Yikes ! Never should have looked at this before bed time. . .now I'll be awake
all night with my creative gears grinding. . .

Quick questions: will there be water available for this site, or should all plants
be totally self-sufficient? Is this a "private" area, or is it exposed to public view?
Can the wall be used, i.e. plants above, cascading down? Any shrubs allowed?

Carl (wide awake now!)

Yes, I think there's water right above (at the house). It is visible from the street (through some trees, so slightly obscured but not entirely). The house is set at an angle to the street (as is this planting area), so if one glances sideways driving up the street past the house, one would see it, but it's not a frontal view (and you'd have to turn your head to look driving by, otherwise you wouldn't see it at all, I don't think). The wall itself faces toward a slope down to a wooded area and another home and is at nearly a right-angle to the street, not quite. So I'd call it "semi-private"?

Wall can definitely be used to cascade down (I already gave her some Basket of Gold Alyssum from Bluestone Perennials to plant on top -- I love the look of that on a stone wall, and one of our mutual neighbors has it cascading down a beautiful old wall in front of her home. There is plenty of planting area on top of the wall, where she currently has the tall grasses you can see, some new perennials (foxglove) and a few other things including one more multiflora at the end closest to the foreground. I'm sure things could be rearranged up there.

I would assume some shrubs would be okay but imagine she doesn't want things that need pruning AND doesn't want to be overrun again.... I personally was seeing a sort of undulating bed along the wall (which is probably at least 100 feet long? Maybe more -- we should measure it, I guess) with stands of iris or some such against the wall proper, and maybe a stone path (informal one with irregular pieces of bluestone)dividing the area into the beds along the wall and a planting area "downslope" ... that's the area where I get stuck. Groundcovers? Groupings of perennials with different bloom times? Cutting beds? Gently terraced beds with herbs, perennials... The whole area slopes gently down to the woods. She wants to use it all for planting (no grass if possible) to take advantage of the sun (it's very shady in her back yard).

(Of course, I also "see" a little seating area with a couple of chairs and a table just large enough for a couple of margarita glasses tucked under that wild cherry in the middle ... but that's just me. :)

Does this help?

How will she access the site from the house? From the left of the wall or the right? Will she have an easy sloping route to trundle a wheelbarrow and tools down to the new area, or maybe the new area needs a tool shed of its own.

Areas like this sometimes get overgrown just because it's a pain to get to them. I would think the vegetable plots and/or cutting gardens should be close to the main access point, and plants that look good from the top of the wall could be farther away.

Claire (trying to be practical before indulging in pretty thoughts, like making the walkway down into a special experience by itself)

Personally, I'd put down grass seed on about 90% of it. At least. It's a big area. It's a really big area, and anything else is going to take a lot of time (like her entire life) to maintain.

So start with a bed running along the wall. A fairly wide bed because the space is there. That's going to be about 600 sq ft of planting area. GRASS THE REST! Then, in a couple of years if she is still thinking about an enormous garden, it isn't that difficult to smother the grass and make it bigger. Just unless she is an experienced avid gardener, or has the resources to hire experienced garden help, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

mad_gallica makes a very good point about the amount of work that's implied by developing this landscape.

One way to cut it down to a more manageable size is to replace that tree stump with another big wonderful shade tree with seating underneath. I suspect that the original tree was a major focal point. There would still be plenty of room for reasonable plantings along the wall and to the sides.

Claire

That is a lovely old fashioned stone wall and it is amazing that your neighbor was able to reclaim it from the multiflora vines unscathed.

I think I would plant some perennials in front of the wall that would allow the wall to be visible through the flowers, and I like the idea of a tumble of squash and melon vines growing in front of or beside the flowers. I guess rudbeckias and daisies are annuals, but those might look pretty.

I agree that chairs or a bench beneath the little tree would be perfect, and I also share Claire's vision of a gardened pathway leading down to the area in question. And I too would seed a lot of it in grass and confine the gardens to an area directly in front of the wall.

