Hi.....funny, I just put my Carol in the ground yesterday...I've been without mine for 4 yrs now and that's waaay too long! Actually, I found this the easiest shrub to grow. Had one at my Denver home for 9 yrs....planted it next to our walkway under a huge pine....very lean, gritty well drained soil that I made up after removing pretty much solid clay. Drainage IS the key. I guess she got some water...but we had quite a drought going on for 8 yrs so it wasn't that much. Like any plant, they need moisture for establishment but after that I didn't find her greedy. As far as a tap root? I never moved her so don't know about that...It was in morning sun, afternoon shade but that's cuz Denver's sun fries.

Oh, it's VERY slow growing so I don't think you have to worry about moving it the first several years...should be easy.

You'd better plant it somewhere permanently, they are intolerant of transplantation...and they do grow big (not tall, but wide) if they like where they are.
Mine is in part sun (morning till 11am), well draining, but unammended clay.

My 3 are in full sun. well-draining, sandy loam. 3rd year. no problems.

Ego 45,
OoooooooooooooooooH! Nice. Love your plant and love your photo. Looks like its an early spring bloomer, right along with ornamental aliums it looks like. Am I right?

Wendy,
Full Sun,huh? Sheez.

Anybody have this in a shaded position, getting sun only from 1 pm on....??

thanks for replies

Debra, mine from the picture above is in a part sun (till 11am) and open shade thereafter. It blooms in a last two weeks of May along with Camassia and right before alliums.

they are notorious in the trade for up and dying. at worst,i consider them expensive annuals. can't live w/o them; have lost many. drainage drainage drainage but then
sometimes they still die. go figure.
mindy

Oh no... even if they find a "happy" spot, they can still die? My 3 are in a foundation planting. That will leave a big ugly hole if they croak on me.

Yes Wendy, they famous for croaking for no apparent reason.
For the same 'no apparent reason' they could live for many years in places where one would think they'll die in an eyeblink.

George & Mindy,

Is this true of all daphnes or just 'Carol Mackie'?

I purchased what I thought was 'CM' three springs ago before it was in full leaf...turned out to not be 'CM' (no variegated leaves) but I like the shrub even better because it blooms on/off all spring, summer, & fall whereas 'CM' only bloomed for me once in the spring.

Mine is planted in dappled sun & appears to be healthy & happy (just finishing its spring flush).

Tricia

I have yet to get a photo of 'Summer Ice' this year and will try to this w/end. However, to show the possible size of 'Carol Mackie', here are a couple photos from last year (leave room; they get large):

2 CM

Look at how large one shrub is:

These particular shrubs were planted about 9 years ago. I try to plant my Daphnes on slight slopes for drainage. They get FS or PSH. I hardly ever give them supplemental water. I dug out the CM on the left last year b/c the middle was dying and I needed room for another shrub. The one on the right is also dying in the middle and might be taken out next year. I will probably replace it with a 'Summer Ice'.

Thanks George & Monique,

Lovely photos from both of you. I noticed that both of your 'CMs' were notably wider than tall. Mine is very upright in its growing habit being taller than wide. Since it was a mislabeled shrub, I've no idea if it's 'Summer Ice'. Oh well, while it does not have variegated foliage the on/off blooms all season more than make up for it. I didn't realize they could thrive in full sun (mine's in dapled sun)...so, since I like these shrubs so much I might see if I can find another.

Tricia

Tricia, if it is not variegated it is NOT a SI, but if it blooms all summer intermittently it IS a D.transatlantica.
Yes, at the young age they are taller than wide, but with age they will be rather wider than tall.
Mature speciman of SI at entrance to Oliver Nursery is 4x6.

Does the Carol Mackie have the same wonderful scent as the daphne odora? I am in zone 6 so I think the Odora will not survive the winters?

Well, here I am a year later and sad but true no Carol mackie ever grew. Hoping Bluestone will replace. I'd love to be able to tell you what the fragrance is like.... (sigh!)

That's too bad, debra. At least with Bluestone you probably didn't lose much money, but it's still a disappointment.

My old (5 years?) Carol Mackie looks pretty good this spring, but, after reading this thread, I went ahead and ordered a trio of tiny Summer Ice from Bluestone last fall - and they shipped yesterday.

