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ejr2005

Looking for a Great Tree

ejr2005
13 years ago

I posted this on the tree forum, but thought I'd try it here.

We're just finishing up adding a new entry and walk to our front yard, and need a "centerpiece" tree. We took down a very large star magnolia that was tall and stubby and though it had gorgeous blooms they only seemed to last for a few days.

We're in Zone 6 but I try to plant for Zone 5. There are several huge oaks nearby so it's fairly shady. The magnolia bloomed great though. It's the north side of the house tilted a bit to the east. We get some morning sun and dappled sun through a lot of the day.

Here are a couple of pics. The tree will be at the top of the hill to the right of the walkway in front of the shrubs that are near the house.

{{gwi:369188}}

{{gwi:369189}}

Ideally I think we'd like a tree that is between 12 and 25 feet tall (though the magnolia we took out was probably 20' tall and felt huge). It could be a maximum of 17' wide before encroaching on the walkways. And it would be great if you could see the shrubs planted behind it - so not too dense and/or leafing out above say 6-8'.

I'm going around in circles on this and would love to hear your thoughts.

Comments (35)

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Love the portico and the entryway. Very nice.

    I'm not sure why you need a tree there at all. The oak serves the purpose of "centerpiece tree" IMO. I would like to see some beefier foundation shrubs with one a bit taller in the gap between the windows, perhaps a a weeping japanese maple.

    maybe a golden full moon maple would be small enough in that forward slot. Maybe think large shrub? I envision tapestry of hostas in the area too.

    just a start. hopefully more creative folk will chime in.

  • Marie Tulin
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think Wendy is onto something. A tree would really bisect that part of the house.

  • bill_ri_z6b
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    IMHO you don't really need another tree, but as others have said a nice shrub as a focal point. Or, what about a nice sculpture, fountain or statue of some kind with an entry garden and small seating area built around it? I see that your yard slopes, but the "patio" could be quite small and charming, and then add a bit of color on the slope which shows up very well from the front of your house. Scattered Astilbe and other shade bloomers would look great. Just another point of view.

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    whats with the side stairway? Other than as a retaining structure, do you really need them still? I am curious how crowded it is at the landing with the shrub that appears to be right there? Is there another path to get to the front door from the top of the stairs?

    I saw your other post in the tree forum. Fwiw, I have Acer Emperor-1 (which I bought because of the late-to-leaf-out and spring-frost reason) and (1) it did get frost damage this year (1st year ever though) and (2) it is way too big for that spot. Mine is at least 15' wide and 15' tall in about 10-12 years. It would totally obscure the front of your beautiful house.

  • spedigrees z4VT
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How about a fruit tree? My personal favorite is flowering crabapple which provides seasonal interest with lovely blooms in spring, green leaves with a hint of bronze all summer and decorated with small red fruit after the leaves have fallen. I have one in front of my house and my neighbor across the road has one in her yard. They are absolutely stunning when in bloom. I don't have a good photo of my own tree, but here's a shot of the one in my neighbor's yard.

    Other possibilities with the same features would include apple and cherry trees. All of these trees are relatively fast growing, and of a manageable height at maturity in the range you mentioned.

  • ejr2005
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow - great comments as I expected.

    The stairs to the right are crumbling - we're going to make them into planters. Don't want to get rid of them because we think they provide some support for the old wall. Will probably plant perennials - hopefully some things that will grow down to cover the ugly wall. And maybe a really small shrub.

    The walkway becomes a half circle at the entry. A patio is a great idea, but I think we're avoiding more hardscape now because of the cost. But maybe a sculpture or fountain - hmmm... I don't normally think of sculpture but was just talking about some gardens I saw here that had sculptures and I thought they looked great.