Yes, it's a remarkable transformation!! (Standing where this photo was taken, you would not have seen any of the house prior to removal of the multiflora, not to mention the wall... which was completely hidden.)

There is easy access from the right of the wall, a gentle slope down from the upper yard and the drive (which is also to the right, out of the picture). One could drive a lawn tractor down there quite easily. The truck that delivered the compost load had no trouble getting into the area and was able to dump it right by the wall (so there's a fairly wide area to access it).

I don't think she or I had considered grass (I think I've been to too many conservation talks where lawn reduction is all the rage -- grass never occurred to me!) I wonder if there's an alternative to grass... Maybe an attractive, low-maintenance ground cover for the lower areas (something that would also hold the soil in place), then a narrow (winding) little stone path of some sort to delineate the beds from the rest of the area, and undulating beds along the wall?

Thanks to all for the ideas -- any other thoughts from all those creative minds out there?

It is a large area. I would be curious what the dimensions are. I love that wall, it's spectacular! I bet she is amazed to have dug that out of a wild rose patch. I think it is a significant landscape feature and deserves to be a focal point. Never having had a beautiful wall like that, I'm not sure how you plant in front of it to make the most of it. Since the area is mostly full sun, I would plan to make the most of that by planting all the full sun plants she would enjoy growing.

She could plan a potager with raised beds. A planting bed along the wall about 5 feet deep with a 2-3 ft path along the outer edge of that. Raised vegetable beds could be constructed that would meet the pathway or the bed along the wall, if she didn't want a long path. Lots of different configurations you could do and different sizes and shapes of beds if you wanted to make it interesting. Since it is such a large area, melons and squashes would travel and eat up some of that real estate without very much effort. Although she might want to plan on using row covers to keep the squash bugs at bay. She could even construct some glass tops for some of the beds to extend the growing season for greens and root vegetables and get an early start for hot weather veggies in the spring, like tomatoes and peppers for the sunniest area. If she wanted to take up some more real estate, she might add a shed in the shadier part of the area. Strawberry, Raspberry, and Asparagus could have their own beds. Herbs, such as chives and parsley, basil, etc. could be added to all the beds to attract beneficial insects. Nasturtiums and the usual cast of annuals that fit well into the veggie patch and could be easily winter sown every year. Blueberry, low or high and Sour Cherry shrubs could be added along the sides or lower on the slope so their position wouldn't hide the wall or create shade where you don't want it. Pathways between the raised beds could have either cardboard and mulch or weed fabric and mulch or cover crop. Along the slope, clover and hairy vetch for bees maybe mixed with some other cover crop that would not grow too tall, that could be mowed when she wanted to and left to grow and flower and produce seed and be self sustaining. It could also be a living mulch anywhere she needed it, under blueberry shrubs etc, to keep the maintenance and weeding low. It could easily be turned under and improve the soil if she wanted to add something later. There could be tall bamboo teepees for beans and peas and bird baths for the birds and a cute little sitting area with a table surrounded by low growing bloomers, like alyssum, veronicas, etc. and a few containers of annuals for accent. She could put up a short picket fence with a gate at one end.

Other thoughts about what it could be used for.... a greenhouse, a butterfly and hummingbird garden, a cutting garden, a garden specific to plants that are dried for arrangements, a conifer and heath and heather garden, a fruit orchard with an underplanting of cover crop to keep weeds out that would only need mowing. A huge sunflower patch. A lavender hedge in front of the wall that could be dried. A cash crop. A wildflower meadow.

Come to think of it, the New England Wildflower Society does consulting and designing, you might want to send them a photo and ask for suggestions casually by email and see if someone there offers any really interesting ideas. I think they are used to assessing planting conditions for what would naturally grow there.

Whatever she ends up doing, should be exciting and fun. She's very lucky to have such an opportunity. Hope she will post photos of the project as she goes forward. She could even start a blog just to document from beginning to end.