Last Saturday I saw one at Avant Gardens; the nursery isn't open yet, but they gave us a tour of their garden during a pruning workshop, and were nice enough to identify everything we asked about. SI certainly looked a bit worse for wear after the winter, but they assured us that it's a fabulous, long-blooming plant and well worth growing.

Now that I think about it, it seems like it would be worth starting some cuttings from CM, in anticipation of her eventual demise. I wonder how hard they are to root ... will have to look into that soon.

Hi Diggin,

Thanks for the words of sympathy. When they come from a fellow gardener I know they are heart-felt.

Yes, I will re-order from Bluestone, but I'm wondering if I need a bigger baby to start with -- I guess I should have winter protected, but who knew! There was actually nothing to protect!

As far as cuttings are concerned, I am still amazed at the thread someone posted quite a while back about clematis cuttings.... Maybe you recall the thread. But this person simply took vines that had broken off of the bigger vine, cut them up and put them in a water glass and paid little or no attention to them all summer and by the end of the summer, voila! Each vine had white roots coming out of the end of the teeny little vine foot! And when I think of how I had babied my clematis cuttings! hahahaha

Maybe you should just take some cuttings, stick them in a water glass and who knows. You might just have good luck with your Green Thumb!

Nan, try to root them in wet sand/grit.

Yes, I think I'll try the sand, shade, rooting hormone and plenty of time route. I hadn't thought that they might root in water - or that clematis might. Interesting option!
Thanks - Nan

hi.

i just got a CM for my birthday and am so excited to finally have one of my own! i was planning to put it in a part of my yard that gets good light all day but only gets sun for the second half of the day. morning is a bit shady. though she is part of a finicky family, do you think my CM will do ok with afternoon sun rather than morning sun? i'm a gardening beginner and have been going on trial and error so far. But i'd love not to mess up my daphne... oh - one other question from this novice, my soil is a nice, normal dirt, not clay at all really. If i mix some sand and perhaps small pebbles in the dirt when i transplant her in, will that make for ok drainage?

thanks for all the good info!

Happy birthday and congrats on the new CM.

Everyone has their own opinion on this, but I'm convinced that sand is not a good additive - organic material will work much better. Sand turns into cement when mixed with clay, and there can be clay veins in your soil even if it's not characterized as clay soil (location info would help here).

Just plant the CM where there is never standing water, dig the hole *way* wider than the plant's rootball, and (this is now technically frowned upon) add lots of organic material when you back fill. Make sure it's not going to be lower than the surrounding soil after it settles - I think everyone agrees that planting too low is a death sentence. Mulch well, but keep the mulch a couple of inches away from the trunk (or stems, if it's shrubby).

I can't answer the aftenoon sun question, mine is in morning sun and has some shade in the afternoon. I think these can take full sun, but haven't really thought about them recently...

Mine faces SW and gets full sun from 11-6. Depending on location afternoon sun can be different. Where are you? It helps if you create a profile and put your location and zone in your profile.

duh... didn't realize I was posting in the new england forum. zone would still help. do you know what zone you are in?

Hello, Debra,

I just read your posting, and thought I'd add some thoughts which might encourage you to try Carol Mackie. I planted one several years ago when I lived in Providence, in a site with only partial sun but with very well-drained soil. It thrived and produced clusters of heavenly perfumed flowers for three years, until I went against the advice of my landscape architect by trying to replant it. I dug over two feet wider than the plant, and three feet down, but despite my best efforts, it promptly died. A cardinal rule for Carol Mackie daphne is NEVER replant it, once it has been planted. Another important point is to make sure that it is watered regularly until established, and to make sure that the roots never get dry ! I am doing a major relandscaping on 3/4 of an acre in Little Compton, and have a special spot for my next Carol Mackie. It's variegated leaves, rounded shape, and wonderfully perfumed spring flower clusters make it one of my favorites. I think that they're hardy, forgiving plants. If you decide to give one a try, I think that you'll be glad that you did. Good luck, Debra !

Well, here it is three full years after I started my first small plant of Carol Mackie and would you believe that Bluestone has send me a new plant every year that has not made it! This year I will make sure this plant lives. (I hope.) I really appreciate everyone's comments on this plant as I have heard that they are so fragrant and that is one of the gardeners best rewards, don't you think? Plus, it is not a common plant in everyone's garden, so I think if I CAN EVER GET THIS PLANT TO LIVE, I'll be happy!

