few neighbors asked to come in and warm up...they did, but didn't stay long.

I used water collected in rain barrels to flush the toilet. I emptied the refrigerator and threw away several hundred dollars' worth of food. It didn't occur to me to apply for any government reimbursement for losses sustained from the storm.

People were traumatized by the severity of the storm and its aftermath. No one (except a few idiots) complained or whined about not being able to flush their toilets, watch TV, play video games or cook something on the stove. A few noisy generators ran 24/7 by those lucky enough to have them...but no one complained about it.

I learned it takes quite a long time to heat up a small pot of soup on the top of a woodstove.

Some folks did complain that with so many downed branches & electrical wires + blocked roads, their kids couldn't go trick-or-treating on Halloween. I don't think too many folks paid a lot of attention.

When the power came back on I simply cleaned the ashes out of the woodstove and hauled more wood inside so I'd be prepared for the next storm.

Is there a complaint in anything I wrote? The facts are that severe weather happens. Our ability to cope with & recover from it is a personal responsibility.

I heard folks complain about downed electrical wires, meters ripped off houses, damaged roofs and horses killed by barn roofs that collapsed after the storm.

I don't recall anyone complaining about the weather.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Uh, hardy does not include weather so catastrophic that it damages homes, knocks down trees, and kills or injures thousands of people. I think people have not only the right but the expectation to complain in those situations.

The last I checked the coastal areas are also part of New England. I didn't realize that the term "hardy New Englander" had a disclaimer with it that it only refers to people in far northern New England. If anything, this makes my point. Hardy New Englanders do not live in southern New England. There is no such thing.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

New Englanders, who perhaps are perceived as weather complainers, are truly not: They(we)are following the historical cultural scripts and tidings of our public discussion protocol set in motion by the Colonists. For centuries the New England weather has been a safe subject for public discussion, despite the velocity or direction of the wind. Observations of the weather are usually not 'complaints'; they are, quite simply, observations. How those 'complaints' are construed may depend upon the listener's ear, if unfamiliar with the custom.

This I think explains the weather talk nicely. We are programmd by the past still... and the local news responds. I mean think about it.. who STILL drinks the least Tea in the USA? new England... Why.. they switched to coffee after the Tea party...
Really we do all sorts of things that were handed down to us by the past that we do not even think about. The weather obsession is one of them.

Michelle---As hardy as they come a native New Englander and Bostonian who at 38 years old has seen her share of snow and done her share of shovling...


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

The comments about northern New England are well taken. I think part of the problem is the very idea that we generalize about "New England" weather, particularly in winter. New England is a big region. As one moves north, you not only increase your latitude, but you also increase your distance from the ocean and increase your elevation. All of those factors conspire to make a rather large winter climate difference from south to north in this part of the world. Hence the very tight climate zones on the USDA maps in new England from zone 7 to 3! So just like we don't talk about "Midwest Weather" (as if northern Minnesota and southern Illinois have anything in common) we probably shouldn't talk about "New England" weather without some qualifications. Note that in my comment I did give a shout out to those very hardy folks who reside in Aroostook County Maine! But I am willing to push that designation of "hardy" further south into other parts of norther New England. But Boston? Oh please. Maybe you have to be hardy to survive some springs in Boston, but winter??? I don't think so.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

  • Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 6, 12 at 11:23

The 'Hardy New Englander' discussion is becoming an annual (or sometimes biennial if treeoracle is feeling benevolent) forum tradition. I have to admit I'm kind of enjoying this one. rockman50 as always is talking a lot of sense.

Back when the New England Gardening Forum was first being considered, there were proposals to establish different forums based on gardening zones, but I think the New England region as a whole won out because so many people identify with it historically and maybe culturally.

But there is no way we can compare my wimpy winter (and nasty coastal storms) to blizzard-heavy weather in the northern states.

And, frankly, none of us on this forum, with regular internet access that's associated with electric service, lives in the harsh conditions of New England in earlier times. We can rise to the occasion and be 'hardy' during isolated weather events, but soon enough the power comes back on, the heat is back up, and we can drive out (or take public transit) to buy food and other essentials.

And when this 'Hardy New Englander' discussion runs its course, as it does most winters, we'll still have several months left of 'winter' to endure.....

