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isabella__ma

Nandina firepower or Woods Dwarf

isabella__MA
15 years ago

Hi All,

I've been researching the possibility of adding nandina's to my redtwig dogwood and Rhodie shrub border.

The nursery pics and write ups always seem to be over optimisitc and plagarized from each other to the point I don't know what to believe is accurate. I live in Southeast, MA, which supposedly is zone 6.

I'm looking for a plant that will complement red-twigs, colorado blue spruce, and Nova zemblas by presenting some foliage variety and color.

Any advice from other New Englanders (or others...!) would be great.

TIA!

Comments (14)

  • diggingthedirt
    15 years ago

    I have a few Nandinas, including 3 of the straight species. Not sure what variety the other one is; I'll check when I have a minute, but will comment on Nandinas in general.

    It always surprises me that these are not more popular around here; they look wonderful at just about any time of year. They're also slightly mysterious, because nobody grows them here. I've read that they're invasive in the south, but as far as I know that's not a problem this far north.

    The sprays of berries are the best of any in my garden - very bright, upright, and persistent. I think the flowers last a long time on the plant, but I can't swear that that's true, since my memory isn't too clear. I CAN say that they're bright white and very pretty.

    The winter foliage color is extremely variable; 2 of the 3 of the straight species, planted side by side in what I could swear is identical soil, have had beautiful red foliage all winter, while the 3rd is plain green. These plants, just a year or 2 old, were grown from cuttings of a single mother plant, according to Lazy S's Farm. I have no clue why one doesn't show any color - it's a nice, plain green.

    The only problem I've noticed with an older one, planted on the east side of my house, is that it has "traveled" i.e. laid itself down so that most of the new growth is a few feet in front of the root ball. I'd have staked it early if I'd been aware of this tendency, but it's actually fine as it is.

  • isabella__MA
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I agree with what you said. I have seen some of the Nandinas in the nurseries, but suspicious of buying bamboo. But according to the literature nandina is not a bamboo.

    I was also concerned about it being reported as invasive in the SE... it didn't get good reviews on Dave's plant index for that. However, I noticed that none of those folks with negative comments were from NE.

    If the leaf color hold it's red hue in the winter, then I think I'll give it a try!

  • diggingthedirt
    15 years ago

    I'm not sure it will be hardy unless you're actually in zone 6 - maybe it will need a slightly sheltered spot? It's done fine here over 5 or 10 years, but I'm on the Cape, 1/2 mile from the shore, where the cold nights are usually a few degrees higher than further inland.

  • hunt4carl
    15 years ago

    One of my favorite shrubs, hands down. . .and, as dtd observes, it seems odd that it's so underused. I've been
    growing them here in Z.6 for about twenty years. . .but
    Z.6 IS their limit - I've given dozens of seedlings to
    friends in the Hudson Valley and Southern Vermont (Z.5)
    and they just don't seem to survive over the long term.

    Nandina domestica "Fire Power" has astonishing, fluorescent
    red foliage all winter long, a real plus, and remains
    relatively small (just 18"-24" tall). . .I'm not quite sure
    how that diminutive size would balance with the larger
    rhodos and red-twig dogwood, but I sure know that I'd find out by trying it! "Firepower", to the best of my knowledge,
    does NOT produce fruit, if that's what you're looking for.

    On the other hand, my favorite Nandina, "Moyers's Red",
    DOES produce scarlet fruit clusters, has brilliant fall color (semi-evergreeen) and grows 4'-6'; I also grow
    N. "Compacta" (3'-4') and N. "Harbor Dwarf" (2'), both of
    which flower and fruit - there seems to be a Nandina for
    just about every situation. With the exception of "Firepower", which colors best in full sun, all my other varieties are growing in partial shade - and those growing in groups definitely fruit more prolificly than those standing alone, which is not an uncommon phenomenon.

    Another advantage I've discovered: they seem to be able
    to handle root competition - my original 20-year-old stand
    of species Nandinas are thriving at the foot of a huge
    silver maple. . .for the broadest assortment of Nandinas,
    I recommend Forest Farm - last time I looked, they carried
    10 varieties.

    Carl

    Here is a link that might be useful: Forest Farm

  • ego45
    15 years ago

    Eventhough I'm in 6b two previous attempts to grow nandinas was a somewhat bust. Not that they died completely, but they were very sorrow looking plants after the winter.
    Could be the wrong cultivars or wrong position, I don't know...
    Also, true or not, I've heard that sterile cultivars are more suitable (cold hardy) for z6.

  • hunt4carl
    15 years ago

    Hi, George!

    Maybe I'm not understanding the implications of the term "sterile", but if my Nandina's are thriving would I be
    getting so much fruit if they were sterile? Or does "sterile" just mean that those fruits/seeds would not
    reproduce? Oh, man, ANOTHER research project! :)

    And although my N. "Firepower" looks great all winter, the
    others (especially this winter) are looking pretty ratty -
    the birds cleaned off the berries long ago - but they always seem to bounce right back again in the Spring and
    bloom profusely. . . at the Spring CT Plant Swap, George,
    should I bring you a baby from my 20-year-old survivor?