Here is a link that might be useful: You may ask, why cover crop?

I guess I am going to be bucking popular opinion here but I nearly gasped when I saw that beautiful stone wall and the last thing I think they should do is hide it all over again with a perennial bed right in front of it under the premise of softening the stone work. I recently had a stone fireplace built that I love and one of the first comments made to me (by a landscaper) was how beautiful it will look once I have one of my vines growing up it! The thought had never entered my mind that I should hide or soften the stonework but like a good little design sheep I followed the rules and now have not one but two vines growing up the chimney. Tell your friends to stand strong and be careful about hiding/softening the stone wall, it is beautiful just as it is.

My second suggestion would be to take a walk into the immediate surrounding woodland and check out all of the plants. Make note of those that you are likely to be fighting off for years to come (better to be forewarned) and those that you might welcome into your design. For example in my woodland there is a perennial clumping grass that I have been transplanting and encouraging. This grass does not need mowing but isn't unhappy if I mow once or twice a year to keep other invasive plants at bay. This is is an on going project (year three) and each year I am happier with the results.

I happen to think you could fill up that space in no time particularly if you are thinking of using the area for multiple purposes. My first thought was the space reminded me of a Gordon Hayward design, perhaps for inspiration you might suggest to your friend to pick up a few of his books from the library.

The slope screams to be terrace with stone perhaps that area could be for the perennials which would allow for flowers essentially in front of the stone wall but at the same time not hide the wall.

I think your friend has been given some wonderful suggestions from other folks and I would love to know what they decide to do with the beautiful space.

I would not like to see the wall hidden again either. I was thinking if they were planning on planting in front of it, they would be planting short plants. Or daffodils always look nice in front of a rock wall in the spring and if there is a short ground cover in front of the daffs, enough to disguise the dying foliage, then the wall would be visible most of the season. Maybe with some native ferns mixed in here and there...if the light conditions made that possible.

But it is a LONG wall...did I read 100 ft possibly? To plant it with only one or two kinds of plant along that distance sounds very boring. I would be interested to hear if anyone has a rock wall that they have planted that allows the wall to still be visible.

I agree completely with Katy and Ann that the wall should not be hidden. Let it show in it's glory! I might plant a small bed or two along parts of it, and maybe a meandering pathway with a couple of beds out in the open area. All the plants would be fairly short to allow the wall to be seen. The overall effect would be a pathway meandering between the wall and the two or three small beds against it, and the other beds out in the open area, so that you could stroll among the plantings. A few tall plants could be placed here and there for effect, but not so many as to cover up the wall. The beds, especially the ones away from the wall, could be mounded slightly for interest too, just not too high.

Yes, it's approximately 100 feet long. The far end (most distant from the camera point), probably 10-15 feet of it, is in full shade, so no perennials there...probably should be filled in with hostas or other shade things (shrubs?) to keep it from being filled back in by invasives, etc. I think part of her goal is to handle this area in a way that allows it to be usable (flowers, veggies) while holding the invasives at bay so she doesn't have the same problem again in a few years. It's a very informal yard in general, so the main idea is to leverage this new space, while taking advantage of the beautiful wall as a backdrop, without creating spaces that are particularly formal and/or maintenance-intensive.

Hope that makes sense? Personally (speaking as one who doesn't own this house or yard, so I can fantasize to my heart's content!) I like a lot of these ideas: raised potager beds, meandering path, cutting beds, ground cover (LOVE the image of melons and squash cavorting through a clover-covered slope! a pollinators' paradise!) I agree that the wall should absolutely remain visible, though I was seeing perennials clumped along it -- a clump of iris here, a stand of coneflowers somewhere else, the wall peeking out between and above them. I think I would mix heights, allowing some taller things but mixing that with lower things so the wall would visible in some areas, more obscured (in summer) in others... but that's me (and it's not my wall! :)