Claire (complaining to pass the time to spring)


 o
RE: Winter in New England

It's only a guess but this might have been a 'hardy' New Englander:

Town of Templeton, MA
Cemetery: Old Burial Ground On the Common
Name: Mrs. Phebe Wiley, also Thomas (age 9 months); Silas (age 8 months); Samuel (age 4 years)
Death Date: "06 May 1791 with infant daughter at her left hand"
Age: in the 37th year of her age
Inscription: Friends and Physicians could not save
These mortal bodys from the grave
Nor can these graves confine us here
When Christ calls us to appear

She was married to my however-many-greats grandfather, Moses Wiley. According to the birth records, she bore him 10 children. He remarried in 1794 so it was Lydia Holmes of New Braintree, MA who was my however-many-greats grandmother. Her son David was born in Templeton, MA October 21, 1798.

I've been there, visited the Old Burial Ground on the Common and found their graves. Moses' mother is buried beside Phoebe but I've yet to locate Moses' or Lydia's graves.

I try to imagine what life must have been like for Phebe and Lydia in those days, especially during harsh winters, but just can't picture it.

Ancestry research is a great way to while away chilly winter days when the garden is dormant. Massachusetts kept fabulous birth, death & marriage records; New Hampshire not so much, or at least I didn't have any luck with NH.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

The colonist who lived in New England's "wimpy" coastal zone 6 probably had to endure harsher living conditions, even in the summer, than today's hardy zone 3 New Englander does in the middle of the winter! All this wonderful modern technology like plumbing and HVAC to keep us comfortable all year round. Personally I like a reasonably cushy life. :) Most New England gardeners would likely prefer the wimpy vs. hardy climate zone, as a growing climate anyway.

Gardenweed, I walk in cemetaries and read tombstones from time to time and it becomes obvious, 100+ years ago or so, it was commonplace for people to die young. I would have no doubt been dead by age 52, probably of something like a tooth infection!


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

This is a question for people who were around Boston's 78 blizzard. I wondered whether the weather panic got worse after that blizzard. I never remembered people lining up for milk and bread before that or the screaming weather forecasters.
But we didn't move to the Boston area until 79 from NH. There too, no one complained about snow; there was never a snow or ice day, churches didn't close!!! though Sunday school might be cancelled; and every kid played outside unless it really did get down to zero.
Then there was Ollie Olafson (honest) who, having not seen much of me over the winter, commented in an inimitable New Hampshire manner "uh, ya wintered well" The image of looking like an plump apple after a winter in the root cellar has never left my mind, nor the quote which is dredged up at least once a year.

I grew up in Baltimore, had parents from Louisiana and I don't panic about snowstorms. It is just weather. HOWever, when it affects my garden...windstorms that flatten the whole garden, droughts that kill, a heat wave that blasts all the tulips or peonies....that kind of weather I am absolutely entitled to complain about. And I do and I will. I"ll have plenty of company in these parts, too.

fun discussion. who cares if someone pops up like clockwork every year to razz us about it and we get sucked into it every time.
idabean


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Lived In New England all my life and the Blizzard of '78 is a fond memory. We were one of the fortunate ones, who did not suffer major injury or damage. The area was unprepared for that storm and it shut down everything for a week. I had never seen cars stranded on 128 before. People pulled together and helped each other out. It was a shared experience that brought people closer together and it was bliss for everything to come to a stop for a week. Like going back in time when there were no cars or electricity. Everyone had their own story to tell of how they 'survived' the storm. And yes, since that storm, weather forecasts have been over the top.

Weather is a shared experience that is a 'safe' topic of conversation, that I rarely interpret as complaining.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blizzard of '78


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Has anyone been following David Epstein's articles on long-term weather on Boston.com. He runs a video gardening/landscaping business and is a meteorologist (formerly on WCVB in Boston). This week's article is on how this mild winter is effecting plants in New England.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: How this mild winter is affecting your plants


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I was here for the Blizzard of 78 and it was one for the history books, as everyone knows. They predicted a storm but I don't recall them predicting what actually hit us. Remember Don Kent on WBZ? Now there was a classic New England character and a great weatherman.

What is not mentioned anymore is that even before the blizzard it had been a winter of constant heavy snow. It started snowing in early December and was bitterly cold so it never melted. I remember going to Christmas parties and the snow was already very deep.

Then, just two weeks before the infamous blizzard, we had a storm that put 22" of snow on top of what was already there in my suburb north of Boston. So the 30+ inches we got in the blizzard went on top of a very deep snow cover. Funny, after last year, I don't remember roofs collapsing. And we only lost power for six or eight hours.

Dukakis shut the state down, a wise decision, so we all stayed home and made do--talked to the neighbors etc. We had only lived here a year or so and I remember wondering if this was a typical New England winter....


