I looked in the book "Dogwoods" by Cappiello & Shadow. They say a mature kousa can reach 25-30 ft or more with the same width. Michael Dirr in "Manual of Woody Landscape Plants" says the same with the qualification that it may be large or smaller depending on the part of the country. I would take that 30 feet, divide by 2 and add a couple of feet just to be sure that the dogwood isn't going to brush against the house or the roof, so your planting hole should be about 17 feet away from the house. It's really difficult for me to tell distance in the photos, so I can't help you with how that compares to the hole you've dug and the shrubs already there.

If you want quick shade while your kousa is growing, you can put up a tall trellis and plant vines, either annuals like black-eyed susan vine (Thunbergia), scarlet runner beans, morning glories (though in some areas they seed invasively, so you'd want to check first) or perennials like clematis or some of the noninvasive honeysuckles such as Lonicera sempervirens.

Thanks - I had one in RI, forget how tall it was when we bought it, it wasn't tiny, probably 4ft, but it seemed to be pretty slow-growing. We moved about 9 years after planting it and it was probably 6-7ft tall and 5-6ft wide. I'm not too worried about 30 yrs from now - if I'm still alive I hope to be living in warmer climate LOL. The hole is about 15ft (would have to measure) from the porch so it might do as long as it's OK to plant it on the slope? If not, we can move the cypress there and plant the tree where the cypress is, that's in shade a tiny bit longer in late morning, about 10-12 ft from porch. Of course, dogwoods have shallow roots and we are quite windy here so maybe 15-17ft from the house is best? The closer it is to the house the more sheltered is is though.

I was going to put some lattice at the end of the porch but I can't do clematis b/c of the deep roots, I pretty much need something that I can put in a windowbox on the porch floor or the rail b/c it's quite a drop at the end there, and I've got lilacs planted there (under the TV antenna) I hope to provide us with shade in about 15 years.

Kousas usually wider (or at least as wide) than tall.
SUV here is for the size reference

Hmmm, when I was at nursery looking for a tree (originally looking at Bloodgood maple) for this spot they said kousa could tolerate full sun. Lady who grew this one said it might not do its best there but for $15 it was worth a shot. Would we be better off with the Bloodgood (if I can find one for less than $100)? The dogwood might be OK over by the transformer where we get more shade, though I'd prefer it b/t the transformer and the house where it does get some sun rather than the driveway side of the transformer. The Alberta spruce aren't doing much, though they have new growth the first winter they dried out too much and don't have nice shapes, they're also too slow-growing for me. I *was* going to plant Siberian irises on the lawn side of the transformer b/c I think there's enough sun for them there and they grow tall quickly.

I thought kousa was resistant to borers?

ego, we were posting at the same time. How old was that kousa? I've seen dogwoods get huge like that, wasn't sure what kind they were though if they're white they're kousa? I'm assuming it will take decades to reach that size? The one I bought 10 years ago was a couple inches in diameter (trunk), this one is spindly. Like I said, I'm not too concerned with the mature size since we will have moved (or will move the tree) before it gets that big. The one we had (not as much sun as here) at old house certainly wasn't anywhere near that big a decade after planting it.

Kousa can easily take full sun in New England. That's not a problem at all. Planting it closer than 15 ft is also not a problem. There are many examples of Kousa in my area being planted right next to the corner of the house. I have one on the north side of my house and I planted it around 8 ft from the house. It takes a very long time for a Kousa to get as large on the one in the picture. That is a particularly exquisite specimen.

One problem that I see is the site is not dogwood friendly. I few inches of infertile soil on top of rocky fill in a dry, full sun location in a windy area is just not going to cut it for this type of tree. Another problem is that the dogwood is out of scale with the house because it sits so much lower than house. It's not going to get tall enough to look right. If more soil could be brought in and the retaining wall raised a bit then I would plant a large Japanese maple like the Bloodgood you mentioned. The contrast with the color of your house would look fantastic.

If you can't amend the area, then I would plant a tree that gets much taller than a Kousa and one that can tolerate the location. A juniper or spruce would fit the bill. An Eastern Red Cedar (juniperus virginiana) would look great. A blue spruce would be fine. I highly recommend the Serbian spruce. It looks like a narrow version of a Norway spruce. Actually, I like the Norway spruce a lot and it would be fine for a couple of decades but it would eventually require pruning to keep it from overtaking the house. All of these evergreens would produce minimum litter so your wouldn't have a huge issue with your gutters getting clogged. All of them would also contrast the color of your house really well. I think any of them would be a very attractive addition.