Is there a good computer software program that would allow one to play around with designs for a project like this?

ctlady, It was not registering with me that she might have a problem with invasives returning. I had an area in my yard that had a perennial grass weed of some kind and I tried pulling it and even rototilling to get it all out and that only made it worse. I thought I was rid of it and replanted the area and it came back again and I had to lift all the plants again. What a pain that was. Some of them I wouldn't use again because I was afraid the roots of the weed might be entangled in the plant roots. So I left that area for a year and a half with clear plastic covering left over from an ice rink. I lucked out and it was hot and dry that summer and that treatment really worked. It solarized the soil and smothered out the weed but I see that three years later, in the edge of the area where it was shady, a few pieces of it are back again, *sigh*. I'm not going to try to pull it, I've learned my lesson, but I've kept my eye on it and quickly covered it with two layers of cardboard and a thick layer of bark mulch and will just have to continue to be vigilant.

Depending on what the invasives are that she is dealing with, I'd try to find out what the best way of irradicating them is before I invested a lot of time and money into replanting that area. I'm organic and would not use a chemical and went to great lengths and inconvenience to find an alternative but it was so worth it.

Would it be wild roses that she would have to worry about?

Prairiemoon... yes, primarily multiflora (wild) roses that had overrun things, though I'm sure there were other things mixed in (vines, etc.) not to mention, I'm sure, lots of critters that are now homeless :) The multiflora is what you could really see, huge, sprawling ones, higher than the wall. She was thinking of doing the plastic covering route for the slope area this summer since (a) she knows it's probably unrealistic to try to tackle the whole area at once (but she wants a develop a plan so she knows where she's headed) and (b)there are definitely still bits and pieces of multiflora roots everywhere despite the best efforts of the guy who pulled them out to get rid of the roots. Might be well worth it to cover it for a year, concentrate on the area along the wall and putting in some kind of path, then tackle the area below the path next spring, after a year of plastic cover which would hopefully eradicate most of the roots (though with multiflora, I'm not sure even that does the trick?) I think the alternative, to keep the weeds, etc., down, might be to go ahead and broadcast a cover crop like clover or some such, let it fill in over the summer and fall, and hope it will discourage some of the weeds, if not the multiflora...

She's very aware of how quickly the woods will take the land back if given half a chance!

The secret is a lawnmower. Seriously. None of those invasives can handle being more than three inches high, and they end up giving up. The only other realistic alternative is heavy use of herbicides. A cover crop is a non-starter. That is going to accomplish nothing. Though clover can be mowed, and make a satisfactory lawn. We do not get the heat necessary for successful solarization, and anyway that would be an enormous amount of plastic.

It's good that she's already thinking along those lines. I only have my small experiences with managing invasives. I have no experience with wild roses. It almost sounds like she would get the best input from someone who has actually done reclamation. I'm sure there are lots of people who have gone down the same road she is about to go down and can offer very relevant information. I would be surprised if someone over at NEWFS wouldn't be able to help, or at least point her in the right direction for help...at least some solid advice.

There are lots of different cover crops. I've used Hairy Vetch, which I really have liked. It's easy to turn in and breaks down fast when you are finished with it. Johnny's Seeds in Maine is one company who offers a number of cover crops and has some knowledgeable people who can help you figure out which one would suit your situation best.

Of course, if she has the time and energy and sees the whole thing as an adventure, she can just take it step by step and figure it all out trial and error. Sometimes after all the input and advice are in, you end up having to do that any way. [g]

I see a book at the library called "Invasive plants : a guide to identification and the impacts and control of common North American species by Sylvan Ramsey Kaufman and Wallace Kaufman." Copyright 2007. Might be worthwhile to see if there are any new ideas.

