No advice due to almost no experience with outdoor (or indoor) rats, but my sympathies! Gives me the heebeejeebies just thinking about it.

Ugh! And, ooh, that's too bad. What bad timing re the barn coming down - if it had been mid-winter they might have frozen and you might not have had this problem. I've heard of a colony moving like that before, when an old boarded-up hotel was razed downtown, but never knew anyone who had the immigrants take up residence in their garden.

My only first-hand knowledge of the beasts was gained when I was using one of those solid plastic compost bins for kitchen scraps. One day the small vents had been turned into holes about 3 inches across, which looked to me like the right size for a rat. I bought a tumbler, and use that now for anything edible - it can't be climbed if you keep the area around it clear. When that's full, the stuff goes into the plastic bin that's now securely wrapped in hardware cloth.

If you get really sad about not being able to garden, hop on the ferry and come weed over here. No rats, I swear.

KT, do you have a neighbor or friend with a good mousing cat you can borrow? Or would you consider adopting one (or three)? I know some people don't agree with keeping cats outdoors, but in a case such as this it might be just what is called for.

I really sympathize, as I, too, would be too scared to work in my gardens in this situation.

Rats are more than a pest; they are a serious health risk. Read "Rats, Lice and History", to name just one book.

For starters, it is sad but you should stop feeding the birds. Also stop putting food into your compost--only leaves, grass and other such garden debris.

Then put out both poison (which you have been doing) and rat traps, which should be checked every day. You really need to be zealous about this.

Then have your house checked for the tiniest openings by an exculsion specialist, as they call them in California, where rats are a big problem due to all the fruit lying around--oranges etc.

This will be a battle but you can win--eventually. Of course, if you have children or pets, it complicates things. It will take some time but it is a health risk, not just an aesthetic consideration.

Thanks for the empathy and information. As of today my game plan is to continue with the poison bait traps, snap traps, and we have talked our middle daughter into sending her NYC cat Ollie to us as a summer fresh air kitty. We will keep him indoors for the first 4 weeks and by then we should be able to remove the traps and let our borrowed NYC mouser do his thing for a few months. kt

Kt, in our previous house situated beside a southern lake, very large marsh rats were a major problem. Although this is not a solution for your situation, I found the rats were attracted to a bird feeder placed next to the water. This, in turn, attracted the attention of resident alligators who lurked just off shore and on many occassions I would hear a splash and turn in time to see a rat tail waving between reptilian jaws. Nature's rat trap.

By chance I did stumble on a method that works pretty well. As you have noted, rats like wood. I kept several planks under shrubs and the rats would tunnel beneath. Once a week I would lift the boards and drop rat poison down in the tunnels, then replace them. This kept the poison safely concealed. Once I began using this method I seldom saw another sign of rats. Perhaps this would work for you.

Rat bait here....for many, many years. No rat exp but tons of mice! The way it works is they eat the bait which makes them extremely thirsty and they seek out the nearest water source. Upon drinking, the poison is activated.

Pretty sure that's right...

Hope the kitty isn't one who likes to deposit "gifts" by the back door!

nandina,
Hands down by far you have officially won the title of bravest gardener on GW. The plank of wood under some shrubs is an excellent idea but the even the image of myself lifting a piece of wood to throw bait down a tunnel is enough to guarantee a sleepless night.
jant,
We are hoping that since our borrowed kitty is from NYC that he'll be sophisticated enough to realize that an unexpected gift left on our door step can be a real burden.

I will spare you all further gruesome details but both the poison and snap traps have some unpredictable and dark realities. Hmmm I suppose the opportunity for someone to build a better mouse trap is still a contemporary challenge, and yes I would pay big bucks for a trap that also disposed of the rat as well.

Kt,
Im sorry to hear your invaders have limited your enjoyment of the garden this season. I just wanted to point out how ridiculous this world we live in has become.
This summer, you are spending time and resources, and importing ferocious manhattan felines to help displace a hungry herd of rats.
Yesterday, I had a client spend $400 to have me remove a few mammary masses from his pet 2.5 year old rat. I have had numerous clients with pet rats have me perfrom multiple sugeries to try to improve their comfort and extend their lives.
Maybe I could just send some of my clients to your house to domesticate some of your baby rats and we could save you each a few bucks?
So what are you doing with the decease rats? Are you composting them? Or because of the poison, are they part of the refuse stream?
Greg

Greg great idea regarding hooking up the rat lovers with the rat phobics. Have you considered designing a web site similar to Match.com? What do you think of my rats bio? Preppy Martha's Vineyard Rats looking for new home, have had plenty of contact with humans, loves walks through the garden, eating with neighbors birds, favorite food cracked corn but doesn't mind taking a bite out of gardeners ankle if cornered. kt

kt...
Im laughing very hard..good attitude..Greg

It sounds like you have the bait stations already. I thought it could be worth a link.