    We did plant two shrubs between the windows to the right of the entry that will eventually get taller. One is the evergreen Pieris japonica 'Mountain Fire' which is now about 2.5 feet tall and should eventually get to 6'+. We had a Pieris next to the old entry that was huge. I guess they're pretty slow growing though. To the left of it is an Azalea 'Framingham' which should also get taller (to 10' eventually). It's about 3' tall now and is deciduous. It's fragrant and supposedly blooms in mid July.

    The other shrubs to the left and the right are older and probably won't grow much taller. One is a lilac which is very fragrant. The other is a white azalea which is gorgeous when it blooms in May. In front of that back row there are also a PJM Checkmate (4-8' tall eventually, blooms in April) that I'm thinking of bringing to the front of the wall, an unusual Pachysanthum x makinoi cross that I got from the Rhododendrum Society sale at Weston's, and a small Percy Wiseman rhody. The perennials along the wall are just my "holding area" - I'll probably move them to other places.

    My husband unfortunately hates weeping trees. I have told him though in no uncertain terms that I want to get a small red weeping Japanese Maple (maybe 'Tamukeyama') that will "weep" over those big tooth-like rocks.

    We have both a golden and autumn full moon maple as well as an Acer japonicum 'Acontifolium' (also called a full moon maple) in the back and side. I love all of them, though the autumn is new. I was really hoping for red fall color though - everything in the back turns yellow, in part because it's so shady. The Autumn Monn supposedly gets "peach, pink, and flame orange" in the fall so that might work. The 'acontifolium' turns an amazing red-orange day-glo for a couple of weeks in the fall. It's a wonderful tree, as happy as can be on the side of our house, but pretty wild and unkempt looking for the front. Maybe we could limb it up and prune it though. I also have a bit of a problem getting more that one of something - I know not good for garden design... I think all of those trees do get pretty substantial over time.

    Japanese Stewartia - I just got one. Put it in the back because I thought it might get too big for the front (Dirr says 20-40 ft high and wide). Sourwood - I love them when they're small, haven't seen a large one in person, they do get large too (25'-30' high and 20' wide). Styrax - I was looking at Strax obassia (Fragrant Snowbell) but it's also 20-30' high and slightly less wide. Someone also suggested Carolina Silverbell - the smaller 'UConn Wedding Bells' gets to about 20' tall - but I don't know much about it. Our landscaper suggested Sweetbay magnolia - it gets 25-30'. Haven't seen that in person either.

    Wendy - thanks for the info on Acer Emperor. I've had a hard time differentiating the red Acer Palmatums. From the tree forum I guess the Fireglow is smaller. I've seen lots of Bloodgoods around and they seem pretty large.

    Fruit trees - I always thought they needed much more sun than I have. No? My neighbors across the street have a crabapple, but they're facing south.

    Paperbark Maple - we saw a couple but didn't like them I think because the branches started pretty high on the trunk. But maybe that's perfect - something vertical but not wide until it gets above the windows. Great fall color. But probably lots of surface roots. And it does get big - 20-30' high and wide.

    A couple of people on the tree forum recommended the pagoda dogwood. I love the idea but haven't seen one person. I was also thinking of a variegated dogwood (love the "summer fun" at Broken Arrow) but have been warned against them. Have also thought about Cornus kousa (Satomi, Beni Fugi, Autumn Rose), the Rutgers hybrid Stellar Pink (I think someone here said the pink was dissappointing) or maybe the Cornus florida 'Cherokee Brave'.

    Or maybe we don't need a tree - maybe that's why I've been having such a hard time. Maybe we could put a trellis between the windows to give some height until the Pieris and Framingham azalea get taller. We also have an old metal arched structure with a "bench" that could be put in the center. Or a sculpture or fountain. (Just told my husband and he had visions of over the top sculptures as in My Big Fat Greek Wedding).

    I'm also in love with a Japanese maple that only gets 5' tall and 3' wide in 10 years - Acer palmatum 'Tsuma gaki', and we'd have to get it small to afford it. Maybe there's a place for that if we don't do a tree.

    Going around in circles again...