What I did was not necessarily complete solarization. Whether my plot that I layered with plastic reached a temperature high enough to kill every pathogen or weed seed in it, I have no idea. All I know is that I had completely given up on using that area as a vegetable garden because of the work and annoyance of trying to grow anything with one particular weed that invaded the area. It was unused for 3 years until I finally tried the plastic route, after reading a post on the Organic Gardening forum where someone suggested that pulling it was breaking up the roots and leaving little pieces there that kept coming back and what it really needed was smothering. All I know is that I now garden that area without a problem and it is doing very well. I had the advantage of having a very large roll of plastic left over from making an ice rink for the kids when they were small. It was large and had no holes in it and couldn't have been more simple. We weighted it down with bricks and just left it as we went about working on other areas. Our area was not as large as yours.

O.K. A huge space! Hard to believe that one brave individual is going to undertake the whole transformation. . .

Some random ideas. . .but that single angle photo, without being completely
aware of what's just "off-camera" might render some of these suggestions
useless:

Of course, you MUST be able to see the wall. . .that's the whole point of uncovering it, no? Well, at least the bulk of it, say 80% of it. . .I'm with Marty
in planting a long bed of mixed perennials along the wall, mostly low (12"), but some varying heights. . .I'd also mix most of the shorter vegetables (chives, beets, carrots, chard, lettuce, etc.) into this bed, probably in a random vegetable groupings along the length of the wall, i.e alternating with groupings of perennials. Let's arbitrarily say this bed is 3'-4' deep, , ,now,
paralleling this bed I'd plant a 3'-4' promenade of lawn. This grass ribbon,
once it reaches the far end of the wall, would swing out to the left and follow
the outer edge of the slope (at the wood's edge) and swing back to join the start of the wall.

What's with the grass oval, you ask? Well, I agree with Mad Gallica. . .that
ribbon of grass is your first line of defense - most invasives can't tolerate
being constantly mown down. It's just ONE defense, of course; we all know
about the birds and the wind distributing unwanted seeds, but surely this
gardener realizes that only constant vigilance is going to protect them from
weeds and other undesirables. . .

So: we have a 100' long, mixed perennial/vegetable border, backed by a handsome stone wall - I hope your gardener will indulge in just 2 or 3
cascading plants tumbling over the stones from above - but what about
that large, remaining central space? I see meadow, but a very, specific meadow, made up entirely of native grasses, none of them over 4' tall.
In a town near where I live, some open farmland was donated to the community; after all the usual recreation areas had been assigned, the
park designers cleverly set aside three acres and planted mixed grasses.
Then, they mowed pathways in and about this area. which allow you to wander
at will. . .you can clearly see other people moving through this grass meadow,
until they stop to sit on one of the many simple plank benches tucked into the 4' growth, and you disappear from view! It's an enchanting feeling. . .

In similar grass meadows I've seen at North Hill in Vermont, and Paige Dickey's in New York, there ARE occassional random clumps of taller perennials - at North Hill, Joe Eck explained that they initially planted just
ONE silphium perfoliatum as an accent, but today, quite naturally, there are
dozens! Now, mention was made of vining crops - so, how about a long (at
least 20'?) free-standing trellis, on an east/west axis (which would parallel the wall) floating in the middle of this grass meadow, and which would be
by-passed on both sides by one of the many mown paths. . .I wish I knew
how to do sketches on-line, 'cause I'm so afraid some of you may not be following my rambling thought line ! On this extensive trellis, you can grow
cucumbers, melons (really!), pole beans, thornless blackberries, any indeterminate tomato. . .

But, my favorite suggestion involves. . .the stump! Since it would now be surrounded by this grass meadow , why not have one of the random mown pathways "dead-end" at the stump. . .but the stump has disappeared under
a simple 3' high platform (no railings), and the two wicker chairs upon it seem to "float' in a sea of 4' tall grass. From this regal elevation, whilst sipping
tea in the a.m. (or vino in the p.m.), you get to peruse a glorious, 100' long perennial/vegetable bed, backed by the handsome stone wall you so luckily
recovered. . .