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

It is just weather. HOWever, when it affects my garden...windstorms that flatten the whole garden, droughts that kill, a heat wave that blasts all the tulips or peonies....that kind of weather I am absolutely entitled to complain about. And I do and I will. I"ll have plenty of company in these parts, too.

BRAVO!!


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Ginny, you arrived just in time. (g) Now there is a name from the past, Don Kent. I had to look him up when you reminded me, and I was very surprised to realize he started as a weatherman in 1938, before I was born and didn't retire until 1983. He just died 2 years ago, evidently, at the age of 92. So we basically grew up listening to Don Kent.

I'd forgotten how much snow we already had, that is a good point. I also think the recorded amounts of snow received in that storm are deceiving because of all the wind and the size of the drifts. We have a photo of where the car was supposed to be in the driveway and you can't see it because the snow was higher than the roof of the car.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I have to make one correction to Ginny's memory. A few weeks before the infamous blizzard of 1978 we did indeed have a record-breaking snow storm that dumped a good 2 feet over much of eastern Mass. But the Blizzard of 1978 did not dump its snow on top of that snow. What most people forget is that about 1 week before the Blizzard of 78 a huge and historic storm moved up over Ohio and western NY...well to our west. That put us on the warm eastern side. We had very heavy rain and temperatures in the 50's which melted away all of the snow (except the big piles) from the previous blizzard...at least in my area of SE Mass. So we went into the Blizzard of 1978 with residual piles, but with bare ground. I recall being amazed as a kid (and weather-nut) how so much snow could melt away so quickly. That intervening warm rain storm was actually a very historic snow storm in the Great Lakes regions. So there were actually 3 historic storms in as many weeks in the eastern USA in late January-early February of 1978.

And today--Sunday the 19th of February--I am becoming increasingly amazed by how benign this winter continues to be. It is not just the warmth, but the lack of storminess as well. And dare I say it is getting a bit dry! I am wondering if drought will be the story for spring 2012.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I was just thinking the same thing yesterday, when we went past a local body of water and it was pretty low. Today, I decided to hand water two pots with evergreens in them that are out year round and an Arborvitae in the yard, that is sensitive to dryness. I always think I am dry when others are not, just from all the trees circling our property. I haven't checked, but my impression is that we've had very little precipitation in the past three months. I am wondering too how this will play itself out this spring. A late snowstorm, tons of rain, or more of the same?

I remember the Blizzard in 1978, but I really don't remember the weather leading up to it. That is interesting that we had rain. I'm in Metro West, and we are often different than what you get in Southeast MA, but we could have also had rain.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Apparently we are not having a winter this year! I call it the non-winter. This week is usually one of the biggest money-makers of the year for ski areas and I bet they are hurting. A snow plower I know said that he is planning his business around the assumption that there isn't going to be any more snow this year. The heating oil companies probably aren't thrilled either. The greater good is that everybody is saving a small fortune on heating bills, snow removal, etc. and we're burning a lot less fossil fuels.

I agree we could use some rain. Fortunately it has been a mild winter, because it would have been much harder on plants' roots to go through a snowless winter that was very cold and dry.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Don Kent! From my childhood in the 50s and 60s up until I moved from Boston to Vermont in the early 70s, Don Kent was THE weatherman. Sad he's passed on, but 92 is a long life.

I remember the snow of 1978. Here in northern NE it lasted nearly until spring. I don't recall any rain so I assume it fell as snow here. I also remember large snowfalls in the late 60s and early 70s, both in Boston and Vermont.

Thanks Steve, for the interesting and reassuring article. It sounds like, since I have no plants in containers wintering over, that I needn't have serious worries about the health of my plants, shrubs, and/or bulbs.

This is truly the oddest winter I can remember. Not a trace of snow, just an expanse of grass, green in patches.


 o
RE: You call this Winter?

We had a ton of rain right up through November so we went into our non-winter with the ground good and soaked. I just don't have any idea how long it stays that way but am thinking even that wasn't enough to carry us through a mostly snow-less winter. By this time last year I owed my plow guy several hundred dollars and my son-in-law's truck transmission blew from all the strain on it.

I just love that I've been able to hang laundry & bedding on the clothesline every weekend since last fall. I'm not only saving on heating oil, I'm saving electricity too not using the dryer.

I checked this morning and I have snowdrops blooming along my south (full-sun) foundation.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I started reading about 'snow water equivalent', the way to determine how much rain (equivalent) is in a given amount of snow, but I'm no meteorologist - maybe Rockman or another of our experts can help!