    We do plan on doing lots of ferns, astilbes, hostas, and even day lilies along the road. In fact I started planting them today. I have a gorgeous Earth Angel hosta - about 3' in diameter now and a baby - that I'm thinking about putting on the slope above the "teeth" rocks to the left of the future red weeping maple.

    Thanks again everyone. Sorry I'm so wordy. Any other thoughts are appreciated.

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Re Styrax and Silverbell, both are borderline if you want to be Zone 5 safe. I lost a 4-5 year old H. 'UConn Wedding Bells' winter of 2009. (probably due to that weird december 2008 ice storm).

    another part-shade groundcover weeper option for the edge would be microbiota dessucata. Be sure to check out its winter color though first to be sure you are okay with it. Some like it. Some don't. I can visualize some at the edge of the big teeth rocks with Tamukeyama sitting behind it.

    You are naming so many of my plants its amazing. Cornus Stellar Pink is more beige than pink. I lost it to borers. I don't miss it at all! Cherokee Brave has bad foliage issues some years. I don't recommend it. This is one of those years. Satomi's foliage is pretty good though. Flowers are nice too. Not as colorful as the pictures, but a nice tree. Mine may need to mature some. Not sure about eventual size though for your spot.

    Even though I am not in favor of a 2nd tree for your front, another maple option is a Manchurian maple. Its a cute small green tri-foliate. I have one and it is a real slow grower. I can't remember the fall foliage though. Although in part-shade, you're probably out of luck for great fall color.

    whats wrong with a variegated shrubby dogwood? foliage issues? Maybe there are some resistant kind?

    Planning on pots of something on the front steps. I see two big pots of ferns or maybe hosta.

  • diggerdee zone 6 CT
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    First of all, I wanted to say that your house is lovely! Absolutely charming!

    Secondly, after reading your second post it's obvious you know a lot more about trees than I do, lol, so I won't even bother to suggest any specific trees. However, I do have to say that my very first thought was along the same lines as what Wendy said - I don't think you need a tree in that spot. Perhaps a very low, wide, weeping japanese maple, but otherwise I personally would not put a tree there. I think it would hide too much of the house.

    The sculpture/fountain idea is nice - some kind of focal point in that area but not overpowering.

    Please let us know what you decide and please post more pictures as you plant. It really is a lovely spot.

    :)
    Dee

  • spedigrees z4VT
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I too love your house. It is built on a similar plan to our own house. I really like the look of the multiple stairways, but if the side steps are crumbling, then I imagine they must go. I bet they do add structural integrity to the retaining wall.

    I think that a tree would be nice in that spot, but I might worry about the roots damaging the house's foundation.

    I hadn't thought about sunlight, but I suppose that fruit trees do best in a sunny area. I do have a couple apple trees in the back that are in partial shade, and they are thriving, so I don't know. As Digger said, it sounds like you have plenty of expertise when it comes to trees.

    Please post a photo when your landscaping efforts reach fruition, whether tree or statue or fountain. I'd be interested to see how the steps look as planters too.

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is one of my wild type pagoda dogwoods just as it is coming into bloom.
    {{gwi:465836}}From garden photos 07

    It's a tree I love in all seasons - nice branch structure in winter, flowers for a short time in spring, berries which ripen through red to deep black-purple and their bright red stems remaining after the birds have stripped the berries for late summer, and peachy tones for fall. Mine is multitrunked since it was already growing that way when we moved into the house, but they can be pruned to one trunk and limbed up. In my experience, they grow well in sun or shade this far north, with the shade grown ones less dense. There are a couple of variegated types as well, 'Golden Shadows' AKA Stackman (green & yellow) and 'Argentea' (green and white). I have GS, but wouldn't plant it at your house as the yellow of the leaves wouldn't necessarily show well against your house. It is a very slow grower in my experience (& 'Argentea' may be as well, though I have no experience with it,) while the green-leaved one will reach 5-6 feet in 3 or 4 years where its happy before slowing down. Mine is about 15 feet tall now and doesn't seem to be getting much taller.