Carl

But you do understand you have to mow that meadow. If you let it go a bit, it can't necessarily be done by normal homeowner equipment. It needs something like a bushhog or a farm tractor. That requires either a serious equipment investment, or the regular hiring of someone to do the job. The only 'successful' meadows I see around here are cut about once a month. Once a year, which is a fairly common recommendation, leaves a field full of brambles, red cedar, tree saplings, and other understory succession plants.

Years ago, I downloaded some papers on controlling invasive species from one of the open space conservancy websites. With many of them, the real problem is the persistent seed bank. It isn't nearly enough to just get rid of the existing plants, but there has to be a long-term strategy to control seedlings that can show up as long as ten years later.

Some more rambling thoughts as I read everyone's posts and looked at the pic again.....

First thing I thought of was does she have deer in her area (who doesn't??) and would greatly effect what plantings she chose. Also consider other animals - fox, voles, etc. Second, I see soil erosion an issue right now. I would opt for a mowable ground cover this year and then establish one area at a time. Third, this is in front of her house - does she want to be able to view this from her house? I ask because she already has rather high items on the house side of the wall, blocking the view downward. The further away the area is from the house, the more she would benefit from mass planting of shrubs, grasses, etc. Also needed is 4 season interest, ie conifers for winter interest? A beautiful deciduous tree that has good color spring and fall. I love my Dawn Redwood for that fact alone. Facing north itself can be an issue with winter winds.....The stone wall is so beautiful and should stand on its own all year - I do like the idea of daffies for the color against the stone and maybe some shorter ornamental grasses to then cascade over the daffy foilage as it fades. Peonies would be beautiful.

This is a very labor intensive LARGE area - she needs to think long term in her own physical ability, $$ and availability to hire people as needed. I personally feel it is too far from the house for veggies and the like. Walking up and down the hill alone takes a lot of energy! What if she tripped and broke an ankle? What then would happen to the area?

She's already expended a lot of energy getting rid of the invasives, but it will continue to be a constant battle. While she ponders this area, I would have her take a day and take hourly photos of the area from the house and see what impact the side forest has on shade (the pic show high decidious forest to the East?) I did this for my 'tunnel' and was amazed at the impact it had on areas for amount of sunlight that actually reaches the land. I did it in June and again in mid August.

The most important thing is to scale it so she enjoys the area - not so she is expending every available moment in maintenance cores.

WOW! (that's for you, Carl!) What incredibly creative ideas from all of you -- I have to confess that a floating platform above a sea of ornamental grasses would never, ever have occurred to us! :)

As for the view from the house, I'm not sure of the answer to that. I would think that some of the existing plants at the top (the miscanthus in particular) might end up relocating to the bottom to open up the line of sight from the house a bit, but in general, I think she is more interested in having a beautiful place to putter about in. I do think a small sitting area down there is probably a goal in the end... maybe just large enough for a chair and a little table (for the wine glass!) (I keep seeing that under the wild cherry for some reason ... maybe the concept of some shade on a warm summer afternoon?) She enjoys gardening but does work, so doesn't have unlimited hours to devote to maintenance (hence the low maintenance constraint). I think she is viewing this as something of an adventure that she's planning to take in stages, having fun along the way (the only way to do it, IMHO). "Revealing" that wall is the inspiration to start thinking of all the wonderful things to do with it...

Having said that, she is also an organic gardener/consumer, and I think part of her goal is to have more sun-filled space to grow her own veggies. I actually like the idea of a trellis ... maybe a rustic twig-type design since I know she wants an informal look and feel ... for things to climb. She could also go for a look more like the kitchen gardens at Monticello -- more linear, but with the pole teepees for beans, etc.

Gosh... so many options!