Storyteller,
Thanks for the link it is much appreciated but as it stands now I have a pest control company baiting and monitoring the bait stations, the fellow has responded to all of my over the top phobic requests and was even willing to laugh at himself after he admitted that rats were his favorite part of the job. My husband has been in charge of the snap traps that he monitors twice a day. Again I will say that there doesnt seem to be any one perfect form of extermination.
My next step is to contact the county rat control guy to stop by and do a review of my property and hopefully talk to my neighbors who are not taking this as seriously as I am. Hopefully he can suggest with authority that they stop feeding the birds, empty the bird baths, lift up the sections of stockade fencing that are laying flat on the ground and providing a preferred style of rat housing. kt

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/winter/msg0210400812540.html?44

There is a long thread on the winter topic of the site about rats, bird feeders, and a lot of other difficulties. Perhaps that is the other thread you mention, but it is an interesting read for anyone who missed it.

In any case, I thought the recommendation to add hot pepper to the bird seeds is great. If it really works, you can feed the birds who do not taste the pepper and keep the other four legged friends out of it.

story teller,
Thanks for the link it is a very interesting thread, what caught my eye was the suggestion to get a opossum to get rid of the rats. I was told recently when they first started the "big dig" they fully expected rat problems in the North End and in the Revere area so they brought in opossums and it did the trick. Of course the opossums made and continue to make pests of themselves burrowing under garages ect.
I am not fully sold on the hot pepper idea in the bird seed. The corn and seeds in bird food are rats food of choice in the wild and a powerful draw. Have you come across any other info on this? kt

Out of curiosity, I looked up the hot pepper information. There is a bird seed company that treats their seeds with the pepper. People can also buy suet treated this way. Apparently birds cannot taste the pepper. (Although it would be fun to say birds like it hot!)According to the information, mammals do get all the effects of the pepper.

The company advertises the treated seed and suet as keeping squirrels away. It is irritating as eating the wrong really darn hot pepper in that restuarant by accident, but apparently not cruel. A lot of individuals on the net are saying it also keeps the rats away.

If it works on squirrels, it has to be a pretty effective technique in some ways. People love their birds so if it is effective on rats too, it is a good solution. When a solution works for the greatest number of people, that is pretty much when there will be buy in. Otherwise, there is a lot of resistance.

There are studies done on squirrels. It looks like it is worth a try on the rats. Let's hope they don't prefer to eat out Mexican style food. ;-)

Hi Runktrun,
I am so sorry about your rat problem but at the risk of making myself unpopular, what happens to birds (hawks, owls,etc ) that eat the poisoned rats? /Abi

Great info story teller I'll certainly keep my mind open on the subject but after my experience I am too shy to reintroduce standing water ie bird baths or bird seeds. I do however provide plenty of fruiting shrubs and trees that the birds can enjoy and I hate to think about it but I am sure blueberries, crabapples, ilex berries are enjoyed by rodents as well. I suppose this is all a population management program with the ultimate goal of keeping the rodents out of my living and gardening area.
Abi,
You bring up a good point and the sad truth in all of this is there really is no one perfect solution. Without becoming too descriptive I will say the poison was the most effective to date. The rats after they ate the poison tended (not all of the time) to go back to their home and die, we were able to determine their location and dispose of them because of the very distinctive odor. The snap traps (which we stopped baiting) killed a number of birds and mice but no rats (maybe they are all gone). I did call the exterminator regarding secondary poisoning at the advice of a forum member, the response was a non scientific opinion so they mailed me to gov. specs of the bait and bait station which is as difficult to understand as my homeowners insurance. But if I am correct in my understanding of this, the amounts used in the bait stations to cause death to rats either by ingestion or skin contact cause no reaction in rabbits. Again there was no mention of secondary poisoning but being pet owners (Ollie our NYC city slicker kitty has arrive and is protecting the inside of our home)we are doing our best to be responsible. The bottom line however is rats are a real health threat that are difficult to get rid of once they have moved in. I am at the point now where talking to my neighbors has gotten nowhere and the county rat control agent will not approach them without a request from the board of health who I now feel compelled to petition. I really hate being put in this position but feel the need to get a handle on this before the cold weather comes. I ask with no malice, what would you do? kt