The SWE varies pretty widely; snowfall depth can be converted to equivalent rain amount by as little as 10% (!) or up to something like 40% - so it might take a foot of snow to provide the equivalent to 3 or 4 inches of rain.

So, maybe we're heading for a drought, or maybe not - but it seems pretty early to worry, especially since the weather is even more unpredictable than usual this year.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I cranked up the bbq today and cooked chicken. The grass is kinda a soggy half-frozen mess, so I am not going to walk around too much yet, but that first day of getting a close look at the gardens is in the air. You can feel the sun's angle changing.

The only complaining I did about the October snow was the nurtured trees and shrubs I lost from large oak trees and limbs crashing about. And I will complain about the money it's going to cost to have a tree company come in and finish the cleanup where my friend's chain saw couldn't go.

With today's oil prices, my oil bill is still sky high no matter the temp. I guess it could be worse (as a famous person has been known to say - LOL)

Complaining seems rational to me. It tips the scales the other way to balance out the mess. Mess. Complain. Move on.

I think the general approximate rain to snow ratio is 1" equals 1', but there are many variables. We're definitely on the dry side. Good reminder to water vulnerable evergreens. I am going to try to remember that the next warmer day we have - Wednesday I think.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Someone asked me in church yesterday how I happened to have such a good tan. I told her it was the result of this year's nonwinter gardening. I've spent many days outside this winter working in the garden. I'm making lots of new raised beds and the weather has been extremely kind. In my nearly seven decade lifetime, I've never seen any winter to compare to this one. For the most part this has been fortuitous but I too am beginning to worry about soil moisture.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Great thread�. from the reminiscences of the Blizzard of 78 to the winter tans we gardeners acquired this year!

Steve, thanks for the great link to growingwisdom.com and the use of Wilt Pruf, which is something I should use because we live along a windy river!

And yes, Vermontkingdom, I've also been worried about soil moisture, or I should say lack of it. Like many New Englanders we put our hoses away and turned off outside water in late fall.

Wendy, so funny! We've also decided to grill, especially since it will be in the 50s this week.

I love New England weather, even when it's abnormal as in this year, and don't ever want to move down south where weather stays more constant year-round. So even though we live along the Connecticut shore, I think of myself as a hearty New Englander � ready to face whatever Mother Nature throws my way!

Molie


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

The "water equivalent" precipitation is indeed the true measure of precipitation during a snow storm. Let your snow fall into a bucket (sides must be perfectly horizontal so that the surface area of the opening at the top is the same as the bottom of the bucket), and then after the storm just let it melt and use a ruler to determine how much precipitation fell. In SE New England we almost always have very wet snow, meaning 1 foot could hold 2 inches of melted equivalent precipitation. The snow is usually drier (the so-called fluff-factor) in areas N and W--so 1 foot in those areas might only contain 0.5 inches of melted water equivalent.

And yes, normally such a snowless winter can be hard on plants if it is also cold and windy (ugh...I can't get January 2004 out of my head---ever). But this winter has been so warm we have not had any frost in the bare ground, which is very unusual. From a temperature standpoint, locations in the far south of New England have experienced a very normal Virginia winter.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I'll say!Here in Dighton MA near the Taunton river.. The Canna tubers I left in the ground still look alive.. If that do not beat all for a NE "winter" nothing does...
If this is VA winter I'll take it!


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Vermontkingdom, I have spent unprecedented hours in the yard and gardens this winter! The combo of zero persistent snow cover + mostly frozen ground + lack of foliage has created perfect conditions for clean up, pruning, and invasive plant removal. I've gone nuts chopping out bittersweet, buckthorn, etc. from the remaining overgrown areas in the back part of my lot.

I've also already done open burning twice since the season started (Jan 15th in this town) and have numerous new piles ready to burn. I have never burned during the winter and am usually trying to cram it all in at the last minute before the deadline (May 1st).

I'm practically giddy with anticipation for Spring this year. Between the tree damage of the October snowstorm, a few hours of tree work that was done last month, and pruning out the lot, I might have noticeably more SUN on several of the gardens! I love my trees, but get terrible "sun envy".


 o
Shade study

Yep - another shade study is on my calendar even though I did one as recently as 2010. There's no question after so much tree damage there'll be a whole lot more full sun on my flowerbeds in the years ahead.