    That said, I'm mostly with the posters who suggested not planting a tree (with the exception that having a small tree there would be nice to give mass if something happened to your big maple in the future.) You do have a lovely house and don't want to completely cover it. I would consider a bird bath or some art work. A pretty obelisk with good lines would give interest for the winter and clematis growing on it for the summer. (I noticed Hummingbird Farm has a list of shade-loving clematis that will grow & bloom with 4 hours of sun, and one that will bloom with 2 hours of sun.)

    I also had one other thought: could you put dirt and well placed rocks on your old stairs and use it as a rock garden? Many rock garden plants like good drainage in gravely soil and don't need great depth of soil. If not, you have lots of room for pots of all shapes and sizes- what fun!

  • diggingthedirt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your house and garden are beautiful, ejr2005 - you did a great job on the new path and stairs.

    I'd be careful adding any more strong verticals to this landscape, considering the existing mailbox post, lamp post, old stairs, and the shape of the entry's overhang.

    It does seem like it will be a challenge to disguise the old steps. Could you extend the retaining wall in front of them and plant the resulting "bowl" of soil with something that will engulf the upper part of the stairs?

  • ego45
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Count me in 'no-tree' club, too.
    However tall(ish) shrub with architectural properties may work there.
    For example, I clearly see how, Clethra barbinervis could work there as a nice vertical accent.
    BTW, Stewartia koreana is twice smaller tree than S.japonica.

  • ejr2005
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A few more pics:

    I think one reason we're thinking we need a tree to the right of the house is that we have all these trees to the left of the house. All oaks - we have a veritable tree farm there this year from all the acorns. Also, we're remembering the magnolia and thinking its old spot looks empty.

    Diggingthedirt - maybe we're remembering the old house, but it really seems very horizontal to us. The vertical mailbox will be gone. The light post will probably be there but reincarnated. It's funny that you talked about a "bowl" in front of the steps - that was what we started with but my husband wanted as much snow holding area for the winter as possible.

    They made the step planter boxes today. I wanted something like railroad ties but they didn't think that would work and did bricks. Now I don't know.

    nhbabs - what a great idea - a rock garden in the steps. Wish I had seen your post before!

    The wall is really ugly, but I'm hoping we can find some plants to grow from the bottom up and top down to cover it. Unfortunately it gets very little sun.

    Here's the spot where the tree or something else would be:

    Wendy - I'll have to look up microbiota dessucata - sounds interesting. Thanks for all the tree tips. So maybe Satomi, I'll have to look up Manchurian Maple. Variegated shrubby dogwood - someone on the tree forum said "Resist the urge for showy varigated foliage on one of the c. cornus hybrids or a c. kousa -- IMO they always end up looking a bit tatty." And Ego thought the white variegated one I was interested in -"Samaritan'- would be nice against a dark green background but may not stand out as well otherwise. When we were a Broken Arrow I did notice that the 'Golden Shadows' tree that I had formerly been enamored of did look a bit "tatty."

    spedigrees - I haven't worried about tree roots damaging the house foundation. The old magnolia did not seem to do any damage, and a new one would be in the same place. Probably another reason for a smaller tree. I don't know a lot about trees, but have been doing some research trying to find one that will fit in. But very little practical experience.

    Ego - I'll have to look up Clethra barbinervis. Also check out the Stewartias a bit more.

    Thanks again everyone - great input. And thanks for all your compliments about our house. It started life as a Cape and has had a number of add ons - we call it our Cape-Ranch. It was really hard deciding about the entry - the Cape was designed to not have an entry area and there are very few that seem to have added one sucessfully.

  • spedigrees z4VT
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like the way the planters tie in with the brick work on your new steps, ejr2005. The brick planters look like they have added structural integrity to the wall. Personally I don't think the wall is ugly, but then I like old weathered things.