The neighbors is where the pepper suet and seed might come into play. They can treat the seed themselves with pepper from home, buy treated seed or suet, or purchase the commercial brands of Squirrel Away or something like that to put on their seed and suet.

There has been a lot of news regarding birds of prey and secondary poisoning due to rat poison. It was a big issue in 2002 when the National Park Service tried to eradicate rats and the dead birds of prey were found to have traces of the poison in their systems.

I have a cat, and have always had a cat that patrols the yard. I bring her in at night and she typically has a rodent or two in two even during the day. That is also criticized though. Believe it or not, I leash trained Little B when she was a kitten, so she does stay in the yard to people's amazement. However, advocates for the Birds of Prey talk about how cats are a problem. From my point of view, most birds of prey are too large for the cat to handle.

Unfortunately, we also have a neighbor with another difficulty. He feeds a large group of half-feral cats creating a colony of unvaccinated animals living in the neighborhood. I do not care for that, but only the top of the line rodents have an opportunity to survive around here.

I thoroughly sympathize with your rat problem. From what I've read lately, the health problem includes LYME DISEASE. They harbor the deer ticks just like the mice and chipmunks do. And I am deathly afraid of Lyme after my maltese caught it and was paralyzed before I discovered what the problem was.

I know that there are different poisons or doses which are permitted in some states but not in others, so I cannot advise on that. But there is a bait you can get in small packs from Valley Vet that allows the rat to carry it home to the nest. It dries up the blood, and dessicates the dead animal, so usually, even in hot climates, there is no odor. If there is no odor, dogs would not be interested in bringing home the carcass as a treasure.

When I had problems at my house in Alabama, they came up around the air conditioning pipe from under the house. I found that they'd eaten through the cedar closet and gotten into the house. It turned out that my attic residents were squirrels. I discovered it one night after a ruckus in the back bedroom. I thought the dogs had disturbed the cat, who sleeps in that room. I closed the door, and checked in the morning. There was only the back half of the squirrel left, the cat ate the front part. That bushy tail meant squirrel plain and simple.

I ordered the bait and put it in the attic. It did stop a couple of rats too. But I put hardware cloth over the roof spinners/turbines and that kept any more from getting in. Of course, I also baited inside the crawl space under the house after sealing it everywhere. So far I have not had another incident with squirrels or rats down south.

Up here, my little dachshund, huntress that she is, caught a mouse as it ran across the family room. She did it so quickly I thought she didn't understand I wanted her to catch it. She had slung it, after breaking its neck, under the end table where I found it at bedtime. Once it was dead, she was not interested in it.

Vermin give me the creeps, and I hope your problem is soon resolved.

Runktrun, believe me I am not judging you. I once had an indoor mice problem. One of my roomates ( way back in college) thought one little mouse was cute. So he fed it. Soon mice were everywhere! The last straw was when I put on my jacket and mice jumped from the pockets. I got a cat. A very big cat and that was the end of that. But yours is an outdoors problem which is very different. If there isn't one already then maybe we should invent a rat trap tht lures them in but not out. Good luck kiddo sounds like you need it. BTW, I do feed a couple of colonies of feral cats. Slowly but surely they are almost almost all neutered. Check Alley Cat Allies for possible SNR programs in your area. /Abi

It would be nice if my neighbor would get the animals neutered and get them their rabies shots. They only last a year or two at the most.

My major objection to the animals is that they become half-friendly. We did have a few instances of rabid animals. One of them was a raccoon in the yard that was killed, picked up by some state service, and varified as rabid. So some of the kids are exposed to the animals. Cats hunt rodents and without their shots, they could potentially expose other animals and people to some nasty stuff.

A year or two ago, I read how the places that spay and neuter the feral cat colonies are also working on putting something in their feed for rabies. I don't think they are there yet though.