I think I may have set you all to thinking too hard about the invasives (which are primarily the multiflora, but she lives on the same street I do, so I can imagine there is also plenty of other stuff just chomping at the bit to get started in that space. I do think keeping things at bay until she can tackle the lower area is important, so either black plastic for a year (and focusing on the wall area and a bed along there for now), or else a ground cover crop to hold soil and bide time (love the idea of vetch or clover or something that could be turned under next year AND provide tons of nutrients at the same time -- very environmental, non-chemical approach to soil enrichment!) So getting the invasives out because they are invasives was not the incentive here (though that would be a noble one!) ... that just happened to be what had filled in/taken over. Could just as easily have been massively overgrown rhodies or something hiding that wall, but it was multiflora instead. The current concern with not letting them return is as much a practical matter of not wanting to repeat the cost/effort of clearing the area a second time as it is a question of eradicating them for the sake of the natives.

(As for mobility issues in getting down to the lower area to pick veggies, etc. ... this lady referees ice hockey games (adult and youth) every week, plus does yoga. She's a heck of a lot more fit than I am, so getting down to pick things isn't a problem...:)

Thank you all for some fabulous suggestions and some good cautions and caveats. I think the idea of taking photos throughout the day is a good idea, too. She did watch the sun's travel across the area, but it would be good to document it, since I know how surprised I've sometimes been to discover that an area I was sure got partial shade in fact was sitting in full sun all day by mid-summer. And yes, there is deciduous woodland surrounding this area. And plenty of deer! So it's an interesting space with a lot of potential...an adventure it will certainly be!

Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses! Will post photos as this evolves. Would make a very interesting gardening blog...

I really enjoyed reading everyone's ideas and practical thoughts on dealing with invasives. It would seem that this particular space has inspired everyone. :-) I liked the meandering path idea. I like the 'ribbon of grass' idea and the platform with chairs in the meadow, I'd have to add my Wow to that!

I just wanted to mention that the idea of the ribbon of grass could just as easily be used as a ribbon of cover crop. If you could find one that would flower before getting too tall to mow, that would be ideal. Clover does, but not sure what else does. Sounds like you have experience with cover crops already. :-) In the areas that are not mowable, in planted areas, cardboard and mulch works really well for us.

We have never had deer to contend with, but maybe you are used to that? The only sure solution I've ever heard of, was using that tall deer netting.

Good luck, look forward to updates!

Ctlady, congratulations to your friend for getting that space cleared out--I have a strip along the back of my property where the multiflora rose is duking it out with the Oriental bittersweet!
As the spouse of an avid Lawn Lover, I am on the fence about grass. (He is always asking when I'll be done "taking over the lawn!") My impression is that much of the negative publicity around lawns has to do with when they are maintained like golf courses--lots of water, weedkillers, pesticides, and high nitrogen fertilizer. Moreover, while a permanent ground cover is getting established, it needs a LOT of attention, weeding in particular. Grass seed mixed with clover, on the other hand (as it used to be), might be a relatively earth-friendly choice. And this is a matter of my personal taste, but I prefer perennial and mixed borders that are set off by a certain amount of grass, even just enough for a broad pathway. Meadows sound lovely in theory, but keep in mind that long grasses will be attractive to ticks. In any case, as was pointed out, grass could be a short term erosion control planting, and as time permits, more beds could be planted. I like the lasagne gardening/raised bed approach myself--let newspapers and old cardboard boxes do the work of smothering the unwanted vegetation!

There are so many wonderful suggestions given ahead of mine (love that deck among grass!) and, frankly, I'm just an echo. So... here goes..

Don't hide that beautiful wall behind another "wall" of tall perennials or grasses! A serpentine border in front of the wall with plantings of various heights or plantings that creep down from above would help accent its beauty.

It's such a large area that your neighbor might be tempted to plant every single plant she loves, but that would create a jumbled woodsy affect. Instead, she might want to focus on certain colors that she prefers. For example, if she likes purple and yellow , she should look for plants with flowers,leaves or stems in those tones... Eupatorium 'Chocolate', Heliopsis 'Prairie Sunset' (tall), Sedum 'Vera Jamison' and Oenothera fruticosa 'Fireworks' all have purplish leaves or stems and yellow or pale purple flowers. Similar colors that appear over the whole growing season would help to unify the large area and make it look like it all belongs together.