I took a chance planting some sun-loving winter sown perennials in beds where they only got a couple of hours around midday. They did okay but I'm guessing didn't really reach their full potential. It'll be interesting to see how they perform this year. By the same token, there are a number of part-sun plants that may not like where they're currently planted. I may find myself playing an extended game of put-'n-take this growing season!

Neighbor: What are you doing digging up all those plants?
Me: It's called gardening musical chairs! Wanna play?


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Gardenweed,

How do you conduct your shade study? Do you just select times and dates and then record which plants are in sun or shade? What dates do you use?

Steve


 o
Shade study info

steve_mass - in one of my gardening books, it says to do the study on June 21--the summer solstice--starting at 7 a.m. and continuing until 7 p.m. I created a grid in MS Word for each hour and each specific area of my garden/property and once an hour through the day I noted if it was full sun, part sun or shade. The full sun boxes I colored yellow so I had a visual of which areas of the garden got 6+ hours of sun.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Just back to the Blizzard of 78 for a minute. The storm about two weeks before was snow where I live, not rain. We were still talking about it when the blizzard hit.

The ground is not frozen here--very, very strange. And I took down so many trees near the house in advance of the October snowstorm--they had to go regardless--that I too am worried about my new sunny landscape and its effect on evergreens in particular.

As for grilling...what?...you don't grill when it's snowing? I have a great photo of my husband grilling in the "teeth of inclement weather" with a big grin on his face.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

Snowdrops in full bloom all over town now.

Ginny: Yes...the storm about 2 weeks before was indeed snow...everywhere. But there was a storm between that one and the Bilzzard of 78 which was rain in southern New England. That intervening storm is called the "Great Blizzard of 1978" in the Midwest. The link I provided describes the details. If you look closely at the weather map it shows southern New England in the warm sector---rain. That storm melted a lot of the snow from the 1st blizzard away--even in metro Boston. Most people just don't remember this one because it was rain. But it was a storm of historic magnitude in terms of barometric pressure and snowfall in the Midwest. That intervening storm was a blessing for us because it melted some (or all depending on your location) of the snow from that first blizzard....and then our Blizzard of 1978 happened about 1 week after that!

Here is a link that might be useful: Great Blizzard of 1978


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

I was pretty surprised to hear a robin this morning. Sure enough, I looked out and saw one in our tree. I think this is pretty early to see robins, isn't it?


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

  • Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 23, 12 at 12:42

Robins are around all winter here but I only see them when there's berries for them to eat. Yours may be singing because it's getting closer to spring.

I saw the first Red-winged Blackbird yesterday and today as well. A grackle is here too. This morning I heard a red-wing singing. The hordes haven't arrived yet though.

Claire


 o
Bird song

It's been so warm and pleasant this week aside from the wind, I've snatched every opportunity to step outside and check out things in the garden. The snowdrops are blooming and there are daffodils, crocus & hyacinth pushing up out of the ground.

The songs of the birds are so musical and pretty, almost as if the birds are just as pleased with this mild winter as us humans. There's a lot of activity at the feeders, especially a tan-colored plastic coachlamp feeder they all like best for some strange reason. They barely go near a similar feeder nearby. Even though it holds a lot of seed, I fill the tan plastic one every day but the other one has yet to need refilling.


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

  • Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 23, 12 at 18:09

Gardenweed: Have you tried swapping the two feeders to see if it's the tan feeder they like, or maybe where it's hanging?

Claire


 o
Feeders

Claire - I thought about switching them but it was one of the few windy, cold days we had so I put it off since I need to haul the ladder out to get one of them down. The feeders hang from branches in what's left of my crabapple tree following the October snowstorm.

Just saw about 30+ black birds ground feeding out there--they stood out against the half-inch of snow that fell overnight. Starlings maybe?


 o
RE: Are we going to have a Winter this year??

  • Posted by claire z6b Coastal MA (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 24, 12 at 10:40

Gardenweed: Now's the time for the blackbirds to migrate north and they're beginning to appear in New England. It could be starlings or red-winged blackbirds or grackles or brown-headed cowbirds, or a flock containing all of the above. A nice sign of spring.

Claire


 o
Migrating birds

Thanks, Claire - I think they were red wing blackbirds since that was the first one that popped into my head when I looked out the window. They all had a red/white mark at what I would call the shoulder, where the wing is attached. I Googled images and that's what it showed as well. They didn't look like grackles or cowbirds and they were all the same.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the New England Gardening Forum
 
 


 

 


Click here to learn more about in-text links on this page.



iVillage GardenWeb: The Internet's Garden & Home Community  
  iVillage Home & Garden Network