    Funny, our house is more like a ranch-cape, the opposite of yours as we added a cape-like addition onto the side of our small ranch home. The end result is similar though. I showed your photos to hubby and he too loves your house.

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The planters seem like a good solution. Can you cover the concrete with stone veneer? Something that looks like the stone on the risers. that would tie in everything quite nicely. Although an evergreen vine would be lovely too.

    The empty spot *does* look large from that viewpoint, but seeing the shot from the road view, I am even more convinced there are ample trees to frame the house. The spot still cries out Tamukeyama to me!

  • Thyme2dig NH Zone 5
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am with the folks who vote for no tree. Your house has so much charm and a tree would hide the beauty from both the road as well as from your driveway. Like Wendy said the spot does look much large based on your last photo. But, an obelisk or birdbath with some smaller shrubs might do the trick from your angle when you're up at the house.

    A couple other tree options could be Fringe Tree or Witch Hazel. What about something like a grouping of shrubs like V. carlesii with its nice smell and good fall foliage?

  • claireplymouth z6b coastal MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also think a tree would be too much, but you do need something fairly massive there to balance the existing big tree.

    My first thought was go wide, with a very nice low/prostrate conifer that would almost fill that space but still allow you to see over it.

    My second thought is maybe off the wall, but a large boulder would fit beautifully with the stone work around your new stairs and would draw the eye to the new planting area. Of course you'd have less area to plant in, but you could always sit on the boulder.

    Claire

  • ego45
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like Claire's idea about prostrate conifer and have a perfect candidate: Abies koreana 'Prostrate Beauty'

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Perfect!!!! I want one.

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    uh-oh ... not perfect.. needs full sun.

    then maybe weeping hemlock for you, Abies prostrata for me - LOL

  • runktrun
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    WOW,
    First your home is beautiful and I am with the majority that sees no need for a tree. I think the solid mass of a Abies koreana 'Prostrate Beauty' is the perfect solution, I particularly love how the soft blue would compliment the soft tones of your home.

  • ego45
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Neither shown specimen, nor my own 'Prostrate Beauty' receive more than 3-4 hours of direct morning sun, though they are in the open light shade all the day.
    The real beauty of this 'Beauty' is that silver-blue underside of the foliage will be best displayed if someone will look at it from bottom up....as it would be in this particular case.:-))

    Two minuses:
    -I never seen any cones neither on mine (6-7 y.old), nor on a much older plant shown, despite A. koreana being known for conning at young age,
    -Not that easy to find, especialy as a more or less sizable plant.
    -

  • ejr2005
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow - that 'Prostrate Beauty' is something! The cones are amazing too - I wonder why yours never got any. I'd love to find one. We're also planting to the right of our driveway which I think gets more sun - hmmm.

    When we were planting the back which is south facing I pretty much gave up on evergreens. It seemed that only hemlocks and pines would do well in our shade (Rhodys, Pieris and Kalmia are okay). We did end up with a few Chamaecyparis but they've had a really hard time. Two survived but just have branches on the sunnier side.

    I somehow got off on Japenese maples. Suddenly that spot turned into a Japanese Maple grove. I had a red weeping Tamukeyama above the teeth rock wall to the left, a Japonicum Green Cascade (smaller, hardy, more prostrate) to it's right, the Acontifolium (taller green full moon maple) and Tsuma gaki (small green w/red finger tips) somewhere behind. Then I saw an amazing picture of a JM grove on the gardenweb that had greens, reds and an Autumn Moon so I had to have one of those to add a third color. There were of course a few other "must haves" thrown in for good measure. Then I pulled myself back from the brink. Then I saw another pic on the gardenweb with an Adirondack chair, JM in a pot, and a hosta and thought it was really nice (maybe two chairs). Then my landscaper told me about a giant sundial (I think about 4" ft tall) that he thought would look great there.