What a pretty house, and fun landscaping project! I agree with tree oracle. I think a kousa will look out of scale, being planted down that slope. Looks like you have plenty of room to find an alternative location for your new purchase. For there, a much taller growing option would look better. All of the suggestions about sound terrific.

I love that photo of the kousa above, and hope the one I planted 5 years ago someday resembles that one!

I concur with TO on several accounts:
a)Kousa can easily take full sun in New England. ,
b)The site is not dogwood friendly,
c)I would rather plant a large Japanese maple like the Bloodgood instead of kousa,
d)I would plant a tree that gets much taller than a kousa,
e)I highly recommend the Serbian spruce.

I also visualy see there Pinus flexilis 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid', relatively easy obtainable, fast growing and thus not expensive silver-blue pine.

I have to respectfully disagree with:
Kousa can easily take full sun in New England

I would amend to say Kousa can take full sun in New England if the soil is good and irrigation is reliable and extra TLC is given in the early years

The not dogwood friendly part does clarify that, but I wouldn't want N.E. folks to get the wrong impression and plant in less than ideal situations.

I looked for my picture of the stressed out foliage I encountered the first couple of years, but could't find it. it must have pre-dated my digital camera!

I had thought about terracing the slope but DH doesn't want to give up that much of the lawn - I convinced him to extend the bed out farther on the slope (where he dug the hole) but we're still negotiating how far out in front of the house (and existing plantings) to extend it.

I don't know where would be a good place for the kousa - in front of (house side) the transformer?

I can't find inexpensive Bloodgoods any more (Job Lot had them a month ago, DH said "For $60 I'd rather get it from a nursery with a warranty!" so I didn't buy one though they were closer to 5ft tall instead of advertised 3ft and looked healthy. Nursery where I got the cypress and boxwood 3ft bloodgood was $136. I did see some nice 4-5ft tall Japanese maples (Tamukeyama?) at a grocery store for $65. Would that be OK on the slope about 15-17ft away from the house?

We're looking for something deciduous to shade the porch in summer and add fall interest but we want the sun in winter. Something fairly small b/c DH is nervous about big trees near the house, and also doesn't want leaf litter in upper gutters though the porch gutters aren't hard to clean. Thanks.

Tamukeyama is one of my favorite threadleaf maples (A. palmata dissectum). It will not be tree-like, but more shrublike, but big. Mine gets sun 10-2. I've had it 6-7 years and prune to keep it in a 6' wide area. It wants to be WIDER! The books say 10'. Height seems to be consistent with the height at purchase time because of the grafting. Mine hasn't gotten too much taller over time. I'm not sure about the scale for your spot, but it would be beautiful to look at from the porch.

Another tree-like JM (Acer palmatum) is Emperor-1 if you should run into that one instead. It holds its color really well in the summer and leafs out later than others which is good for N.E. spring frosts. Bloodgood et als may green out in summer. My Emperor-1 is in almost full sun in average to poor soil.

I think the kousa would be great down by the transformer.

Our kousa is in full sun for at least half the day but gets plenty of moisture. I don't know how old it is (we moved to this house 7 years ago) but it could be as much as 41 years old, if planted in 1969 when the house was built (I don't think it was, though). It is as tall as our 2-story at-grade split-entry house ... just so you know they can get quite big. Ours is planted probably 10 feet from the corner of the house and I wish it was more like 15-20 feet. I will post a picture if I can find one!

Maybe I should start another thread about what to plant near the porch. The transformer area gets sun too but is more sheltered from wind. The only spots that don't get *all day* sun are back edge of back yard near woods and wrapping around the edge near leach field and kids' swingset.

Then the front past the edge of the lawn, other side of access road (where all the yellow ferns are) where we just cleared out all the stumps and brush that had been piled there during construction. Thing is, i don't know if we'd see it much there after a few years since I planted pines, laurels, and lilacs along the edge of the lawn to *hide* the view of the access road and brushpile.

{{gwi:52071}}

Found my kousa picture so here it is as promised. You can see why I wish it was further from the house!

Yes, I'd say if you want advice on another topic a new thread is in order. :-)

We planted it on Sat by the transformer where it gets some morning sun (starting about 8am this this of year) but by noon is shaded. Watered it when planted - I don't know if DH watered it yesterday, leaves didn't look so good this AM so I watered it again. The top few leaves were dead on Sat - either b/c of wind (driving 30 mph with top sticking out of sunroof) or dry. But this PM even the lower leaves look wilted and more are getting brown (though not dry) at the tips. This was in a big pot but basically a bare-root plant - really no dirt clinging to (small) roots at all.

Is this sunscorch? Just not enough water (skipped a day?)? Is it a goner?