    Carl

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    15 years ago

    Well, the first question when dealing with something where cold hardiness is an issue, is how cold have they been? What do they look like after sub-zero temperatures?

    To be honest, the idea that you can't get them established where I am, seriously sounds like they look at negative signs on the thermometer, say 'you've got to be kidding', and die. Otherwise, given our string of quite warm winters, they should be able to get through one or two, then croak.

  • ego45
    15 years ago

    Carl,
    "sterile" is sterile, meaning no fruits, and actualy your own phrases from the two different posts above:
    1)-"Firepower", to the best of my knowledge,
    does NOT produce fruit,... and
    2)-And although my N. "Firepower" looks great all winter, the others (especially this winter) are looking pretty ratty...
    if combined would support the theory/notion that non-fruiting(sterile) cultivars are the better choice for z6.

    I stated in my post that they didn't die for me completely, which is good, but they were terribly looking sceletons till early June, which is definitely not good in my books and thus were shovel pruned and given to a friend in a solid z7 on Long Island.

    "...should I bring you a baby from my 20-year-old survivor? "

    I already know where I'll plant it :-)))

  • isabella__MA
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Interesting... firepower is listed as non to rarely fruiting and considered to be more hardy than Harbors dwarf. I believe all of the other commonly available nandinas do bear fruit.

    Nandinas as a substitute for broadleaf evergreens that do well in my area, rhodies and leuchothoe, may not be the best choice then?

    I've just ordered Nandina firepower and compacta from Big Dipper Nursery, hopefully they will last more than a few seasons. I'll have to adjust the planting scheme in case they go semi-evergreen and leave holes in the garden. My USDA zone is technically 6B, but I usually get zone 5 plants. This will be an experiment for sure!!

  • isabella__MA
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Okay I'm reporting back on my first winter of firepower nandina. It did great last winter (2009/2010) here in Taunton (zone 5-6), but towards early spring/late winter the red leaves shriveled up to brown and dropped off just as the daffodils and hyacinth were blooming. Not quite the red/yellow flower combo I was hoping for. Maybe the indecisive start of spring fooled the plants or the lack of snow cover and the cold weather turned them semi=evergreen.

    Of the 8 I have three were gallon size and the rest were mail-order pints. The pint size runts have not shown any life yet, but the gallons are putting out some weak new growth.

    I have ordered zenobia for a trial planting!

  • diggingthedirt
    13 years ago

    Mine mostly lost all their leaves this spring, but 2 in a very warm part of the garden, did not.

    The nearly bare branch ends, which tend to be red, can be quite nice in very early spring - but it's not always pretty, or maybe not the look you're going for.

    (OT: I had to google Zenobia, and it was kind of difficult. My usual trick for limiting the search results to garden plants is to include the word 'hardy' in the search. In this case that failed because Zenobia was the name of a comic act and/or movie featuring Oliver Hardy (minus his old sidekick Stan Laurel).

    Anyway, zenobia looks very interesting!

  • hunt4carl
    13 years ago

    And here's follow-up from the "other" nandina lover. . .

    Isabella, even in my slightly warmer Zone 6, the nandinas have always been
    considered semi-evergreen. . .which would explain ego45's past reference
    to "skeletons' in the Spring. . .for me, it varies from year to year, but with so
    much else going on in the Spring garden, it hardly matters. That being said, perhaps siting them properly is the answer in any individual garden. Berry
    production was excellent again this past season, and a few of them are
    actually still there - with all the early warm weather, mine are already clothed
    in fresh new growth.

    But here's the surprise: I think I've changed my mind about the heavily
    promoted N. 'Firepower'. . .like everyone else, I was seduced by all those
    remarkable colorations through-out the growing season, but I've got to tell
    you, aside from the color, it's a stumpy, fairly ugly little plant. Now, I would
    readily admit that I may have them "improperly planted", but my 20-year-old "Mother Plant", all her babies, and my three other varieties, all look terrific. It may also be that I prefer relaxed, open shrubs, as opposed to the
    chunky appearance of the N. 'Firepower'. . .whatever, they're available to anyone at the CT Spring Plant Swap (May 16th) who wants to experiment with
    them !

    Carl

  • isabella__MA
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Hi - thanks for aharing your experiences, as I was getting concerned about my FP's. I was getting concerned about their health, as they looked so good all winter. I guess I'll be keeping them around for a bit longer.

    A possible alternative maybe the dusty zenobia, which is an east coast native (lower portion though). I have always been amazed that for any condition that there is a plant for it, and that I keep finding new ones to me.

    I tried to add a link to it, but was censored as the website that discussed it apparently is banned from citation by GW.

  • hunt4carl
    13 years ago

    Here's some info on Zenobia. . .

    Here is a link that might be useful: RareFind Nursery