    Then I discovered the JM Ryusen which is a "strong pendulous, weeping narrow form of JM" and can weep down 20' x 8' wide in 10 years and becomes red and gold in the fall. So my thoughts turned to hiding the wall. It is really a mess. I like "aged" but you can see the rebar in the cement. So now I'm off on vines and weeping things which I've heretofore known very little about. In addition to Ryusen I'm checking out kiwi vine, chocolate vine, euonymus fortunei, virginia creeper, climbing hydrangea, fiveleaf akebia, wisteria blue moon, sweet autumn clematis, Japanese hydrangea vine...

    wendyb - I tried finding info on microboita dessucata and found very little and nothing showing it's winter color. It looks interesting though.

    ego - the Clethra barbinervis looks really interesting (I'm a sucker for fragrant) but it gets 20' tall and 10-15' wide at 10 years (or so it says). I guess if everyone's thinking we shouldn't have a tree won't that be too tall? I've had Clethra alnifolia in the past and loved it. I put three in the back here about 3 or 4 years ago but they haven't had flowers yet.

    Have to get some rest. I have a rare light day tomorrow and think Westons is having a sale...

    Thanks again everyone. You're ideas are amazing - you're definitely expanding my vision. Someday things will gel...

  • ego45
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Re: Clethra barbinervis.
    It could be grown as a multistemed shrub (in which case HxW will be regulated only by your desire to prune it).
    However, if grown in 1 or 2-3 trunks it may become a very interesting small tree which (with some pruning and training) will look somewhat as a natural bonsai due to unusual pattern of growth: in one growing season it may produce 2-3' tall branchless stem ended with a whorl of leaves, then next year it will start branching from that whorl plus producing another branchless shoot from the top of the whorl. Kind of like umbrella is put on top of another umbrella and so on, so on. If grown in a tree form it has a very airy appearance and whoever I know grow it use it either as a solitary specimen or as a focal point in a mix border.
    Fall color is otstanding, but to get it, it need 3-4 hrs of direct sun at least. If placed in a full sun foliage got burned regardless of amount of water available to the plant. Grow relatively fast at young age, then slows down considerably. Broken Arrow should carry them.

    Re: vines.
    You should decide either you want something hanging from top down or growing from bottom up. Pick either, but not both :-)
    Most of the vines you mentioned are twining vines and would need a support in form of netting or trellisses to climb the wall from the bottom.
    However, Cl.hydrangea (H. anomala ssp. petiolaris) and Schizophragma hydrangeoides are both clinging vines and in your case would be ideal candidates to cover the whole old retainig wall.... before you built planter boxes. Now it's simply not enough surface left for the vines of such magnitude as they are.
    Kiwi vine (Actinidia kolomikta) and Chocolate vine= Fiveleaf akebia (Akebia quinata) will look very unkempt there unless you are ready to do trim work every other week, if not sooner, the whole growing season.
    I resent to comment on virginia creeper, wisteria blue moon and sweet autumn clematis idea. Sorry.

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Weston's has a fairly good picture of microbiota off season color: Microbiota

    do not get euyonmous wintercreeper unless you want something that will eventually take over your street. I spent two years getting rid of mine. It is nice for a few years, then it is evil.

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    and if you are close enough to Weston's, you are probably within target of Russell's. They have awesome plants too.

  • arbo_retum
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ejr, are you in needham near laurel? i have a good friend whose plot and house footprint look pretty much identical to yours.i could tell you her address so you could check her place out; she has a wonderful design sense. given that, i would offer my thoughts but i do need to know if dissectums are out of the picture. we grow 55 j maples and hundreds of trees here at the 'retum that i can reference, but my thoughts will take awhile to write, so i just want to make sure you're still in the 'mulling over' stage.?
    best,
    mindy
    www.cottonarboretum.com/

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's another page that has winter Microbiota foliage at the bottom of the page.

    A loose translation: the foliage is green in summer and takes on a bronze-green tint in autumn.