I have two Carol Mackies, one on either side of an arbor with Zephirine drauhin roses climbing it. They are in their third year, and doing beautifully. In fact, this year they are experiencing a very limited second bloom right now (July). They have about doubled in size, and do have perennials flanking them -- salvia next to one, and Russian sage next to the other, and both have Ruby Glow sedum in front. The mulch is a stone mulch. They're planted in level ground in what I think is pretty neutral to somewhat acidic soil and get full sun pretty much all day. They do get watered from inground sprinklers every other day in the early morning. Now that it's July they are even bigger than in the photo. The photo below is from May 2010. I love them!

Very nice arbor, jodester16. I love those Zephirine Drouhin roses - and I hear they tolerate some shade. Hmmm... might have to go shopping.

Does the stone mulch interfere with mowing? I use bark, mainly because it slowly feeds the soil, and I always wonder how difficult stone is - getting mixed with debris from falling leaves, etc.

The stone mulch poses no problems with mowing. We do have that black rubber edge around it. Any leaves and stuff sort of blend in because the stone is so variegated, and the organic matter eventually decomposes and soaks in. We chose the stone because we never have to replenish it, but the one annoying thing is that it's a pain to work in when dividing plants that are already growing in it. You have to wear thick gloves to shove it out of the way to get to the landscape fabric and dirt underneath. But that's not all that regular an occurrence.

Here it is January 2011. My CM Daphne that I have babied for two years rewarded me this summer with more leaves and new growth. Not much, but I was optimistic. Now with this snow "tonnage" -- I am apprehensive, to say the least. Can CM survive all of this snow and below zero temps? Maybe I just wasn't meant to have a CM. (sigh)

Your stone mulch is intriguing, Jodester. I am not a mulch fan, but I do love the way yours looks. I've never seen this before. Also the rose and arbor are beautiful.

Debra -
I can't help with the Carol Mackie in snow, but if it doesn't survive, I'd advise getting a D. x transatlantica 'Summer Ice' which has done fine for me, despite sitting in a small pot all its first summer because an injury prevented me working in the garden, followed by two seasons with 9' and 10' of snow, followed by a December with -10 degrees and no snow. It flowers all summer, not in one big hurrah in the spring like CM. Last year it started in March when our snow disappeared (way earlier than usual) and continued into late October or early November when we had a hard freeze. The flowers are more subtle than CM, light pinkish purple in cooler weather and white when it's hot, and the leaves have a delicate white rim on the outer edges. It's one of my favorite plants and seems way less fussy than many of the other Daphnes are reputed to be. It has a different type of effect in the garden than CM, but it's a real all season workhorse with a nicer scent (to my nose) than CM. (Even if the CM does well for you, which I hope that it does, you might still want to look into this plant.)

Dear nhbabs,
Thank you for what seems to be very fine advice regarding
purchasing a D. x transatlantica 'Summer Ice'. I've looked it up on the 'net and it has a wonderful reputation not only for longevity and not keeling over for the slightest or no reason, but also for intermitent blooming throughout the summer rather than the one spring flush.
I'm trying not to get too excited about this plant, since you can see how dogged I have become chasing Carol Mackie for over six years now! (I have a Chinese Wisteria I have been waiting 23 years to bloom!) Thank you ever so kindly for this advice, as I feel certain that I may be able to deconstruct my love affair with Carol and concentrate on Summer Ice instead. Yippee.

Debra, I am near you and my Carol Mackie has survived several brutal winters and full snow cover and never fails to please in the spring. I think tales of its sudden demise for some is possibly incorrect siting. (hope I don't jinx mine by saying that). Also, I bought mature plants in 3 gallon pots. Not sure if that's related to the troubles you've had.

My Carols also get a second flush of bloom late in the season. I usually prune them after bloom so I may not be getting the most re-blooming possible. I think I pruned it heavily last year, so maybe I can skip this year and get more reblooming. I will try to restrain my pruning-happy shears.

Even though I am confident of their hardiness, I have noticed some oddball splitting of the wood at the crown on one of mine. Some of the roots look girdled. If mine does die, I would point to that as a possible cause before hardiness or siting.