I also agree with those who suggest a "grass" border, especially along the woods, to prevent the forest from creeping in and weeds from establishing themselves.

I think the best advice was for her to consider how she wants to use that area and how much time she wants to spend weeding, prunning, etc. A plan for the area should come first.. then select the right plants.

Molie

Marty, am I missing something or what?
Everybody talking about how beautifull this wall is (and it is beatifull, indeed), but it is visible only from the side where the picture was taken and in no way it could be observed from the opposite site- from the house.
So, please tell me where the major point of view will be: from the house or to the house.
Assuming it's FROM the house, then nice wide (15-20' wide at least) multilayered mixed border consisting of conifers, broadleaf evergreeens and deciduous trees and shrubs is in order. In frontal part of this border could be planted various perennials for the seasonal interest/cutting garden etc. Rest of the space between border and the wall is grass...
... and if it would be me, I would of get rid of anything structural (shrubbery and tall grasses) between house and edge of the wall in order not to obstruct view of my GORGEOUS border. Not so wide border for not so tall perennials along the top edge of the wall is permissible ;-))

P.S. Carl got it all wrong. He wrote '...whilst sipping
tea in the a.m. (or vino in the p.m.), '.
Will be visa versa when all is said and done ;-))

George -- interesting take. You're looking at the space exactly opposite from what she and I were doing, and you're seeing the planting area OPPOSITE the wall, not along it. Curious... and very logical.

You're correct that the wall is NOT visible from the house (the house is above it, the wall is actually a retaining wall, I suspect ... may be all that's keeping the house from sliding down the hill!) All you see from inside the house is the top edge of the wall, and you wouldn't see any plantings along the wall down below until you walked down and around... so in a sense, your suggestion of focusing on the area OPPOSITE and beyond the wall is a logical one, since that's what one would in fact see from the house.

Except that there's only one room with any significant view (windows) overlooking this area, and that's the formal living room, which she rarely uses... so in reality, this area is primarily for her enjoyment, a place to putter in, garden in, etc. You do see the wall (and would see any plantings along it) coming up the street (the house is on the curve of a hill, so as you round the curve you pass the house and would -- briefly at least -- be looking at the wall and the area in front of it.)

Kind of hard to describe, but I think it's safe to say that she isn't thinking in terms of the view from the house (although your suggestions do make complete sense from a garden design perspective), but rather, she wants to maximize this new area she has reclaimed for perennials, veggies, etc. I think filling in the area directly opposite the wall (at the edge of deciduous woods) with mixed conifers is a good long-term goal, not only for the view from the house, but to ease the transition to the untended woods beyond.

I do agree about removing the higher plants (the ornamental grasses and the shrubs) that are currently on the top, and focusing on lower plantings, either cascading over the wall or not, but lower, so you can see beyond them. I think what's there evolved because the lower area (now cleared) was so chock-a-block with the multiflora and other rambling brambly stuff that was in fact higher than the wall itself that the top was the only accessible area to plant ... and it didn't feel like the TOP of a wall, I'm sure, because (a) the wall wasn't visible and (b) the overgrown stuff was so high, you didn't even realize the ground was lower beyond the edge.

Really, the transformation is quite astonishing!

But I must say, I am really intrigued in the way you looked at the photo and immediately saw it from a totally opposite (visually) perspective! I'm going to go down there and stand and look at it with your ideas in mind ... but it's interesting how my first instincts were to plant ALONG the wall, to use it as a backdrop ... I was totally focused on looking AT the wall and never once considered that perhaps the wall should be at my BACK! ;)

But that's what's so great about this forum ... all the perspectives and ideas you get!!