    A thought about the planter boxes and retaining walls - having some of the same plants for both locations, spilling down over the walls will create some cohesion, and especially will help in breaking up the silhouette of your old stairs. I like the idea of spillers, a combination of evergreen and deciduous, weeping down over the two retaining walls. You might want to even echo some of them over the stone wall on the other side of the driveway to bring it all together.

    It really is a quite lovely house and the work you've done so far with the walkway, regrading and boulders suits both the house and the lot beautifully.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Microbiota in autumn

  • WendyB 5A/MA
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    link fix

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:30726}}

  • ejr2005
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So I went to Weston's and bought up a storm - mostly every kind of fern that they had.

    Ego - thanks for all the info on the Clethra. Hmmm..

    I didn't see your post until afterward and did buy a climbing hydrangea for the wall. Do you think it will really overwhelm it? The person who was helping me and has a climbing hydrangea on a similar wall thought I should get 2. I was wondering if it got really big if I could train it to go around the planting box to get to the other part of the wall that is in much worse condition. Otherwise we will have to get something that grows down. Why were you against having both things that grow down and things that grow up?

    Also, why won't you comment on Virginia creeper or sweet autumn clematis? Someone suggested growing Virginia creeper in a pot to keep it more under control. I saw a beautiful esplanier of American wisteria at Weston's. I know it's supposed to be less aggressive than the Japanese kind, but after battling with my neighbor's wisteria for years, it was too scary.

    What about Boston Ivy? That's also aggressive but I'm thinking it will mainly spread to the driveway.

    Arbo return - About a year ago I spent a wonderful hour or so in your gardens. What a magical place. I loved the way you incorporated the JM's into your mix rather than just having them as stand alone plants. I don't live in Needham, but would love any design help I can get!

    We're definitely still mulling, though I am starting to buy things that I really like. I had Weston's tag both a JM tamukeyama and a pagoda dogwood. I wanted a red JM that would weep over the rocks. Most of the ones I saw were taller. The one at Westons is actually planted. They said they would dig it out when it was cooler. Now I'm wondering if it's a good idea to transplant it at this time of year. We'll probably go back tomorrow to look at them again. My husband is warming up to weeping dissectums a bit. I just think they will look so good with the rocks.

    The pagoda dogwood would probably go to the right of our driveway. So many people have commented about it's being a great tree that I think I have to have one.

    Wendy - I love Russells too. It's closer so easier for me to get there with less time. Thursday I had more time and they had a sale...

    When I was ready to pay at Westons I picked up this lovely plant that was sitting right there on the ground. Checked the tag and it was a Microbiota decussata. Decided that it was fate so it had to come home with me. I think I like the fall color too. Just a matter of figuring out where to put it - maybe to the right of the driveway on the hill. Do you think it could take getting snow blown on it in the winter?

    Also thanks for the tip on euonymus wintercreeper. Could that be the same as 'Emerald Gaiety' or 'Emerald 'n Gold'? We have one of them but it's been planted for 3 or 4 years and has hardly grown. Could be ready to spring though.

    nhbabs - I love you thoughts on the spillers. Not sure how to find such plants. I guess you're not talking about clinging vines. Any suggestions?

    The Westons 25% off on everything sale is on through Sunday if anyone is interested.

    Have to go research ferns to make sure the ones we bought won't take over the world. The one I'm worried about is Hayscent fern.

  • diggingthedirt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know what ego's experience with sweet autumn clematis has been like, but, in my zone, SAC is a monster - nothing to fool around with. I've spent much of the last 3 weekends trying to salvage some favorite trees & climbing roses from this pest. Not sure what zone you're in, but in 6-or-7 it's a real nightmare.

    The planters look great. Is it your intention to put the hydrangeas in the planters themselves? I ask because I suspect that nothing will voluntarily head towards the house, you'll have to be really insistent - and vigilant - if you want to train the stems over the part of the wall near the house. I see now that there's no gap between the wall and the driveway - and I don't think hydrangea wants to climb downward, they want to head towards the light. Other than that, mine do fairly well even with very limited light.

    My comment about strong verticals was based on the second photo, but I realize now that the photo cuts off part of the house, which obscures the even stronger horizontals.

  • Thyme2dig NH Zone 5
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ejr, you are correct to be worried about the hayscented fern. I WOULD NOT plant that fern if I were you. That particular fern is the bane of my existence and takes over everything. It's impossible to pull completely out so I can never get rid of it. If you have an area where you don't plan to plant anything else and it can really take over, then go for it. It actually is a nice, feathery fern. But it doesn't play nice with other perennials. I never planted one, it's just one of those natives that was already here. It tries to take over one of my shade borders, and this stone staircase actually has daylilies all up the right side. You can't see them anymore because of the ferns. I'll be pulling out what I can of the fern tomorrow to try to reveal the daylilies that are really languishing due to the ferns being such brutes. It's one of those garden chores I do a couple times a season and I curse the fern on each pull! LOL!

  • ego45
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Why were you against having both things that grow down and things that grow up? "

    You'll have a 'pruning nightmare' in a future.

    Re: SAC/Virginia creeper. Ditto to DTD experience.

  • ejr2005
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OMG thyme2dig that's gorgeous! Too bad the ferns are taking over - the whole scene looks beautiful as it is. I did return the hayscented fern today. The woman at the counter thought it was so nice she was going to take it home. I guess I gave her a look and she said she had lots of room for it to run. I have Ostrich fern in the back that is a little too happy. From what you said, I'm wondering if I should start pulling it now!

    So I returned one fern and bought about 10 more - Branford Rambler, Lady Fern, Lady in Red, Ghost, Japanese Painted, Dryopteris marginalis, and Dryopteris Filix-Mas 'Parsley'. The Painted ferns will go along the bottom of the stone wall, the Ghost may go in the back, and I'm not sure what to do with the Parsleys. Most of the others will go around the big Oak tree. Hopefully they will be a bit more restrained than Hayscented fern.

    digging - thanks for the heads up on SAC. I had one at another house and it did very little of anything. The climbing hydrangea will be planted in the ground in front of the retaining wall. I'm thinking it will spread out horizontally like the ones I have in the back. We'll see.

    I'm trying to avoid planting anything in the boxes that will have giant root systems, and am thinking the Hydrangea will eventually. I'm waiting until know what "spillers" to plant before I do anything in the boxes. I do have a nifty hosta that should peek over the wall. If there's room, I'd also like to put in a couple of plants that I have that spread by runners - hopefully the boxes will keep them in check.

    It's funny - I was pretty oblivious to the verticals around the house before you said that because the house was so horizontal. Now that the house has changed, I have to reorient my main design focus.

    Ego - thank you - I never would have thought of that since I haven't had to do much pruning - yet. VC is off the list. What about Boston Ivy?

    We brought home the Pagoda Dogwood, and decided to wait until the fall to have them dig out the Tamukeyama. We found another similar one in a container that was pretty nice and we could have taken it home then with 25% off. But I'm still partial to the first - it has a neat crook in it's trunk - and we'd probably spend more than the 25% watering it over the summer!

    Here's a picture:

    I'm still dreaming about a JM garden. I was looking at my Acontifolium and thinking one might work in the front, especially more limbed up. Both my husband and I adore it.

    Here are pictures of the one we have. The first one is now - it's hard to see because of the Oak behind:

    Here's it in the fall:

    I tried to get my husband to look at the fountains, etc. at Westons but he couldn't handle it and I didn't see anything I really liked. In part it's just a whole new concept for us. I also tried to chairs in the front space - it was way too crowded. Maybe a bench would work.

    Thanks to everyone. You've all been very patient with my obsessions. After we're done planting I hope to have more time - and more knowledge - to contribute to this forum. You've been great.